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HP 39GII
Message #1 Posted by NateB on 16 Jan 2012, 10:25 a.m.

I ran across a post on HP's forum describing the new 39GII. Full thread.

Quote:
The 50g was essentially a response to the problems with the 49g+ keyboard (and color). The plastic on the keyboard tree cracked and keys broke because the suppliers (unknown to HP) were doing the standard practice of "recycling" the leftover sprue from the injection molds into subsequent runs. This meant the plastic no longer had the specified characteristics and was thus too brittle which led to cracking plastic. Once we put a stop to that, and the marketing person that designed the "hey wouldn't it be cool to have a gold calculator!" was no longer there, the reasonable neutral color scheme of the 50g and the name change let everyone know the problems were no longer there.

Fast forward a few years and things have begun to change. Every calculator that has been released in the past 3-4 years that has MSRP of ~30$US or more has been designed in house. This includes the 20b, 30b, 10bII+, 12c (the new ARM version), the 15c (the new ARM version) and the just recently released 39gII.

The 39gII is the start of a brand new, platform independent codebase for HP graphing calculators. It was developed, designed and written completely in house as a modern, flexible system. It was launched in late October 2011 in China for classroom purchase and is not yet avaiable in other regions.

The 39gII does not emulate any old code. It is a complete implementation of a high end graphing calculator system. The last time this happened for HP with any released models was back in the late 80s with the HP28c (which spawned the 28s, 48sx, 48gx, 49g, and finally the 50g).

It was deisgned from the ground up to support multiple languages natively through the entire system. It has extensive unicode support with over 23000 characters. Complete, contextual help is seamlessly integrated through the system. To support multiple languages, it has a much higher resolution greyscale screen of 127x256 pixels. The most powerful and capable graphing engine on any hardware graphing calculator sold can be found on this unit as well. Flash memory is handled using a standard 128MB flash chip.

Improvments over the 39gs include:

  • full support for units (similar but more extensive to the 48 series with many units, conversions, post and prefixes and so on)
  • complete and modern programming language that integrates with the rest of the system. The user can create and define functions and they work as if built in
  • much more powerful graphing engine
  • support for two font sizes and text formatting
  • ability to use a RTF format with notes and embed images into notes
  • USB on the go handles connectivity

You may say "well, the 48 had a lot of that stuff already". That would be correct. I like to explain to people that if you drew a line representing unit capability between the 39gs and the 50, the 39gII would be more than half way towards the 50g. It isn't just a "dumbed down high school unit" anymore.

However, this does have things not found on any HP calculator, or ANY othe brand's calculator, before either! :-)

Most common question - why doesn't it have a color screen/larger screen/more stuff? Simple - power consumption and cost.

This calculator runs on 4 AAA batteries in parallel. In fact, you can run it on a single battery in an emergency if needed. Power draw is ~4mA at idle, and ~20mA while running full out. I had one that ran for over 500 hours continuously a few months back. We were going for a lower end high school into college machine that would be a viable product in many developing regions of the globe.

While as a *nix user this probably will not be the type of machine that you would be attracted to, it definitely should show that HP is still serious about graphers and that there may be some great things to come in the future!

--

TW

Although I work for the HP calculator group, the views and comments expressed here are my own.


      
Re: HP 39GII
Message #2 Posted by Software49g on 16 Jan 2012, 10:58 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by NateB

Hello,

in this case I'd like to point to my own post there, too.

--- Start of quote --- 24.12.2011 ---

@Tim

It would be fair to mention that (although it has not been done by HP)
- the 50g is available in 6 languages (of course this could be done for more languages)
- will get help for all commands (text and embedded graphics) in the very near future, I am almost ready to release ;-)
- could be updated to a *larger* screen easily, if you do the hardware I'll promise to do the software
- could be given more memory by expanding the virtual processor thus allowing to re-use the vast resources of software that already exist for this platform, and this could be done in a very short time compared to the development time needed for a true 50g successor with uncertain success of the product
- codepages could be flipped in real time to support non ASCII languages
- etc., etc.

