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HP calc emulators for Android
Message #1 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 21 May 2012, 9:56 a.m.

Hi, all:

I'm currently running assorted HP calc emulators (amongst lots of other software) on my recently acquired Sony PRS-T1 eBook reader (E Ink display) under DosBox for Android and so far so good.

However, I think that directly using the eReader's native ARM CPU would provide better integration and faster execution speed, which would be highly desirable for the kind of routines I write and run as of late.

Thus, I would be very obligued if those of you knowledgeable about such matters would be so kind as to tell me which emulators are available for said environment, ideally with links and your own personal recommendations. The relevant hard & soft specs are:

     Display    : 6" E-Ink 16 level grayscale infrared touchscreen
     Resolution : 600 x 800 pixels
     Memory Size: Internal: 2 GB 
     External   : Micro SD card 32GB

Android 2.2.1-based 256MB RAM 800MHz Freescale ARMv7 CPU Freescale MX50 board

I'm mostly interested in emulators for (in order of interest): HP-71B + ROMs (mainly Math + JPC), HP42S, HP-41C, HP-15C, HP-12C, but will consider any others as well.

Thanks in advance and

Regards from V.

Edited: 21 May 2012, 10:03 a.m.

      
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #2 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 21 May 2012, 11:36 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Valentin Albillo

Hi Valentín,

I bought the same eReader recently too, and was just wondering about these kind of questions. Please, would you suggest how to install DosBox for Android on this device? (I apologize in advance if I missed some obvious route).

If you prefer, you can contact me at "a.rodriguez" [at] ieee . org

Best regards,

Andrés

            
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #3 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 22 May 2012, 9:25 a.m.,
in response to message #2 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina)

Hi, Andrés:

Quote:
I bought the same eReader recently too, and was just wondering about these kind of questions.

Congratulations, it's the very best E-Ink reader out there, bar none.

Quote:
Please, would you suggest how to install DosBox for Android on this device? (I apologize in advance if I missed some obvious route).

I didn't do it myself, a workplace colleague kindly did it for me per my request but I understand the process is quite simple. This reader is actually an Android system so essentially you must root it (get root user rights), then you have access to the full underlying Android OS and thus you can install whatever applications you want and manage the device and its file systems to your heart's content.

This is some (abysmal quality) pic of Emu71 running on my Sony PRS-T1 eReader:

Despite the (abysmal) quality you can (barely) see the VER$ and MEM commands output:

        HP71:2CDCC MATH:1A JPC:F01 HPIL:1B STRU:A RCPY:E
which means it has the Math, JPC, and HPIL ROMs installed and working, plus 160 Kb of available RAM and assorted goodies.

To root the device, have a look here:

http://www.lectoreselectronicos.com/showthread.php?12013-Rooteo-personalizado-basado-en-rupor-minimal

This excellent webs site explains in excruciating detail how to root your eReader and how to go from there, starting from scratch and step by step. I understand it's the site my colleague used to do the magic.

The corresponding forum where you can post to ask for help and such is here:

http://www.lectoreselectronicos.com/forumdisplay.php?69-Rooteo

I hope this will get you up and running. Emu71 doesn't run that fine (somewhat slow, which is why I asked for other emulators) but it does run, which is amazing and very practical. Free42 also runs, faster, and you'll find plenty of alternative readers (CoolReader, Kindle reader, ...), Chess, Sudoku, Reversi/Othello, DosBox (of course !), whatever.

You'll also be able to install the top bar utility which enables fast refresh (much faster and convenient for scrolling menu lists, fast page flipping, etc), and tons of other goodies, all of it without losing or altering the native functionality in the least as this is add-on functionality, not a replacement.

Best of lucks and best regards from V.

                  
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #4 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 22 May 2012, 2:20 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Valentin Albillo

Thank you very much!

                        
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #5 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 22 May 2012, 4:01 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina)

You're welcome, Andrés. Best of lucks and enjoy your newly 'rooted' eReader. Anything else I might be of help, just tell me.

Best regards from V.

