HP Forum Archive 21

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19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #1 Posted by Timo Labrenz on 23 Mar 2012, 1:07 p.m. Hi all, I need a new RPN calculator and I think you can help me decide which one to choose. At least it'd be terribly nice if you tried. I've got a 19BII I'm kinda happy with, however, it's a bit too big to carry around and the one I have is slowly falling apart. I've been told I should get a 17BII+, but, hm, well... My 19BII is like a family van to me. Big, has everything I need (and even more), the engine is okay. However, it has 150000 miles on it now. The 17BII+ has been recommended because I was content with the 19BII van I had before. It's definitely smaller, the engine is not quite as strong, it has less extras and still is pretty expensive but at least it's easier to find a parking spot in the city. Would you buy that car? There's room enough in my garage for two cars and most of the time I'm just driving around the city alone - no need for a 7 seater. Wouldn't it be more fun get a sports or muscle car instead? Or, sorry, a tuned Honda WP-34s Odissey with 350hp. Considering the 19BII will stay in the garage... okay, I'll stop that now... rests on the table most of the time while I use another calculator, it might last some more years. But which one should I get? It should definitely be smaller than the 19BII. It would be nice if it could do basic accounting stuff like depreciations (the 17BII+ doesn't do that properly, right?). What are my options? - Get a scientific calculator (WP-34s, 35s,...) and still have to carry around the 19BII from time to time - Get a newer and smaller business calculator (17BII+, 12c, hm, which version?) - Get two 30B for less than 20€ each and convert one into a WP-34s (maybe stupid, but I _love_ the idea. However, I can't find a cheap 30B atm) - Something completely different? Thanks for reading my rant. Now, what do you think?

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #2 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 23 Mar 2012, 7:37 p.m., in response to message #1 by Timo Labrenz Get at least one HP 30b and play around with it. If you like it as is you are fine. If you see room for 'improvement' I wholeheartedly recommend the conversion to WP 34S. As you can probably imagine, I have both. :-) Where are you located?

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #3 Posted by Timo Labrenz on 23 Mar 2012, 8:49 p.m., in response to message #2 by Marcus von Cube, Germany I think that's very good advice, thank you. I'm in Freiburg. I haven't considered the 30B until very recently when I heard of the WP 34s option, so I haven't checked the prices at eBay, mindfactory, etc. Do those cheap prices (max. 25€) happen frequently? Or was that just one batch? Do you have a crystal ball? ;)

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #4 Posted by Dave Britten on 23 Mar 2012, 9:16 p.m., in response to message #1 by Timo Labrenz How about one of the palmtops? All three - 95LX, 100LX, and 200LX - have a calculator application that replicates all the functionality of the 19Bii, plus Lotus 1-2-3 (among other things). And Calculator and Lotus work together. For example, you can use Calculator to back-solve formulas from Lotus, or dump amorts from Calculator into Lotus. The only thing you'd lose is 82240 printer compatibility. They also have a nice text editor, date book, and customizable flat-file database. Since they run DOS, you can load whatever else you need. And the 17Bii is great, if you don't need trig or plotting, or if you want IR printing. I've gotten quite a bit of use from mine. It's one of the most affordable models in terms of secondhand prices. I've heard the 17Bii+ has some solver quirks that make it undesirable, so avoid that one.

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #5 Posted by Timo Labrenz on 24 Mar 2012, 7:30 p.m., in response to message #4 by Dave Britten Palmtop sounds nice, thanks. Unfortunately - I probably should have mentioned this before - I want a calculator I can use at my exam. AFAIK all the B models except the 19BII and many C and S models are approved. We're not allowed to use calculators that are obviously able to connect to a network, have huge displays or alphanumeric keyboards.

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #6 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 25 Mar 2012, 4:51 a.m., in response to message #5 by Timo Labrenz Timo, what kind of exam are you facing?

