HP Forum Archive 21

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This is not the yellow press ... Message #1 Posted by Walter B on 12 Dec 2012, 8:56 a.m. ... thus it's not sufficient to read the headline ;-) Hi all, Up to now, we asked you for your kind opinion about four topics: you voted for the color of the keyplate, the order of the arithmetic operators, the format of menu labels, and (at the very beginning) for the location of the arithmetic operators. There are, however, some forum members who keep claiming that first poll was not fair - opinions deviate about why they do so. Meanwhile, a number of good reasons were posted for putting the arithmetic keys on either side. Anyway, to settle that dispute, I want to call you for your vote once more. Sorry for the repetition, but it’s apparently the easiest way. The boundary conditions (per your votes as potential customers and per our decisions as developers) are as follow: The keyplate will be black. The arithmetic operators will be / * - + top down. The menu labels will be printed underlined. The fourth row of keys (counted from top) will contain ENTER, x<>y, +/-, EEX, and <- from left to right. ENTER will be double width. These conditions are non-negotiable. Don’t participate in this poll if you don’t accept them. Now, do you want the primary labels on the bottom four rows of keys look like Please vote! This poll will close on Monday, December 17th, at 12:12 UTC. d:-) Edit: P.S.: Watch it! There's an additional option c specified further below in this thread you should consider. Edited: 12 Dec 2012, 4:58 p.m. after one or more responses were posted

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #2 Posted by Andreas Grund on 12 Dec 2012, 9:04 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Walter, Version "b" please! Andreas

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #3 Posted by fhub on 12 Dec 2012, 9:09 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B I vote for "b"! And I would recommend to change the message header so that it's clearly recognizable as a poll, else you'll certainly get some complaints again. ;-) Edit: I see a few other differences between layouts "a" and "b", e.g. there's a yellow 'STATUS' in "b" which is missing in "a"!? And the yellow 'SHOW' at the multiplication is misplaced IMO, you should better put the factorial (!) there (as in layout "a"). Franz Edited: 12 Dec 2012, 11:08 a.m. after one or more responses were posted

About some secondary functions Message #4 Posted by Walter B on 12 Dec 2012, 5:09 p.m., in response to message #3 by fhub Quote: ... there's a yellow 'STATUS' in "b" which is missing in "a"!? There's a blue 'STATUS' in "a" :-) Quote: And the yellow 'SHOW' at the multiplication is misplaced IMO, you should better put the factorial (!) there (as in layout "a"). IMO the factorial shall be placed next to 'PROB'. But be assured, this layout will change more than once until a 43S will see you. d:-)

Re: About some secondary functions Message #5 Posted by fhub on 12 Dec 2012, 5:30 p.m., in response to message #4 by Walter B Quote: IMO the factorial shall be placed next to 'PROB'. But be assured, this layout will change more than once until a 43S will see you. d:-) Well, my main concern was not about factorial but rather about the SHOW, such a command just doesn't fit to an arithmetic key. But as you said, this will change dozens of times, because everyone has his own layout preferences. ;-) Franz

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #6 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 12 Dec 2012, 9:13 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B :a ;^)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #7 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 12 Dec 2012, 9:25 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Option b. Thanks for opening the poll again, I missed the previous poll deadline due to a >100% workload in the last month. A domestic note: the blue label under the "8" key in option "a" or under the "9" key in option b is kind of a "four letter word" here and possibly in other spanish-speaking countries. Yes, there have been endless (and boring) jokes with orthogonality and also about some chemical compounds. It may be good if an alternative name could be considered, or at least another abbreviation (something like ORTH or ORTHG, which will be slighty better). By the way, what functions will belong to that menu? Best regards Andrés PS: The "boundary conditions" for the poll are excellent choices in my opinion.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #8 Posted by Walter B on 12 Dec 2012, 9:51 a.m., in response to message #7 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) Ola Andrés, Thanks for your information. The menu you mentioned shall contain the orthogonal polynomials (as they are shown on p. 207 of the WP 34S manual). Any better choice for naming the menu is appreciated. I guess a reverted T will not be a good alternative ;-) d:-)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #9 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 12 Dec 2012, 12:18 p.m., in response to message #8 by Walter B An inverted "T" looks fine enough for me and, as we already have a "paralell" symbol in the WP34S, seems rather natural in the end. A 3D perspective of the intersection of three orthogonal lines may also be quite intriguing for newcomers but clear enough for the people "in the know".

