HP Forum Archive 21

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[WP 34s] Polar & Rectangular Number Display Message #1 Posted by Jeff O. on 11 Jan 2013, 12:40 p.m. Perhaps you anticipated this request also, so I will go ahead and ask :-) Could the new Complex number display mode be extended or leveraged to provide a similar display upon execution of ->R and ->P? For ->R, I think it would be OK to show it exactly as the existing Complex display, i.e. with the preceding "i". Two-component rectangular form combinations do not always represent a complex number, but I think most users would understand what it means if they were working with a vector for example. For ->P, replace the "i" with the "<" symbol (or a narrower version of the theta symbol) to indicate that it is an angle. If possible, a new PVIEW (Polar VIEW) command would be nice to invoke this display from a program. Apologies if the above is a bad idea.

Re: [WP 34s] Polar & Rectangular Number Display Message #2 Posted by Walter B on 11 Jan 2013, 3:36 p.m., in response to message #1 by Jeff O. We've feared that idea coming ;-) First the easy part of the answer: There won't be a PVIEW since there is no elevated P in our character set :-) With respect to >POL and >REC, there is no data type 'rectangular' nor 'polar' in the WP 34S - the meaning of x and y may change with the next keystroke. So if you want to see x and y at once you can do using CVIEW - then imagine the upper value in whatever meaning or unit you like. I don't think putting another character in front of the upper value will change anything beyond helping a poor imagination ;-) Thus I don't assess such a second modified VIEW being beneficial. YMMV. d:-)

Re: [WP 34s] Polar & Rectangular Number Display Message #3 Posted by Jeff O. on 11 Jan 2013, 4:16 p.m., in response to message #2 by Walter B Quote: We've feared that idea coming ;-) No need to fear anything that I suggest. I just present things that seem like good ideas to me. If they find purchase, great, if not, so be it, at least I took a shot. Quote: There won't be a PVIEW since there is no elevated P in our character set ;-) No problem, PVIEW or /VIEW or [theta]VIEW would be fine :-) Quote: With respect to >POL and >REC, there is no data type 'rectangular' nor 'polar' in the WP 34S... I do not believe that my suggested displayed mode depends upon such data types. After all, there is no complex data type either. I merely propose to extend the concept already established with the complex display upon execution of a complex function. In that case, one expects a complex value to be returned which is represented by new values in both the x and y registers. The new display mode acknowledges such and displays the imaginary component in the dot-matrix area, to reinforce that you have indeed gotten a complex result, and provide a preview of the imaginary value. Both the >POL and >REC functions also result in new values in both the x and y registers, so I seek similar confirmation and preview of results. I would find it beneficial, but acknowledge that I may be a minority of one.

Re: [WP 34s] Polar & Rectangular Number Display Message #4 Posted by Walter B on 11 Jan 2013, 4:40 p.m., in response to message #3 by Jeff O. Quote: Both the >POL and >REC functions also result in new values in both the x and y registers, so I seek similar confirmation and preview of results. Hmmh, so do X_BAR, S, SERR, L.R., sigma, epsilon, etc., etc. Do you want "confirmation and preview of results" for all those as well? What about the commands loading X, Y, and Z then? d:-?

Re: [WP 34s] Polar & Rectangular Number Display Message #5 Posted by Harald on 11 Jan 2013, 5:30 p.m., in response to message #4 by Walter B Hmm, as much as I like the "i" being displayed after a complex operation, maybe it would be better to replace that by "y:" and simply show the contents of the y register whenever a function has alter both x and y register. I'll be kicking my self if you take this suggestion on board, because to me complex numbers are what matters most....