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #7 Posted by Timo Labrenz on 26 Mar 2012, 6:17 p.m., in response to message #6 by Marcus von Cube, Germany The next ones are gonna be the certified accounting specialist (Bilanzbuchhalter) exams. That shouldn't be any problem, calculator wise. After that, I might take the qualified tax clerk (Steuerfachangestellter) examn - just for the heck of it. That might be more difficult. Most of the times they only say calculators are allowed, but sometimes they add "not programmable with mathematical formulas" or "not able to communicate with third parties" (yes, both sounds weird in german,too). I also need the calculator at my jobs (accountant and coach). I have to carry the calculator around a lot and couldn't use a laptop. (Oh, btw, there's still no reasonable depreciation app for Android phones. But I'd prefer a calculator, anyway.) My students can bring their own data and I have to control their calculations at their tables. Controlling depreciations is the most time consuming task. Edited: 28 Mar 2012, 8:55 a.m.

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #8 Posted by Guenter Schink on 28 Mar 2012, 4:51 p.m., in response to message #7 by Timo Labrenz Quote: I also need the calculator at my jobs (accountant and coach). I have to carry the calculator around a lot and couldn't use a laptop. (Oh, btw, there's still no reasonable depreciation app for Android phones. But I'd prefer a calculator, anyway.) My students can bring their own data and I have to control their calculations at their tables. Controlling depreciations is the most time consuming task. If you already have an Android-phone you could at least give DROID48, a 48GX emulator a try. Load FIN 4.2.1 B from www.hpcalc.org and evaluate its capabilities. Gruß Günter

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #9 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 24 Mar 2012, 5:10 a.m., in response to message #1 by Timo Labrenz Timo, just tell us what functions you'd expect. I'd say that if money matters and no programmability is required, the inexpensive 10BII+ is worth a look. I got one 30b and one 10BII+ when they were cheap (18 and 10 EUR) and find myself using the latter most. But then, I *need* programmability to calculate effective payment (a concept to reflect partial interest on payments made within a compounding period - a concept unknown in the US) and take the 30b to calculate this 'TVM6'. It all depends on what you need. Thomas

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #10 Posted by Timo Labrenz on 24 Mar 2012, 8:20 p.m., in response to message #9 by Thomas Radtke That's a bit difficult, because I'll go back to (business) school this year and they only recommend non-RPN calculators. However, I'm so used to RPN, I really don't want to switch to algebraic entry. I don't need programmability. Things I need, use the 19BII for or are important to me: - Depreciation! I need that _a_lot_ - I use the solver quite often - Interest rates (no need for a business calculator, tho) - Amortization - Statistics - Break-Even would be nice to have - IRR, NPV would be nice to have - I want an excellent keyboard - I love having three lines of stack visible, although 2 lines would be enough - I don't need annuities and bonds That's all I can think of at 1:15 A.M. ;)

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #11 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 25 Mar 2012, 2:34 a.m., in response to message #10 by Timo Labrenz Quote: However, I'm so used to RPN, I really don't want to switch to algebraic entry. That rules out the 10BII+. Quote: Depreciation! I need that _a_lot_ Only few calculators miss this feature, like the 18C. Recent calcs all do have it. Quote: I use the solver quite often Since you don't need programmability, I estimate you're talking about TVM? If not, that would rule out several calculators. I think the 17BII+ is the only current financial calculator offering a programmable solver. Quote: Interest rates (no need for a business calculator, tho) What does that mean? Quote: - Amortization - Statistics - Break-Even would be nice to have - IRR, NPV would be nice to have All current models have these functions. Quote: - I want an excellent keyboard Forget about the 20b. Quote: - I love having three lines of stack visible, although 2 lines would be enough Here's what left: 17BII+.

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #12 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 25 Mar 2012, 4:54 a.m., in response to message #11 by Thomas Radtke The 17b has a two line display but AFAIK the lower line is always occupied by a menu and never available for stack display.

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #13 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 26 Mar 2012, 5:35 a.m., in response to message #12 by Marcus von Cube, Germany Sure you're right. So, the only replacement for a 19BII is another 19BII.