      
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #6 Posted by Jim Horn on 21 May 2012, 11:56 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Valentin Albillo

While not an emulator but a simulator, I enjoy and recommend Thomas Okken's delightful Free42 for Android. It's the one I use on my HTC Aria (chosen as the smallest physical 'Droid phone I could find). As an ancient HP-25/67/41/etc. owner and user, I find it intuitive and powerful.

Of course, Droid48 can provide full RPL capability when needed as well.

Best to you - and thank you for your great insight and postings.

            
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #7 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 22 May 2012, 6:20 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by Jim Horn

Quote:
While not an emulator but a simulator, I enjoy and recommend Thomas Okken's delightful Free42 for Android. It's the one I use on my HTC Aria (chosen as the smallest physical 'Droid phone I could find). As an ancient HP-25/67/41/etc. owner and user, I find it intuitive and powerful.

Of course, Droid48 can provide full RPL capability when needed as well.

Best to you - and thank you for your great insight and postings.


Thanks a lot for your extremely kind words and excellent advice, Jim. Following it after reading your post yesterday I did grab Free42 for Android and it looks and runs absolutely great on my Sony reader, it's indeed an awesome opus by Mr. Okken and the whole user community should be immensely grateful to him for his generosity in making it freely available for the benefit of us all.

I already had and extensively used Free42 in its Palm OS incarnation and it ran like a charm on a device you could hide in your palm (no pun intended), fast and very comfortable to use.

Again, thanks a lot for your kind words and wishes, best to you and your family as well.

V.

            
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #8 Posted by John B. Smitherman on 23 May 2012, 10:30 a.m.,
in response to message #6 by Jim Horn

Hi Jim. My daughter has an HTC Aria and she really likes it. I recently helped her update the Aria's Android O/S from eclair to froyo. She claims it's much faster with better battery life and better wifi performance since the update.

John

      
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #9 Posted by hugh steers on 21 May 2012, 12:29 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Valentin Albillo

Has anyone ported EMU71 to Android?

            
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #10 Posted by Howard Owen on 21 May 2012, 1:45 p.m.,
in response to message #9 by hugh steers

As far as I know, neither JF's DOS based EMU71, nor Cristoph's Emu48 based emulator have even been ported it to Linux, yet.

A Java port would go much of the distance toward an Android port. Android apps don't run directly on the hardware. They run on a virtual machine called Dalvik. So running EMU71 on DosBox actually involves three levels of virtualization before you get to the real hardware. Cutting out the x86 emulation would no doubt speed things up though. There's a toolkit provided to do direct execution on Android, but then you have to worry about variations in the underlying hardware platforms.

                  
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #11 Posted by hugh steers on 21 May 2012, 3:51 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by Howard Owen

Hi,

Yes, i am currently involved in some Android NDK development. i have an old copy of EMU71 in "C" here which, in theory, i could compile for Android. If i did this, it wouldnt be emulating via java at all, but native 32 bit arm code.

As, already pointed out, there's a virtual 71 on Android from Olivier. i was wondering if there were any others.

the emu71 code is copyright, Christoph Gießelink. Christoph are you there? is there any interest in this idea.

Edited: 21 May 2012, 3:53 p.m.

                        
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #12 Posted by Christoph Giesselink on 21 May 2012, 5:10 p.m.,
in response to message #11 by hugh steers

Quote:
the emu71 code is copyright, Christoph Gießelink. Christoph are you there? is there any interest in this idea.

Are you speaking about Emu71/Win or about JF's Emu71/DOS version?

Emu71/Win (current v1.01) is published under the GPLv2. So you can use the source code, but must publish your program also under the GPLv2 or GPLv3.

AFAIK JF hasn't published his Emu71/DOS sources to the public. I got the permission from him to use his HPIL processor command simulation (which had been adjusted to my memory interface) inside my Emu71/Win version.

I personally have no interests in Smartphone application programming at the moment.

Christoph

                              
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #13 Posted by hugh steers on 21 May 2012, 5:53 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by Christoph Giesselink

Hi Christoph,

Yes, i was referring to the Emu/71 Win version.

