HP Forum Archive 21

[ Return to Index | Top of Index ]

HP30b bugs? Message #1 Posted by Che on 31 Oct 2012, 10:59 p.m. Hello. I was just about to pull the trigger on an HP30b purchase until I ran into a few posts about bugs on this calculator. For example, in this forum (Message #39 at HPMuseum.org) somebody reports a "Best Fit bug and the Cash Flow Reset bug". and at HP and all over Amazon another person reports another set of bugs see here at HP.com ) So the question is... does anybody have confirmation of these calculation errors? Have the bugs been fixed? Can anybody provide examples of the calculations with the expected result (i.e, proper answer and the result returned by the HP30b?) Thanks.

Re: The bug lies in reality... Message #2 Posted by Maximilian Hohmann on 1 Nov 2012, 2:25 p.m., in response to message #1 by Che Hello! "Bugs" in a financial calculator? Does that really matter? This week I received a letter from my life insurance (that I've been paying for since 25 years with another 15 or so to go) that "unfortunately" due to "unforseen circumstances in world economy" the expected end payment will need to be adjusted (=significantly reduced!) once again... It's almost down to the point now where it would have been better to store all that money under my pillow! And I'm pretty sure that they did all their calculations with a perfectly bugless calculator (or rather mainframe computer software) and that they were correct to the fouth decimal point for the initially predicted end sum. But reality is stronger and buggier than the best calculator, so who cares? Regards Max

Re: The bug lies in reality... Message #3 Posted by Eric Smith on 1 Nov 2012, 4:49 p.m., in response to message #2 by Maximilian Hohmann You have an "adjustable" life insurance policy? I thought those were normally fixed.

Re: The bug lies in reality... Message #4 Posted by Maximilian Hohmann on 1 Nov 2012, 5:21 p.m., in response to message #3 by Eric Smith Quote: You have an "adjustable" life insurance policy? I thought those were normally fixed. Here in Germany, the only thing that's fixed is the sum that they pay in case of premature death. If you survive long enough to reach the end end your insurance policy (usually age 60 or 65), you will get a guaranteed minimum payment, which is essentially the sum of your montly contributions (as if you would have stored the money under your pillow). A six-digit four-banger is all you need to calculate that... On top of the guaranteed minimum, you will be paid a surplus depending on how well they managed to work with your money over half your lifetime. When I signed the contract 25 years ago, they predicted that surplus to be almost two times the guaranteed minimum! Using bug-free software.

Re: The bug lies in reality... Message #5 Posted by Software49g on 1 Nov 2012, 6:40 p.m., in response to message #4 by Maximilian Hohmann "Prognosen sind schwierig, besonders wenn sie die Zukunft betreffen" Karl Valentin Translates pretty much to: "Predictions are difficult, especially when concerning the future." But that is not an excuse for a software bug... Regards, Andreas http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de

Re: The bug lies in reality... Message #6 Posted by Che on 1 Nov 2012, 9:06 p.m., in response to message #2 by Maximilian Hohmann Quote: Hello! "Bugs" in a financial calculator? Does that really matter? This week I received a letter from my life insurance (that I've been paying for since 25 years with another 15 or so to go) that "unfortunately" due to "unforseen circumstances in world economy" the expected end payment will need to be adjusted (=significantly reduced!) once again... It's almost down to the point now where it would have been better to store all that money under my pillow! And I'm pretty sure that they did all their calculations with a perfectly bugless calculator (or rather mainframe computer software) and that they were correct to the fouth decimal point for the initially predicted end sum. But reality is stronger and buggier than the best calculator, so who cares? Regards Max LOL! Got a good chuckle out of that. So true. Everything financial is smoke and mirrors. Phantom profits, unrecognized losses, Ctrl-P economics, and on and on... However, getting docked points in an exam by a professor due to a buggy partial-year depreciation schedule will feel all too real. Too bad.. The HP30b made it look like I could have my cake and eat it too. RPN, programmable, as feature packed and with the ease of use of a TI BAII Pro. But... bug reports and no firmware updates from HP since 2010 (at least as it appears from the various forums) make it a non starter for me. :-( Che

Re: The bug lies in reality... Message #7 Posted by Maximilian Hohmann on 2 Nov 2012, 6:39 a.m., in response to message #6 by Che Quote: However, getting docked points in an exam by a professor due to a buggy partial-year depreciation schedule will feel all too real. When I was studying engineering, we did not get points for the numbers in the final result, but for the solution we found to solve the problem and for the formulae we used. Getting correct numbers in the end was the icing on the cake, but nothing else.