Above can be done with the existing codebase and having a different (or called new) codebase does not necessarily extend the user-experience of a product...

SCNR,

Andreas

P.S. Merry Christmas

--- end of quote --- 24.12.2011 ---

Regards,
Andreas

P.S.: as correction to the above quote: the "new" help for the 50g for *all* commands has been released.

            
Re: HP 39GII
Message #3 Posted by David Hayden on 18 Jan 2012, 1:06 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Software49g

Quote:
- could be given more memory by expanding the virtual processor thus allowing to re-use the vast resources of software that already exist for this platform, and this could be done in a very short time compared to the development time needed for a true 50g successor with uncertain success of the product

I think this is harder than it may appear. The emulated saturn processor uses a 20 bit address. Each address refers to a 4-bit nibble in memory. Most modern processors use a 32 bit address and each address refers to an 8-bit byte.

Suppose you try to expand the memory by going to a 32 bit address. This increases the size of every object in the calculator (because each object starts with a prolog that's an address). Suddenly any code that "knows" an object's size won't work. For example, code that moves a 21-nibble real number (or allocates 21 nibbles to store one) won't work because a real number is no longer 21 nibbles.

Problems like this can be solved, but it requires going through all the code by hand.

And this still assumes that the memory is nibble-addressable instead of byte-addressable. In my opinion, if HP is going through the hassle of converting to a 32 bit address, they might as well go to byte-addressable memory too.

All this assumes that the goal is to port the RPL code base for the 50g to a modern processor. If you're going to go through all that work, maybe it's easier to just abandon RPL as the code for the operating system and go with C instead? It's a whole lot easier to find C programmers than RPL programmers.

I suspect that HP has gone through a similar thought process as above. They've implemented a bunch of low-end machines in C code to build up a revenue stream. The 39GII is just an extension of that process and they must figure that the educational market will be profitable.

We can only hope that their next step will be a high-end scientific programmable.

Dave

P.S. Although I can see why HP might not want to re-implement the RPL code for a 32 bit byte-addressable machine, I think it might make a fun project for the community. For instance, maybe we can por the 48G code and get it running on the 50g hardware?

      
Re: HP 39GII
Message #4 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 16 Jan 2012, 11:44 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by NateB

Hopefully this new platform is being developed to a stage where the 48G already was, and is not intended for educational purposes *only*.

If it is, it's great to have students sort out all bugs of the base system first ;-(.

            
Re: HP 39GII
Message #5 Posted by Software49g on 16 Jan 2012, 5:06 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Thomas Radtke

Hello Thomas,

> to a stage where the 48G already was
Besides all that many, many if's and when's that are still before that (and even if done, that does not guarantee success of the product), could you explain to me where

- progress and
- innovation

are, compared to the already available model (HP 50g) if they finally reach the state of the 48G ?

Surely it might be nice to have a "re-programmed" machine as a programming-exercise for the calculator division (and as justification for their existence) *but* where is the benefit for the customer ?

Besides that I would rather see an environment that focuses on quality products in terms of hardware and software instead of rushing out "new shiny buggy" products. As HP calculators has lost the mass market a long time ago this would be a reason for buying one instead of getting a "me-too-toy" from HP.

Just in case you might have forgotten:
50g: still some minor bug, last ROM-Update three years ago. (Was there ever a ROM-Update for the 39/40 family?)
35s: buggy when it came out, will remain buggy until it fades away
20b/30b: depreciation bug since release and unfixed since then
12c: various bugs in the various reincarnations
15c: release bugs have been discussed in detail here recently, no fixes so far

Given all the above they have lost a lot of their credibility (if there is/was any left to loose) that HP calculators are better then their competitiors...
(But I guess, given the prices today for this machines includes beta-testing by the customer.)

Sometimes less is more.

Regards,
Andreas
http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de

P.S. when I got my 48SX in 1989/1990 I trusted the results given by the machine, today I do not trust a result given by a "recent" HP calculator!