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #14 Posted by Timo Labrenz on 26 Mar 2012, 6:44 p.m., in response to message #11 by Thomas Radtke Quote: Quote: Depreciation! I need that _a_lot_ Only few calculators miss this feature, like the 18C. Recent calcs all do have it. I'm still worried about that one. The 30B seems to miscalculate depreciations, too, I've heard. Gotta read up on that. Quote: Quote: I use the solver quite often Since you don't need programmability, I estimate you're talking about TVM? If not, that would rule out several calculators. I think the 17BII+ is the only current financial calculator offering a programmable solver. Is that programming, already? It's just simple stuff with 3 or more variables. Like usually for one certain customer: Musicians are sent to a concert with a certain budget and basic travel and hotel (bit difficult because double rooms are cheaper than single rooms) costs per person. Now solve for the needed budget, how much the customer can spend on hotels, whether they can travel by train or better rent a bus and so on. Quote: Quote: Interest rates (no need for a business calculator, tho) What does that mean? Uhm, nothing, sorry, sir ;) Any calculator could do what I need there. It's actually of no importance at all for my decision. Thanks a lot for your help!

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #15 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 27 Mar 2012, 4:29 a.m., in response to message #14 by Timo Labrenz Quote: Is that programming, already? IMO yes. You define some operations the solver will execute. Even a simple formula with variables, along with some algebra, is an algorithm in that it solves a general problem, terminates, and gives for a set of variables a specific result. But ... my knowledge about Computer Science is from some decades ago.

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #16 Posted by Timo Labrenz on 28 Mar 2012, 8:53 a.m., in response to message #14 by Timo Labrenz Quote: I'm still worried about that one. The 30B seems to miscalculate depreciations, too, I've heard. Gotta read up on that. Damn, it seems to be true: There's bug that leads to "incorrect results if partial year beginning months are used" (jmartinfinance @ hp community). That really sucks because I've already decided to go for the 30B. Now the only options seem to be the 17BII and 17BII+. Those are at least twice as expensive...

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #17 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 28 Mar 2012, 10:30 a.m., in response to message #16 by Timo Labrenz Timo, you may be able to write a program for the 30b that addresses the problem.

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #18 Posted by JDonley on 24 Mar 2012, 12:19 p.m., in response to message #1 by Timo Labrenz I have several 19B II, but they are never used. The 17B II is my go to calc [have 4 of them, all 1990 Singapore] and would be my first choice to replace the 19B II . The 30B is another good choice. Very good keypad for newer HP's.

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #19 Posted by Timo Labrenz on 28 Mar 2012, 9:52 a.m., in response to message #1 by Timo Labrenz So! Da wohl eh jeder Rechner auch Nachteile oder Probleme hat und es eh nicht den einen richtigen gibt, habe ich jetzt einfach mal einen 30B bestellt. Den gibt's zwar gerade nirgendwo billig, aber was soll's... Und wenn er nicht macht was ich will, wird er halt zum 34s umgemodelt. Vielen Dank euch allen für die Hilfe! Edit: Why German? Anyway, just wanted to say that it seems no calculator is perfectly right for me so I just bought the 30B and if it doesn't do what I want it to, I'll convert it into a 34s. Thanks a lot all your help! Edited: 28 Mar 2012, 12:31 p.m. after one or more responses were posted

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #20 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 28 Mar 2012, 11:36 a.m., in response to message #19 by Timo Labrenz Viel Glück damit. Der 30b Solver ist allerdings nicht sehr praktisch.

Re: 19BII replacement recommendations/decision making help needed Message #21 Posted by Timo Labrenz on 28 Mar 2012, 12:24 p.m., in response to message #20 by Thomas Radtke Thanks! Well, I still have the 19BII for hardcore solver hacking ;) Why did I answer in German? Haven't even noticed, sorry. Guess I was still excited from getting some very good news from my doctor :)

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