Re: The bug lies in reality... Message #8 Posted by Tim Wessman on 2 Nov 2012, 8:18 a.m., in response to message #6 by Che Partial years work just fine. Whether you get one with the new firmware is a different question. No way to tell from the outside if it has it or not. TW Edited: 2 Nov 2012, 8:18 a.m.

The bug is real... Message #9 Posted by Che on 2 Nov 2012, 2:58 p.m., in response to message #8 by Tim Wessman Quote: Partial years work just fine. Whether you get one with the new firmware is a different question. No way to tell from the outside if it has it or not. TW Nope. Still broken. Just picked one up, made sure there was a return policy on it. Firmware 4 5 2010. But, but... I am buying this in Nov 2012!! Taking an example for DBXover from the HP12c user manual: Cost: $11,000 / Salvage: $500 / Life: 8 years / 200% declining-balance factor / 6 months remaining. Doing a full depreciation on the 30b works just fine: 1: DEP = 2750.00 RDV = 7750.00 2: etc... Tried doing the partial depreciation, the right answer is: 1: DEP = 1375.00, RDV = 9125.00 2: etc... The HP30b returns: 1: DEP = 1604.17, RDV = 8895.83 2: oops! The whole partial depreciation schedule is shot to hell. It is really too bad, I really, really wanted to like this calculator. I really do in fact, but... who knows what other bugs are lurking in there. HP's QA process seems to have broken down on this product line. So, off to the tried and true TI BA world I go... no RPN, no programming. Sucks. Thanks for the help though, I appreciate it. Che

Re: The bug is real... Message #10 Posted by Tim Wessman on 2 Nov 2012, 3:50 p.m., in response to message #9 by Che Like I said, the latest firmware works fine. You have the original in that one. TW

Re: The bug is real... Message #11 Posted by Nigel J Dowrick on 2 Nov 2012, 4:48 p.m., in response to message #10 by Tim Wessman Is it possible to obtain the latest firmware? I like the HP-30b so much that I bought a new one when I became interested in the WP-34S so that I could keep on using the original. I have a programming cable ...! Nigel (UK)

Re: The bug is real... Message #12 Posted by Nigel J Dowrick on 3 Nov 2012, 10:43 a.m., in response to message #11 by Nigel J Dowrick Tim: speaking for myself, I quite understand that the decision about whether or not to release (or even to identify) the updated firmware does not lie in your hands. I simply asked in case it was available somewhere and I had missed it. If HP don't want it released then I think it's a shame, but any moaning I might do is certainly not directed at you! I do not view you as HP's representative here. Nigel (UK)

Re: The bug is real... Message #13 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 2 Nov 2012, 5:52 p.m., in response to message #10 by Tim Wessman It would be great if HP could make it available.

Re: The bug is real... Message #14 Posted by Walter B on 2 Nov 2012, 6:24 p.m., in response to message #10 by Tim Wessman Tim, that's not a customer-oriented response IMHO. I concur with Thomas. And I suggest adding a user friendly text explaining how to get the newest firmware into the 30b. TIA.

Re: The bug is real... Message #15 Posted by Donald Williams on 2 Nov 2012, 6:55 p.m., in response to message #14 by Walter B Forgive me if I am wrong about this Quote: Tim, that's not a customer-oriented response IMHO. If I remember correctly Tim has mentioned many times that he reads and posts as an individual just like you and I. Not the "spokesman" or "face" of corporate HP, therefore I don't think he has any "customers" on this site. But perhaps I am wrong.