Edited: 16 Jan 2012, 5:24 p.m.

                  
Re: HP 39GII
Message #6 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 17 Jan 2012, 1:53 a.m.,
in response to message #5 by Software49g

Hi Andreas,

Quote:
[...] could you explain to me where

- progress and
- innovation

are, compared to the already available model (HP 50g) if they finally reach the state of the 48G ?


I understand the new platform contains no legacy code, and so is more maintainable by the calculator group. This is neither an innovation nor progress in the eye of the customer, but imo *could* lead to a new machine that eventually surpass the 48G.

Quote:
Besides that I would rather see an environment that focuses on quality products in terms of hardware and software instead of rushing out "new shiny buggy" products.
Agreed.

Quote:
Given all the above they have lost a lot of their credibility (if there is/was any left to loose) that HP calculators are better then their competitiors...
(But I guess, given the prices today for this machines includes beta-testing by the customer.)
You're running against open doors, but don't forget that HP calculators are probably the best investigated calculators of all. Do you know what problems hide inside a machine like a Casio xyz?

More important, HP is the only manufacturer left selling calculators *I* would use in science and engineering due to the feature set and ease of use. PRN/RPL is important in this respect to *me*.

                        
Re: HP 39GII
Message #7 Posted by Software49g on 17 Jan 2012, 4:13 a.m.,
in response to message #6 by Thomas Radtke

> contains no legacy code, and so is more
> maintainable by the calculator group.
Well, if they can not maintain their *old* code, now how will they be able to maintain the *new* code when it becomes legacy ?

> but imo *could* lead to a new machine that
> eventually surpass the 48G
So one *could* wait for a machine that *might* be available in a later uncertain future *but* what does one uses *now* ?

Again, all of that what would make up a 50gII is available *now*, with the benefit of *proven* code!
Somebody just needs to plug it all together (larger screen, more memory, O.S. fixes, language support, built-in help, improved EQNLIB, etc., etc.)
Could be done in 3-6 months with fewer effort...

SCNR,
Andreas
http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de

Edited: 17 Jan 2012, 4:24 a.m.

                              
Re: HP 39GII
Message #8 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 17 Jan 2012, 6:38 a.m.,
in response to message #7 by Software49g

Quote:
Well, if they can not maintain their *old* code, now how will they be able to maintain the *new* code when it becomes legacy ?
The calculator group has basically been kicked and reestablished. I wouldn't wonder if the codebase was lost in this process.

Quote:
So one *could* wait for a machine that *might* be available in a later uncertain future *but* what does one uses *now* ?
I'm using the 48G, others use the 49 or 50 models. No need to *wait* for anything until supply stops, right?

            
Re: HP 39GII
Message #9 Posted by Thomas Klemm on 17 Jan 2012, 7:14 a.m.,
in response to message #4 by Thomas Radtke

Quote:
it's great to have students sort out all bugs of the base system first

What makes you think HP will fix them?

Thomas

                  
Re: HP 39GII
Message #10 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 17 Jan 2012, 9:22 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by Thomas Klemm

Quote:
What makes you think HP will fix them?
Anything else would be plain stupid in the course of further developing the software towards more sophisticated models.

Edited: 17 Jan 2012, 9:23 a.m.

                        
Re: HP 39GII
Message #11 Posted by Software49g on 17 Jan 2012, 9:43 a.m.,
in response to message #10 by Thomas Radtke

> Anything else would be plain stupid
Now that would be something totally different from HP.
Like the TouchPad and WebOS, for example.
Or Expander, for example.
Or not fixing the already found bugs, for example.
Or ...

Looks like one needs a masochistic vein to stay with HP...
(And looks like as I got one ;-)

> I wouldn't wonder if the codebase was lost in this process.
Sometimes the code shows up again...

Regards,
Andreas
http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de

                              
Re: HP 39GII
Message #12 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 17 Jan 2012, 11:57 a.m.,
in response to message #11 by Software49g

Quote:
Sometimes the code shows up again...
Together with the people who are able to maintain it?