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #10 Posted by M. Joury on 12 Dec 2012, 10:14 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B A

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #11 Posted by Neil Hamilton (Ottawa) on 12 Dec 2012, 10:27 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B B Every time I pick up my -25 I have to 'relearn' the left side keys. I guess I have moved on... Cheers...

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #12 Posted by Namir on 12 Dec 2012, 10:39 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B I vote for: A

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #13 Posted by Mark Storkamp on 12 Dec 2012, 10:42 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Option B

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #14 Posted by Thomas Ritschel on 12 Dec 2012, 11:04 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B I vote for option "b". Thomas

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #15 Posted by René Franquinet on 12 Dec 2012, 11:05 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B B would be my favourite.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #16 Posted by Harald on 12 Dec 2012, 11:17 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Option b, arithmetic keys on the right in the order / * - + from top to bottom please.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #17 Posted by Walter B on 12 Dec 2012, 12:51 p.m., in response to message #16 by Harald Reading must be difficult :-?

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #18 Posted by Harald on 12 Dec 2012, 5:05 p.m., in response to message #17 by Walter B I just thought it would be my turn to add to the confusion now ;) Option B please! Better? :)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #19 Posted by Alex Mark (Greece) on 12 Dec 2012, 11:19 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B B

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #20 Posted by Miguel Toro on 12 Dec 2012, 11:21 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Hello Walter, I missed the other polls. I vote for B. Thanks and regards, Miguel

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #21 Posted by Hans Holzach on 12 Dec 2012, 11:46 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B B, please!

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #22 Posted by Lyuka on 12 Dec 2012, 11:53 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Hi Walter, I am afraid that 'On' key probably is not relocatable since it is physically connected to the 'FWUP' pin. Regards, Lyuka

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #23 Posted by Harald on 12 Dec 2012, 12:01 p.m., in response to message #22 by Lyuka This isn't about the HP30B hardware. This is for a completely new hardware.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #24 Posted by Lyuka on 12 Dec 2012, 12:21 p.m., in response to message #23 by Harald Thanks Harald. Then, I'll vote for 'B' :-)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #25 Posted by Walter B on 12 Dec 2012, 12:34 p.m., in response to message #24 by Lyuka Quote: Then, I'll vote for 'B' :-) That is unsurpassed logic! ;-) (emphasis added)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #26 Posted by BruceH on 12 Dec 2012, 2:19 p.m., in response to message #23 by Harald Quote: This isn't about the HP30B hardware. This is for a completely new hardware. In that case: Why have the digits in the middle of the keypad? An option C would be to have XEQ etc in column 1, the arithmetic operators in column 2 and the digits all shifted one column to the right of where they are now. Change the ON/OFF key so it is [shift]+[ON] to turn on; [OFF] to turn off. That way there is less chance of the calculator being accidentally turned on and draining the batteries whilst in a backpack or bag

ATTENTION: Option C described here! Message #27 Posted by Walter B on 12 Dec 2012, 3:14 p.m., in response to message #26 by BruceH Quote: An option C would be to have XEQ etc in column 1, the arithmetic operators in column 2 and the digits all shifted one column to the right of where they are now. Thanks for bringing in that idea. Can be done as well. The poll is young enough to let this option C compete. Whoever wants to change his vote, please don't forget to delete your old vote in this course. Thanks in advance. d:-)