Re: The bug is real... Message #16 Posted by Walter B on 2 Nov 2012, 8:19 p.m., in response to message #15 by Donald Williams Thanks, Don, I know that Tim acts privately here. Nevertheless, his response as I read it doesn't help anybody IMHO, so I don't rate it as helpful as it could have been. But maybe my English isn't sufficient to detect the sublime supportive vibrations between the lines.

Re: The bug is real... Message #17 Posted by Che on 2 Nov 2012, 8:05 p.m., in response to message #10 by Tim Wessman Quote: Like I said, the latest firmware works fine. You have the original in that one. Yeah. Understood. It is too bad. I had to take the calculator back since I had a 7 day return policy so I couldn't sit around to figure out how and if I could upgrade the firmware. I picked up a TI BA Pro to get me going, but man it sucks! It feels like a brick on my hands and not as polished as the HP30b. Its keyboard layout, menuing system and feel of the keyboard is by far superior to the TI. If the 30b's reputation has not been too damaged, HP could have a winner on it's hands. They need to get it approved for all the financial certifications and they could give the TI's a run for their money. I will wait a while for the retail channel to clear the duds and will more than likely pick it up again in the future. Che

Of course, one would have to have... Message #18 Posted by gene wright on 2 Nov 2012, 10:15 p.m., in response to message #17 by Che a flash cable and the rom in order to fix a 30b's firmware.

Re: Of course, one would have to have... Message #19 Posted by Bart (UK) on 3 Nov 2012, 9:51 a.m., in response to message #18 by gene wright So, I have a cable and 1 HP-30b that's not a WP-34s yet, but where to find this fixed ROM?

Re: Of course, one would have to have... Message #20 Posted by John B. Smitherman on 3 Nov 2012, 1:30 p.m., in response to message #18 by gene wright Gene, do you have any cables left? Regards, John

Re: Of course, one would have to have... Message #21 Posted by Gene Wright on 3 Nov 2012, 3:36 p.m., in response to message #20 by John B. Smitherman Yes, I do still have a few cables left. Send an email to my name with no spaces, then the number 143 and hotmail dot com. If you would like a copy of the other item in this thread, something software related, send me an email too.

Re: Of course, one would have to have... Message #22 Posted by Walter B on 3 Nov 2012, 4:34 p.m., in response to message #21 by Gene Wright Gene, you've got mail regarding the 'other item'. TIA.

How to verify firmware version? Message #23 Posted by Jeff Kearns on 2 Nov 2012, 10:08 p.m., in response to message #17 by Che OK... I am not impressed with either the partial year depreciation bug or the lack of HP support in upgrading the firmware to the latest version for those users affected by this bug. Now for the dumb question: how do I check the firmware version on my unit? I have checked the museum and digital users guide to no avail. Jeff

Re: How to verify firmware version? Message #24 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 2 Nov 2012, 11:30 p.m., in response to message #23 by Jeff Kearns Here's the link

Re: The bug is real... Message #25 Posted by Bart (UK) on 3 Nov 2012, 6:02 a.m., in response to message #10 by Tim Wessman So, now we know the firmware version that doesn't have the fix, would you care to elaborate on what version number we should be looking for that does have the fix?

Re: The bug lies in reality... Message #26 Posted by Matt Agajanian on 6 Nov 2012, 6:40 p.m., in response to message #2 by Maximilian Hohmann Hi all. This brings up a question for me. There seems to be a double standard here. Why is it that these HP-30b bugs are acceptable and the bugs found in the HP-35S and HP-33S are not tolerated?

Re: The bug lies in reality... Message #27 Posted by Walter B on 6 Nov 2012, 7:01 p.m., in response to message #26 by Matt Agajanian Maybe noone cares about bugs in financial calculators for the reasons mentioned above (finance is buggy anyway, if I got the message - science is something different).

Re: The bug lies in reality... Message #28 Posted by Matt Agajanian on 6 Nov 2012, 7:46 p.m., in response to message #27 by Walter B Thank you for that. It all makes sense now. By the way, I see on hp.com that both the 33s and 35s are back up on the website. Has HP fixed their glitches?

[ Return to Index | Top of Index ]

Go back to the main exhibit hall