A new code base has the benefit of removing restrictions imposed by the obsolete hardware, and being better suited to the actual device. Power saving in an emulated device is more of an art than an exact science because you need to decide in the emulation layer what the original code is attempting. Strategies good on one platform, be it optimization for speed or for low power consumption, may fail on the emulating hardware. Emulation makes sense to conserve a given development until a replacement is available. Until...

                                    
Re: HP 39GII
Message #13 Posted by Software49g on 17 Jan 2012, 1:25 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by Marcus von Cube, Germany

> to conserve a given development until
> a replacement is available. Until...
You mean like the 12C that is running in an emulated environment for, say 10 years, now ?

> Together with the people who are able to maintain it?
Well, in my projects I always explain and explain and explain the importance of excellent documentation. And then I explain it once more.
Yes, it sometimes slows down progress to insist on documentation and it makes the project more expensive *but* it pays off in the long run.

I like new stuff but at the moment I see the 39gII nowhere close to a 50g replacement.

As I said in another post, HP had very, very little interest in the HP 50g the way they have been behaving with it in the past.
They rather leave this area for their competitors, like TI who keeps selling and selling the TI-83/84/89 and TI-Voyage 200, which, based on ancient hardware, is bought for around 200,00 !!!

So where did HP fail while TI succeeded ? (And new machine does not guarantee success in the market.)

Thank god I am only watching the game...

Regards,
Andreas
http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de

                                          
Re: HP 39GII
Message #14 Posted by NateB on 17 Jan 2012, 4:23 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by Software49g

Quote:
So where did HP fail while TI succeeded ?

They didn't make the transition from the 'professional' market to the educational market. Scientists and engineers moved from handheld programmable calculators to PC/software packages. Every year there is a new batch of children in need of a graphing calculator for their middle school or high school math class.

                                                
Re: HP 39GII
Message #15 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 17 Jan 2012, 5:05 p.m.,
in response to message #14 by NateB

If we look at what the machine does (or just at the type number) we can easily see what the intended market is: education. If you recall the earliest photos available, China comes into play here, a huge market. If that works, money will flow back to the calculator division which is good for all further development. Just believe the protagonists that HP is taking this business seriously, otherwise they would have withdrawn from the market a long time ago.

Now to a more technical detail, emulation. Andreas is citing the 12C and its newest incarnation. He's right that a new machine is emulating a very old design. The emulation layer is quite new, earlier attempts at reinventing the 12C, the platinum, were problematic because the latter is a reimplementation, alas, with mediocre success because neither the hardware nor the (outsourced) development team were in any sense 'leading edge'. The 12C legacy is kind of a mystery in that the customer base just wants to get the exact same thing again and again and again. Not very much room for improvement for the supplier. Here, emulation just isn't the worst thing that can be done.

On the other hand, a machine like the 50g devotes a complete overhaul, in the same way as the 39g was subject to a completely new design. The 50g is a very complex device. Emulating the outdated Saturn processor was the only economically viable way to bring something to the market that had a chance to do its job, especially taking into account the situation in the calculator division at the time in question. The effort was huge, simple things things like a larger screen turned out to be utterly complex to implement.

But today, things have changed. The work that had been put into the operating environment (CAS by Bernard Parisse, SYSRPL operating system) has long been put into more modern software by the same people (just try to find out about Bernard). So now, the calculator division which has been restaffed with brilliant heads like Cyrille and Tim is able to deliver something new and exiting without resorting to the old legacy code base. There isn't any 50gII yet, not even on the horizon, but the basis is there. Let's support the new device, at least give it a chance, and convince HP that they are doing the right things at the moment!

                                                      
Re: HP 39GII
Message #16 Posted by Software49g on 17 Jan 2012, 6:01 p.m.,
in response to message #15 by Marcus von Cube, Germany

> The effort was huge, simple things like a larger screen
> turned out to be utterly complex to implement.
Sorry Marcus - without going any further into details - the screen has nothing to do with the emulation.