I think it would be GPLv2. thanks for pointing this out.

      
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #14 Posted by Alexander Oestert on 21 May 2012, 2:10 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Valentin Albillo

Have a look at Olivier de Smet's wonderful Android ports of several HP classics:

>>>CLICK<<<

      
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #15 Posted by Thomas Okken on 21 May 2012, 4:49 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Valentin Albillo

Free42 for Android has the simulator part compiled as native ARM code; only the user interface and filesystem interaction are done in Java. I've never done any benchmarks, but subjectively, it feels as fast on my HTC Aria as the iPhone version, which is 100% native ARM.

- Thomas

      
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #16 Posted by Olivier De Smet on 22 May 2012, 5:24 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Valentin Albillo

Hi,

Go71b on android should works with android 2.2 (it is developed for a Motorola Defy 2.2.2 and a Galaxy tab 3.2)

The speed should be good at x1 (800Mhz), the Saturn emulation is still in Java.

If you need more ram, perhaps I will make my HP86 emulator for android too (you can plug up to 16 MB as extended ram and use it with the MATRIX rom for nice (large matrix) computations but without complex)

Olivier

Edited: 22 May 2012, 5:48 p.m.

            
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #17 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 22 May 2012, 6:01 p.m.,
in response to message #16 by Olivier De Smet

Hi, Olivier:

Quote:
Hi,

Go71b on android should works with android 2.2 (it is developed for a Motorola Defy 2.2.2 and a Galaxy tab 3.2)

The speed should be good at x1 (800Mhz), the Saturn emulation is still in Java.

Olivier


Thanks for your input, Olivier, matter of fact I had a look at your Go71b emulator page at http://sites.google.com/site/olivier2smet2/home/go71b and it certainly looks great and I'm considering buying it but there's something I was going to ask you as I didn't find it mentioned at your site, namely:

It seems from the images at your site that your emulator uses a 71B skin simulating the look-and-feel of an actual 71B, its display, keys, etc. Very nice looking indeed.

Now, though that's pretty and highly resembles the actual machine I wouldn't find it practical for the kind of use I would make of it, which actually needs a text interface like the one Emu71 implements, i.e., an 80x25 or 80x50 text display ('console') where you can see mutiple lines of listings or output at a time and with a command line where you can type your commands or program lines with the usual PC-keyboard cursors, insert, delete, etc, not by using the mouse or clicking keys on the skin.

Is that possible ? Can I use your 71b emulator that way, with a text interface a la Emu71 ? A skin-like interface limited to a single-line 22-char display would actually severely hinder its usability for me.

Thanks in advance and best regards from V.

                  
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #18 Posted by Olivier De Smet on 22 May 2012, 6:25 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Valentin Albillo

It is actually an exact hardware emulation, now I started to code the HP-IL interface to be able to use emulated HP-IL video interface. Yes a multi line display will be a bonus, but not now.

I am planning to make this emulation evolve, ie using a bluetooth keyboard, even interfacing HP-IL over UDP or TCP.

Olivier

                        
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #19 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 23 May 2012, 10:23 a.m.,
in response to message #18 by Olivier De Smet

Quote:
It is actually an exact hardware emulation, now I started to code the HP-IL interface to be able to use emulated HP-IL video interface. Yes a multi line display will be a bonus, but not now.

It's a real pity. Congratulations for your excellent work up to date and I encourage you to finish the development of the HP-IL video emulation because the one thing that most hindered the otherwise awesome HP-71B usability was precisely its reviled one-line, 22 char LCD display, the weakest point by far in its excellent design.

Quote:
I am planning to make this emulation evolve, ie using a bluetooth keyboard, even interfacing HP-IL over UDP or TCP.

When you finally succeed, I'll be greatly interested to buy your emulator, for sure. Keep up the really good work !

Quote:
If you need more ram, perhaps I will make my HP86 emulator for android too (you can plug up to 16 MB as extended ram and use it with the MATRIX rom for nice (large matrix) computations but without complex)

Well, RAM is not a problem, I'm running Emu71 with 160 Kb of RAM, which is plenty enough for what I do with it, and could expand it to some 300+ Kb if needed so no problem there.