Re: [WP 34s] Polar & Rectangular Number Display Message #6 Posted by Jeff O. on 11 Jan 2013, 7:06 p.m., in response to message #4 by Walter B Quote: Hmmh, so do X_BAR, S, SERR, L.R., sigma, epsilon, etc., etc. Do you want "confirmation and preview of results" for all those as well? What about the commands loading X, Y, and Z then? No, all I want is the requested display for >REC and >POL :-)

Re: [WP 34s] Polar & Rectangular Number Display Message #7 Posted by Walter B on 12 Jan 2013, 1:06 a.m., in response to message #6 by Jeff O. Quote: No, all I want is the requested display for >REC and >POL :-) OK, I understand better now what you want. Three points: Please read what Pauli wrote below. In a program, CVIEW will do what you requested (almost - but at *no* extra cost). In manual mode, x<>y is faster than anything else. It all boils down to the fact the WP 34S is no HP-42S nor HP-17bII Silver - it features an 1.5-line display, and 1.5 < 2. As I wrote more than once from the very beginning of this project: this breathtaking display is the limiting factor. d:-( Edit: How about "confirmation and preview of results" in an HP-41CX or an HP-15C? You can trust your WP 34S :-) Edited: 12 Jan 2013, 1:12 a.m.

Re: [WP 34s] Polar & Rectangular Number Display Message #8 Posted by Jeff O. on 15 Jan 2013, 9:09 a.m., in response to message #7 by Walter B Walter, I do not wish to beat a dead horse* here, I accept that you and Pauli see no great value in my proposed polar and rectangular display modes, so am not asking for further consideration. But I do want make another point or two. Regarding providing the two-line display for Complex, Polar to Rectangular and Rectangular to Polar results but not all of the other instances you listed where both x and y are modified by a function: I feel that those three instances rise above the others because the two components taken together form one mathematical entity. So it is appropriate to show both components upon execution. (I did not review all other cases which return results to the x and y stack levels, so perhaps this line of reasoning applies to other cases as well.) Quote: As I wrote more than once from the very beginning of this project: this breathtaking display is the limiting factor. Agreed, the display is very limiting, and you and Pauli and Marcus have probably squeezed as much out of it as is possible. But I will defend the display a little. Given the 400 element limit imposed by the hardware (as I understand things), it is about as good as could be done. Look at all the WP34s team has accomplished with it, after all. Quote: How about "confirmation and preview of results" in an HP-41CX or an HP-15C? You can trust your WP 34S I hope there is not a misunderstanding with my use of the word “confirmation”, but just in case, I will clarify. I meant that it would provide confirmation of what you just did, i.e., that you just performed a >POL or >REC and now have such a result in stack x and y. I did not mean to imply that I needed confirmation that my WP34s had acted correctly. I trust my WP34s. Thanks for listening. Jeff * - I in no way advocate the beating of any animal, live or dead. I believe that this English language idiom has been discussed previously in this Forum. It is just a short way of saying “here comes more discussion on something that has already been discussed a lot and everyone is probably tired of hearing about.” ...

Re: [WP 34s] Polar & Rectangular Number Display Message #9 Posted by Paul Dale on 11 Jan 2013, 7:10 p.m., in response to message #1 by Jeff O. Implementation wise, it is easy -- just set a status bit and the complex result display is enabled. Changing the 'i' to something else or removing it entirely is also straightforward -- making it change based on the function is more troublesome but would be possible. Of course any such change will increase code size and memory is rather limited. The question would be which functions should display the y register. Complex functions clearly benefit from this and the code to set the status bit is common to all of them -- in fact it was done already to show the 'C'. There are many others that might but are they worth the code space? As for the actual display, 'i' is very good here because of its width, 'y' is wider, theta wider again. There are only 43 pixels to play with in the dot matrix portion of the display so this is an important consideration. The more pixels dedicated to the leading identifier the less for the important numeric part -- with the current implementation, it is possible for the number of displayed mantissa digits to go down to just two with a wider initial letter, this could become just one. - Pauli

Re: [WP 34s] Polar & Rectangular Number Display Message #10 Posted by fhub on 12 Jan 2013, 5:08 a.m., in response to message #9 by Paul Dale Quote: The question would be which functions should display the y register. The simplest and most general method would certainly be to just introduce a new user-mode setting (something like 'DispXY') which would _always_ display the Y register in the alpha line (of course only when no other infos like menus, shifted-key annunciators etc. are needed). With this method the user could decide if (and when) he wants this display, and you could even omit the 'i' for complex results (leaving a bit more place for the number). Franz

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