It is simply a matter of organizing the sources and using defining code where appropriate.
If this hasn't been done, then the only people to blame are the ones working with the sources, period.
As a matter of fact, there are various applications in the ROM, like the 48GX Choose Box,
which is *laid out* for different screen resolutions.
And yes, there is code programmed in a rush which should have not gotten into the ROM at all.

Again, I am more than pretty sure that an update to the 50g can be done very quickly.
And if it is not done, than it means that HP sees no market for a machine like the 50g anymore
which, in conclusion, means that there is no market for a 50gII.

> the outdated Saturn processor
This outdated Saturn processor has 64bit registers, the ARM has only 32bit *today*.
The real pity is that the three pointer registers and the HW-RSTK are only 20bit.

> and convince HP that they are doing the right things at the moment!
I'd like to dream, too, but I have been watching HP calculators (and their decline) since school.

The fact is, that calculators are simply to unimportant for the Hewlett-Packard company nowadays.
The word "calculator" shows up three times in their 2010 annual report (180 pages) *but* no earnings are given.
HP has roughly 320.000 employees and 2 (in words: two) calculator engineers.

Greetings from cloud nine,
Andreas
http://www.software49g.gmxhome.de

P.S. SpeedUI from Raymond shows how much power can be unleashed in the Saturn.
How much of all this Megaherzs in the 39gII is (useless) eaten up from the O.S. and the HAL just to come up with re-inventing the wheel ?
Honestly, I am not too impressed...

                                                            
Re: HP 39GII
Message #17 Posted by Oliver Unter Ecker on 18 Jan 2012, 1:52 p.m.,
in response to message #16 by Software49g

Andreas,

Quote:
Again, I am more than pretty sure that an update to the 50g can be done very quickly. And if it is not done, than it means that HP sees no market for a machine like the 50g anymore which, in conclusion, means that there is no market for a 50gII.

I'm sure you're one of the few people on earth who could actually produce a 50g update, and that you're not wrong about it being possible to be done "very quickly" (for you, that is).

But, I think your reasoning here is flawed. The fact that HP is apparently not interested in an incremental update to the 50g, does not say anything about what they think about a future model.

It's been a decade without a truly new product, and releasing an incremental update *now* would be nothing short of a joke. You cannot impress and regain customers with a minor update, while the competition--with much larger resources--has improved by leaps and bounds. IMO, an incremental update would be completely unwise from almost every perspective: marketing, technoloy, use of resources, etc. (And, given that you don't work for HP... there's probably no one around to even do this.)

Why spend one dollar, one hour, on a 100% dead-end avenue?

I find Tim's note amazingly open and encouraging. It tells me the calculator group and ambitious product plans are alive. Building a generational upgrade is to be lauded, and I don't see any reason for negativity about this.

It sounds like they're using modern technology to recreate the feature set in a better way. That sounds like the only proper way to go to me. (SysRPL is *no* way to design a modern calculator!)

So, to me this is great (unexpectedly great) news.

                                                                  
Re: HP 39GII
Message #18 Posted by bill platt on 18 Jan 2012, 7:44 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Oliver Unter Ecker

You build for a market.

IF that is Chinese students, then so be it, and HP should go at it full force!

We old-timers will continue to enjoy our dinosaur technology--I know I will :-)

                                                                        
Re: HP 39GII
Message #19 Posted by Oliver Unter Ecker on 19 Jan 2012, 5:11 a.m.,
in response to message #18 by bill platt

Quote:
You build for a market.

Yes, but in tech you often shape (or even create) the market too.

One of Steve Jobs' famous lines is "The customer doesn't know what they want." It worked out for Apple, didn't it?

If HP has a spine, they'll continue to have RPN in their future high-end machines. Because *they* know it's better for many use cases. The customer will come around to it, if the explaining is made so that it actually sounds as simple as it is. (Starting an explanation of what RPN is with that it stands for "Reverse Polish Notation", however, is guarantee for instant implosion of interest in newbies.)

Nothing wrong with Algebraic and RPN living in perfect harmony, btw.