Matter of fact, I did use the HP86 and HP87 a real lot back in their day, for professional, paid-for work, long and complex technical programs, and never needed or used more than 192 Kb, usually just 64 Kb.

The HP86/87 BASIC was a less advanced dialect than HP-71B BASIC is, its only saving grace being that it allowed long variable names ("Cost=23") but it lacked such essential things as subprograms with parameter passing by value and reference (yes, the Advanced Programming ROM allowed them but it was a very problematic implementation with critical restrictions) and recursivity, among other glaring omissions. It was also slow as molasses, most especially if you extensively used long variable names (!)

The HP86/87 Matrix ROM was a similar case. On the one hand, it had a slightly more extensive range of matrix functions than the 71B Math ROM but nothing very essential. On the other hand, it completely lacked complex support, including complex matrix support, numerical integrate, root solving, polynomial root solving, Fourier trasnforms, IEEE support, etc, etc. So, feature for feature, it didn't hold a candle to the 71B Math ROM, though that doesn't mean it's not very convenient to have at hand if you've got an HP86/87.

The bottom line: I'd be very interested in your HP86/87 emulator for Android, not as a replacement for a good HP-71B emulator but for pure revival of old time's sake. If you do adapt it to Android, the Matrix ROM is a must, and the Assembler ROM would be a great asset as well, still have lots of listings of assembly-language keywords I implemented at the time. On a negative note, the Advanced Programming ROM would be next to useless.

Thanks and best regards from V.

                              
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #20 Posted by Olivier De Smet on 23 May 2012, 2:02 p.m.,
in response to message #19 by Valentin Albillo

For the display, I started an interim release : 96x25 multi line display ...

HPIL is a bit harder (you have to redo the whole behavior of the HPIL mailbox microcontroller), so it will take a bit of time

For HP86, you can try this windows emulation to see if it can fullfill your needs.

For more fun, an HP86 into an FPGA

They include most of the known (?) ROMS.

For more recent tools, you can have an HP9000 series 200 windows emulation

I started an FPGA one, but I had some troubles with HPIB ... I will restart it one day

Olivier

Edited: 23 May 2012, 2:04 p.m.

                                    
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #21 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 23 May 2012, 4:00 p.m.,
in response to message #20 by Olivier De Smet

Hi again, Olivier:

Quote:
For the display, I started an interim release : 96x25 multi line display ...

Great ! Please let me know when it's ready. For E-Ink-friendly behavior, either don't implement animations of any kind (i.e., a blinking cursor) or else allow the possibility of deactivating them on a configuration menu or something. Also, as E-Ink displays are monochrome right now, some monochrome mode or color configuration would be most welcome. I can do some beta-testing if you wish.

Quote:
For HP86, you can try this windows emulation to see if it can fullfill your needs.

I followed the link you kindly provided, downloaded the distribution, and tried it (HP87-release.exe) on my Windows XP system but most unfortunately it doesn't run at all, it crashes as shown in this screen cap:

I've tried various selections of ROMs and such on the initial dialog, always accepting the default KML script, which is one of the scripts indicated in the readme.txt file (x2 kml) but to no avail, it always immediately crashes when the main screen is shown.

Thanks and best regards from V.

            
Re: HP calc emulators for Android
Message #22 Posted by Paul Berger (Canada) on 22 May 2012, 10:09 p.m.,
in response to message #16 by Olivier De Smet

I for one would be interested in an HP86 emulator for Android.

Edited: 22 May 2012, 10:10 p.m.

      
Thanks to all of you (Re: HP emulators for Android)
Message #23 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 23 May 2012, 9:36 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Valentin Albillo

Hi, all:

Thanks to all of you who participated in this thread, your varied and excellent advice has been duly noted and will be acted upon immediately.

This will allow me the use of such emulators on the go so I expect increased productivity in all things related to HP classic calcs, including interaction with this Forum which wasn't formerly convenient till I got this outstanding E-Ink reader.

Thanks again and best regards from V.


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