About a shifted ON and unshifted OFF Message #28 Posted by Walter B on 12 Dec 2012, 3:20 p.m., in response to message #26 by BruceH Quote: Change the ON/OFF key so it is [shift]+[ON] to turn on; [OFF] to turn off. That way there is less chance of the calculator being accidentally turned on and draining the batteries whilst in a backpack or bag Thankyou also for that idea. We'll think about a shifted ON. An unshifted OFF, however, would cost one primary location - I don't think that pays. We can easily have both functions shifted IMO. d:-)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #29 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 12 Dec 2012, 3:49 p.m., in response to message #26 by BruceH Quote: That way there is less chance of the calculator being accidentally turned on and draining the batteries whilst in a backpack or bag Absolutely not necessary, IMHO. In most calculators the ON key has a lower profile, exactly to avoid such situation. Furthermore, in the unlikely event of the calculator being accidentally turned on the auto shut-off feature will handle that pretty well. A shifted ON key is a needless inconvenience, again IMHO. (I am a bit Uriah-Heepish today :-)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #30 Posted by BruceH on 12 Dec 2012, 6:53 p.m., in response to message #29 by Gerson W. Barbosa I like the idea of shift+on / shift+off as a toggle on the same key. If so then its profile should be the same as other keys so that the its primary function is not interfered with.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #31 Posted by Egan Ford on 12 Dec 2012, 12:12 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B "B" OTOH, my vote is also for sale, contact me privately before the 17th. :-)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #32 Posted by Richard Ottosen (Denver, CO, USA) on 12 Dec 2012, 5:05 p.m., in response to message #31 by Egan Ford Would a free calculator with the keys, where they belong, on the left be sufficient? ;-) -- Richard Oops. This was supposed to be private...

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #33 Posted by Mark Hardman on 12 Dec 2012, 12:21 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Option B please.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #34 Posted by Basil on 12 Dec 2012, 12:29 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B B

Option b: Arith. keys on the right Message #35 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 12 Dec 2012, 1:29 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Here again for title-unawares: Option b: Arith. keys on the right Edited: 12 Dec 2012, 1:32 p.m.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #36 Posted by Silvio A. Bensi on 12 Dec 2012, 1:41 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B B

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #37 Posted by Ethan Conner on 12 Dec 2012, 1:46 p.m., in response to message #36 by Silvio A. Bensi B please

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #38 Posted by Juergen Keller on 12 Dec 2012, 2:39 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B :b

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #39 Posted by David Hayden on 12 Dec 2012, 2:51 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B "A" because I think the ENTER key and arithmetic keys should be together. Dave

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #40 Posted by Mike Morrow on 12 Dec 2012, 3:00 p.m., in response to message #39 by David Hayden Quote: "A" because I think the ENTER key and arithmetic keys should be together. That's the only logical arrangement, so I also agree that only option A makes sense. I don't need to look at or consider any other aspects of these two selections. Edited: 12 Dec 2012, 3:01 p.m.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #41 Posted by Michael Kussmaul on 12 Dec 2012, 2:52 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B b please Looks great so far!

Revised poll on arith. keys Message #42 Posted by Cristian Arezzini on 12 Dec 2012, 2:58 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B I'll vote for option B... thanks for reopening the poll. Cristian

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #43 Posted by Jim Creybohm on 12 Dec 2012, 3:04 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Option A please. (Although there seem to be valid arguments for both!)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #44 Posted by Geoff Quickfall on 12 Dec 2012, 4:24 p.m., in response to message #43 by Jim Creybohm "B" So there!

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #45 Posted by Ethan Conner on 12 Dec 2012, 4:35 p.m., in response to message #43 by Jim Creybohm I laugh when i see people who voted with some statement of emphasis,reason,logic(in their eyes),italics or exclamation point. As if this makes their vote count for more. Lol Never saw a ballot in my life that contained any of these things.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #46 Posted by Geoff Quickfall on 12 Dec 2012, 5:28 p.m., in response to message #45 by Ethan Conner Ethan I think some are just adding a smile to the poll. It does not seem that the designers want an essay on the reason, just an A or B pick. I have reasons, but the exclamation mark suffices! Geoff ! :-) Edited: 12 Dec 2012, 5:32 p.m.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #47 Posted by Ángel Martin on 12 Dec 2012, 4:37 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B still the same as last time: ¨¨ A ¨¨ cheers, ÁM

b Message #48 Posted by Maximilian Hohmann on 12 Dec 2012, 4:42 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B b