Algebraic is often derided here as inferior, but I've not (in my one year here) seen a discussion about what's intimately tied to both: stack vs. notebook.

If you assume former, RPN is the way to go (and you can prove it with keystroke counts, and chaining behavior) and RPL is the *natural and simplest* programming language.

If you assume latter, ALG has the clear edge (because entry looks like math on paper) and any of most modern programming languages, with their free (and robust, highly-optimized) implementations, are the way to go.

A calculator--even in smartphone or tablet form--is different from a computer-based math environment, in how it's used. (Even if there were feature-parity.) Picked up for a few seconds, a few calculations done, little programs want to be written with least of amount of effort and keystrokes.

These observations benefit to keeping the stack and RPN/RPL around.

An example: << sqrt >>

You have two chars to key in to write this program.

There *is* no more efficient program than this here to take the square root of: a number, a complex number, all elements of a vector/list, an algebraic expression, etc.

A stack gives you zero declarative overhead for inputs and outputs. RPL gives you a richer host of math-relevant types than any stock computer language I know, and you can start using it as soon as you know that a program starts with << and is, in its simplest form, just a chain of the instructions you'd apply in interactive mode.

I'm *hoping* (and kinda trust) HP knows that what they created isn't dinosaur technology, and that this tech will be moved into new (possibly hybrid) machines.

Edited: 19 Jan 2012, 5:17 a.m.

                                                                              
Re: HP 39GII
Message #20 Posted by bill platt on 19 Jan 2012, 12:09 p.m.,
in response to message #19 by Oliver Unter Ecker

Personally, I think the coolest thing in concept is the 48 series with an RPN stack and algebraic objects on that stack. But the RPL language is different from RPN program spaces and so that has always been a source of vexation not only to legacy (rPN) users, but surely to HP marketing as well.

I really really like the 17b solver paradigm. It is actually easier to use than the 48 series solver, even though it would seem to be derived from it. I use the 48 solver as often as the 17b--but even now I trip up occasionally in its use for some reason. Perhaps I should RTFM yet again.

I agree that HP should not throw away the baby with the bathwater. RPL is a foundation worth building on.

                                                                                    
Re: HP 39GII
Message #21 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 19 Jan 2012, 12:36 p.m.,
in response to message #20 by bill platt

You may be right with RPL but SYSRPL is definitely not the way of further development.

                                                      
Re: HP 39GII
Message #22 Posted by Oliver Unter Ecker on 18 Jan 2012, 2:00 p.m.,
in response to message #15 by Marcus von Cube, Germany

Very nice post, Marcus.

I second your thoughts about emulation and wish to add one (obvious) thing: for the 12C (now and the one in 10 years), there're no performance reasons not to emulate. Nor is there a growing feature set to consider. For a 50g successor, there would be both.

Really, let's not dismiss that the HP guys might just know what they're doing.

                                                
Re: HP 39GII
Message #23 Posted by bill platt on 18 Jan 2012, 7:39 p.m.,
in response to message #14 by NateB

Yes, this is true.

To me, the most exciting thing in handhelds is the smartphones--not because they do phone and email (BORING!) but because of the *instrumentation* and *toolmaking* possibilities. The combination of accelerometer, GPS, camera (CCD?), microphone, and what else? You could have a flux-gate compass, you could have a number of others---these sub-systems combined with a powerful processor and a color graphics display have made all of the fascinating applications possible, from the adorable carpenter's level, all the way up to a FFT spectrum analyzer, etc. By building handhelds with really good specifications (say high bandwidth microphones) and adding some RF capability (can you say frequency counter) they can revolutionize the whole market for effective handheld instrumentation!

Who needs a calculator when you can have it all...

      
Re: HP 39GII
Message #24 Posted by hpnut on 16 Jan 2012, 11:48 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by NateB

does it have RPN?

            
Re: HP 39GII
Message #25 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 16 Jan 2012, 1:11 p.m.,
in response to message #24 by hpnut

No!

            
Re: HP 39GII
Message #26 Posted by bill platt on 16 Jan 2012, 1:54 p.m.,
in response to message #24 by hpnut

who cares? :-)

      
Re: HP 39GII
Message #27 Posted by Mike Morrow on 16 Jan 2012, 4:27 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by NateB

I think this is very welcome news. It seems to indicate that an HP 50g-class (or better) machine may be in the future. One that does not emulate the old terribly obsolete Saturn. One that has an attractive keyboard (as the 39gii seems to have).

Such a non-emulated machine must be blindingly fast, which the 49g+ and 50g never have been.

I'm not too wild about the four parallel AA-cells. Two paralleled primary cells have always seemed to be very bad engineering for self-discharge. Four would be much worse.

I also would prefer to see the cursor key set replaced by four separate keys (three in line, one below) just as found on the HP 48GX series.

Also, place the ENTER key above the /, X, -, + keys, not below it.

Ensure that the features of the Development Library are included (minus, of course, all the Saturn garbage).

Finally, put some decent feet on the bottom (like on the HP 30b). I've lost several of the tiny little micro feet on my HP 49g+ and HP 50g units, and I don't know where replacements can be obtained. The HP 30b feet are much more substantial and seem much more permanent.

In any event, there seems to be something good to anticipate.

            
Re: HP 39GII
Message #28 Posted by Lyuka on 17 Jan 2012, 8:44 a.m.,
in response to message #27 by Mike Morrow

Quote:
Two paralleled primary cells have always seemed to be very bad engineering for self-discharge.

Nowadays, we can use a hot-swap controller such as LTC4227-1 for redundant power supply.
I hope HP will choose such a straightforward way to manage multiple batteries.

Lyuka

            
Re: HP 39GII
Message #29 Posted by Crawl on 17 Jan 2012, 1:24 p.m.,
in response to message #27 by Mike Morrow

Quote:
I think this is very welcome news. It seems to indicate that an HP 50g-class (or better) machine may be in the future.

I agree. That they're willing to show this level of care is very promising; however, what I really want to see is them turning that level of care towards a CAS machine.

                  
Re: HP 39GII
Message #30 Posted by Crawl on 17 Jan 2012, 2:03 p.m.,
in response to message #29 by Crawl

Quote:
hey wouldn't it be cool to have a gold calculator

And aside from how that looked, the big problem with that was that the gold paint delaminated. It was just a bad idea all around.

                  
Re: HP 39GII
Message #31 Posted by Oliver Unter Ecker on 18 Jan 2012, 2:13 p.m.,
in response to message #29 by Crawl

I hear ya.

Of course, this is a way more complicated affair. (Though entirely solvable if they license something existing.)

One thing that speaks for eventually getting to a CAS is, that it seems to be the 2nd most important reason why people want a calculator these days.

Different to the feelings of most of us here, RPN, any level of programmability, double-wide Enter keys (and other esoterics) play almost no role these days, in comparison to interactive graphing abilities and, as second priority (for a different set of people), CAS abilities.

I've learned the hard way with my own project that, by and large, people don't care about programmability. (Which, to me, even though I get the message by now, is still utterly amazing...)

To back up these notions, look at what calculator apps are the best sellers for mobile devices.

HP going after a new educational market (China) is a brilliant tactic to regain a foothold. (I'm guessing here that TI hasn't yet infiltrated the Chinese high-school text books...)

Edited: 18 Jan 2012, 2:13 p.m.

      
Re: HP 39GII
Message #32 Posted by Bart (UK) on 19 Jan 2012, 6:39 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by NateB

I think this is very welcome news.

I am really happy about this. A completely new design is long overdue. Companies that live in the past are doomed. I know there are a lot of "hangers on" for previous HP calculators, but they are not the future - their buying power is diminishing, selling to specialist groups (engineers, scietists, financiers etc.) is the past, wider appeal and market penetration is where it's at.

To Tim and the calculator team - you have my praise and full support for this move. I just can't wait for it (or similar) to be released in the West (particularly the UK where i live ;-).

Best regards,

Bart


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