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #49 Posted by Richard Ottosen (Denver, CO, USA) on 12 Dec 2012, 5:07 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Version _A_. -- Richard

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #50 Posted by Mark Scheuern on 12 Dec 2012, 6:32 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B My vote: A

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #51 Posted by Quan on 12 Dec 2012, 6:37 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Option B

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #52 Posted by Monte Dalrymple on 12 Dec 2012, 7:07 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B A

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #53 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 12 Dec 2012, 7:12 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B B

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #54 Posted by Paul Dale on 12 Dec 2012, 7:16 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B B here. I didn't vote deliberately last time due to not having a strong opinion either way. Since I've been looking more about how I use my 34S and 41CL. The number of times I've gone lower left for on on the CL is embarrassing. - Pauli

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #55 Posted by Dave Johnson on 12 Dec 2012, 7:46 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B AAAAAAAAA Please!

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #56 Posted by David Griffith on 12 Dec 2012, 8:44 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B B

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #57 Posted by JimP on 12 Dec 2012, 9:37 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B B please

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #58 Posted by Calum Tait on 12 Dec 2012, 9:44 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Option B.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #59 Posted by Forrest Switzer on 12 Dec 2012, 11:28 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B No Vote.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #60 Posted by cdtmbu on 13 Dec 2012, 1:06 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B I am used to it, so I vote for B

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #61 Posted by Eric Smith on 13 Dec 2012, 1:35 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B A

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #62 Posted by Morten Nygaard Ĺsnes on 13 Dec 2012, 2:08 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Option B

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #63 Posted by sjthomas on 13 Dec 2012, 2:45 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B B

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #64 Posted by Derek Walker (UK) on 13 Dec 2012, 3:20 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Option B. I voted for 'same side as [enter]' in the original poll, but I've realised that all my regular use HPs (15CLE, 35s, 50g) have operators on the right.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #65 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 13 Dec 2012, 3:05 p.m., in response to message #64 by Derek Walker (UK) Welcome to the bright side! :-)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #66 Posted by Derek Walker (UK) on 14 Dec 2012, 6:19 a.m., in response to message #65 by Gerson W. Barbosa It's not just the HPs either - all the algebraics in my desk have operators on the right side too, some in a line, some in a square. I think probably the only left-side calc I have is a 41CV inherited from a retiring colleague but sadly not in working order. So, too hard to readjust now, despite the logic of left-side keys being close to [enter]!

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #67 Posted by Herman T on 13 Dec 2012, 4:39 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B B

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #68 Posted by Reth on 13 Dec 2012, 5:44 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B b of course, b and thank you for following my suggestion to put them next to each other Edited: 13 Dec 2012, 5:49 a.m.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #69 Posted by Bill Carter on 13 Dec 2012, 8:57 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B B

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #70 Posted by Dave Shaffer (Arizona) on 13 Dec 2012, 12:16 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B A (but I fear us A types are being outvoted by the B types)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #71 Posted by Walter B on 13 Dec 2012, 12:21 p.m., in response to message #70 by Dave Shaffer (Arizona) Don't be afraid. The only option I guess is really outvoted by now is option C. But this poll runs less than half a day now, and there are four to come. d:-)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #72 Posted by brian di on 13 Dec 2012, 10:32 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B I vote for A.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #73 Posted by james summers on 14 Dec 2012, 3:00 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Option B for me!

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #74 Posted by Bernd Grubert on 14 Dec 2012, 3:57 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Walter, I vote for option A as on the HP 41 CV. Regards Bernd

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #75 Posted by Ivan Nejgebauer on 14 Dec 2012, 7:34 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B I've never had a problem with arithmetic-keys-on-the-left models, but still prefer B

Counts after 24h Message #76 Posted by Walter B on 14 Dec 2012, 9:01 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B There are 15 votes for option a, 37 votes for option b, and 1 vote for option c so far if I counted correctly. So let the poll continue. d:-)

(deleted post) Message #77 Posted by deleted on 14 Dec 2012, 10:17 a.m., in response to message #76 by Walter B This Message was deleted. This empty message preserves the threading when a post with followup(s) is deleted. If all followups have been removed, the original poster may delete this post again to make this placeholder disappear.

Re: Counts after 24h Message #78 Posted by Ethan Conner on 14 Dec 2012, 11:33 a.m., in response to message #77 by deleted Now we have people "stuffing" the ballot box.

Re: Counts after 24h Message #79 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 14 Dec 2012, 1:39 p.m., in response to message #78 by Ethan Conner That would have happened on most other lists, but not on this :-).

Re: Counts after 24h Message #80 Posted by Walter B on 14 Dec 2012, 12:14 p.m., in response to message #77 by deleted One man, one vote, please! Thomas, please delete your excess vote - which ever you prefer ;-) d:-)

Re: Counts after 24h Message #81 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 14 Dec 2012, 1:32 p.m., in response to message #80 by Walter B Quote: One man, one vote, please! I impossibly could have known this! Quote: Thomas, please delete your excess vote - which ever you prefer ;-) I did, and it was a hard decision you talked me into. ;^)

Re: Counts after 24h Message #82 Posted by Walter B on 14 Dec 2012, 2:41 p.m., in response to message #81 by Thomas Radtke Quote: I did, and it was a hard decision you talked me into. But you made it! We are all proud of you. d;-)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #83 Posted by Steve Perkins on 14 Dec 2012, 3:16 p.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Option B.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #84 Posted by Mike Hein on 15 Dec 2012, 12:00 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B b

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #85 Posted by Bruno Férard on 15 Dec 2012, 10:44 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B B without hesitation

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #86 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 15 Dec 2012, 11:09 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B My vote goes to B A remark to ENTER being close to the arithmetic keys: In a chain calculation, due to automatic stack lift, ENTER isn't used very often. At least on the 34S, Enter has more uses then lifting the stack, so having it standing out is still a good idea, but the proximity to the arithmetic operators is of less importance to me. Shifted ON might be a serious problem for the hardware developers because ON is typically wired to a special input and not to the keyboard matrix. Thus, the shift key would need to trigger the hardware ON function and the software would wake up in a stealth state waiting for a timely press of the ON key. Edited: 15 Dec 2012, 11:09 a.m.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #87 Posted by JDonley on 15 Dec 2012, 11:26 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B B please.

Just a little more than 2h to go! (n.t.) Message #88 Posted by Walter B on 17 Dec 2012, 4:53 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B d:-)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #89 Posted by Luiz C. Vieira (Brazil) on 17 Dec 2012, 6:53 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Hi. For the sake of the existing, successful handheld calculators: B And for the sake of the outstanding efforts of yours and Paul's in giving us a second choice for a custom handheld calculator: THANKS! Cheers. Luiz (Brazil)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #90 Posted by Bart (UK) on 17 Dec 2012, 7:13 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B Voting boycotted due to the deliberate use of a non-descriptive subject heading.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #91 Posted by Walter B on 17 Dec 2012, 7:28 a.m., in response to message #90 by Bart (UK) Nice excuse for being late ;-)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #92 Posted by Bart (UK) on 17 Dec 2012, 7:59 a.m., in response to message #91 by Walter B Quote: Nice excuse for being late ;-) By 1 minute? Could I not have typed one letter faster and been on time?

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #93 Posted by Walter B on 17 Dec 2012, 8:28 a.m., in response to message #92 by Bart (UK) Quote: Could I not have typed one letter faster and been on time? Fore sure you could (irrealis) but you didn't. You can use your sentence for teaching grammar ;-)

Re: This is not the yellow press ... -- Actually it IS Message #94 Posted by Bart (UK) on 17 Dec 2012, 10:01 a.m., in response to message #93 by Walter B Hmmm, the curtness of my reply may cause it to loose it's intended meaning: i.e. if I was answering the poll in the last minute, then had I typed a single letter answer (a, b or c) I could have been on time. Quote: ...but you didn't. Good word choice and emphasis, exactly right as it denotes an act of will. I wanted to be not on time. I typed my sentence and waited until 1 minute after the poll closed. Your smilies do not amuse me in this instance. There are times to be joking and times to be serious. It is obvious you expected serious consideration and answers to your poll. Then you should have seriously considered previous requests to make the subject of the poll clear in the subject heading of the thread. Further: your headline was exactly designed for attention grabbing - yet so non-specific that those not interested in the polls would be obliged to read it to see if it contained anything of interest. So actually it is exactly yellow journalism after all. You possibly intended it that way, which leads to my next point... People from all over the world visit here, you cannot expect them to understand the expressions associated with particular cultures. They may see it as a rogue posting or something completely OT to calculators and give it a miss altogether. Edited: 17 Dec 2012, 10:03 a.m.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... -- Actually it IS Message #95 Posted by Walter B on 17 Dec 2012, 10:22 a.m., in response to message #94 by Bart (UK) Oh come on! Last thread somebody was complaining because the subject was mentioning it's a poll, now you're complaining because it's not mentioning it. I simply can't please everybody :-/

Re: This is not the yellow press ... -- Actually it IS Message #96 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 17 Dec 2012, 12:33 p.m., in response to message #95 by Walter B Quote: Last thread somebody was complaining because the subject was mentioning it's a poll, That sound rather unbelievable. Could you post a link to that complaint? Quote: now you're complaining because it's not mentioning it. I simply can't please everybody :-/ What's wrong with descriptive titles?

Re: This is not the yellow press ... -- Actually it IS Message #97 Posted by Bart (UK) on 18 Dec 2012, 9:45 a.m., in response to message #95 by Walter B As far as I recall the complaint was that it only mentioned that it was a poll, and that it was not clear what the poll was about. There have been numerous requests to make the subject heading clearer, i.e. that it is a poll and as to what the poll is about. Your poll on the most popular functions is an example of a better subject line. We now know what it's about, but when considering a new project you could add a statement like "new calculator" to that subject line. And last but not least - thank you for re-polling the arithmetic operator key issue.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #98 Posted by Reth on 17 Dec 2012, 2:40 p.m., in response to message #90 by Bart (UK) So you couldn't figure out what was the poll about? If that's the case you should not vote anyway. And stop teaching us english, please.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #99 Posted by Bart (UK) on 18 Dec 2012, 9:25 a.m., in response to message #98 by Reth Quote: So you couldn't figure out what was the poll about? If that's the case you should not vote anyway. And stop teaching us english, please. You obviously didn't get my drift. It seems like you need those English lessons.

Re: This is not the yellow press ... Message #100 Posted by Reth on 18 Dec 2012, 9:27 p.m., in response to message #99 by Bart (UK) Quote: It seems like you need those English lessons. From you? No, thanks.

Poll results Message #101 Posted by Walter B on 17 Dec 2012, 7:34 a.m., in response to message #1 by Walter B There are 15 votes for option a, 43 votes for option b, and 1 vote for option c if I counted correctly. That's a clear vote for option b. Now let's see if the "lefties" are fairer loosers than the "brown right wing". d:-)

Re: Poll results Message #102 Posted by Maximilian Hohmann on 17 Dec 2012, 10:19 a.m., in response to message #101 by Walter B Quote: Now let's see if the "lefties" are fairer loosers than the "brown right wing". Fairer losers? We righties never lost anything, so you can't know what kind of losers we might be ;-) (but I strongly feel that I am going to lose my unshifted H.MS+ in a prominent position :-( ) Edited: 17 Dec 2012, 10:20 a.m.

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