HP Forum Archive 20

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15C LE finally arrived Message #1 Posted by Hal Bitton in Boise on 27 Dec 2011, 12:03 a.m. My 15C LE finally arrived on Christmas eve. My wife stuck a bow on the mailing envelope and told me I couldn't open it until the next morning. Anyway, for the record, I'm very happy with it. Key detents feel great, and all the keys register perfectly. And it is fast...my '85 15C finds a root for x^2 -3x-10 in about 15 seconds, compared to about 1/2 second for the 15C LE. Can anyone think of another instance of a company bringing back a product 22 years after it was discontinued due to popular demand? This is rather unprecedented, isn't it? Seems to me HP could capitalize on this with some sort of advertising campaign. Happy new year to all ! Hal

Re: 15C LE finally arrived Message #2 Posted by David Griffith on 27 Dec 2011, 12:29 a.m., in response to message #1 by Hal Bitton in Boise Hopefully this can lead to an HP35s done right. For instance, ditch the directional buttons and adopt the layout of the 30b, keep the LCD, fix the bugs, use menu keys like the 32sii, and make it updatable.

Re: 15C LE finally arrived Message #3 Posted by Alexander Oestert on 27 Dec 2011, 2:33 a.m., in response to message #2 by David Griffith Quote: Hopefully this can lead to an HP35s done right. I would be pleased if it would lead to a HP 15c LE done right ;-(

Re: 15C LE finally arrived Message #4 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 27 Dec 2011, 9:03 a.m., in response to message #2 by David Griffith Quote: Hopefully this can lead to an HP35s done right. It already exists. It's called the hp 33s.

Re: 15C LE finally arrived Message #5 Posted by Keith Beyer on 27 Dec 2011, 10:22 p.m., in response to message #2 by David Griffith Quote: Hopefully this can lead to an HP35s done right. For instance, ditch the directional buttons and adopt the layout of the 30b, keep the LCD, fix the bugs, use menu keys like the 32sii, and make it updatable. I agree. I would use my 35s much more if it weren't so confusing to use compared to my other HP calcs. One of the big appeals of the 15C LE is I already know where everything is on the keyboard and how to use the calculator. The 35s with a 2 line display was a great idea, just not well executed.

Re: 15C LE finally arrived Message #6 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 28 Dec 2011, 9:37 a.m., in response to message #5 by Keith Beyer The 33s also has a 2-line display, and is almost identical in layout and functionality to a 32Sii. It has the same R<>P conversion, same separate STO and RCL primary keys, same minus sign nicely centered on the mantissa. And for all it's superior features, it costs $20 less. So, IMO the 35s is in many ways a step backwards. About the only superior feature is the less cluttered layout of the shifted functions with the sloping keys, which incidentally they copied from the 15C.

Re: 15C LE finally arrived Message #7 Posted by Jeff Kearns on 29 Dec 2011, 12:06 a.m., in response to message #6 by Michael de Estrada I agree. Given the choice, I would pick the 33s over the 35s, even though the latter 'looks nicer' and has the BIG Enter key in the right place with more efficient use of the available memory for programming and use of labels and line number addressing. The 33s, despite its reputation for having a funky chevron keyboard, and a moderate list of bugs - see link below (some of which seem to have been addressed in later releases post 2005... but not the trigonometric bug) has a reliable keyboard with positive feedback and a great display. It is also faster than the 35s. It really is the successor to the 32sii. The 35s with its unreliable keyboard and especially without R>P conversion on the keyboard as well as other nuisances, falls short of the mark. It could have been a real winner. HP 33s Bug Discussion HP 35S Bug List Regards, Jeff Kearns

Re: 15C LE finally arrived Message #8 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 29 Dec 2011, 6:53 a.m., in response to message #7 by Jeff Kearns From what was written in a different thread, issue 15 from the 35s bug list also applies to the 33s. I cannot confirm this as I have no 33s, so it would be kind if anyone could check and update the list.

Re: 15C LE finally arrived Message #9 Posted by Ethan Conner on 27 Dec 2011, 2:58 a.m., in response to message #1 by Hal Bitton in Boise It's happened in the automotive industry. The one that comes to mind is the T-bird by Ford. However the 69 Camaro has been back in production under license for several years now and this year the 64 Mustang is available again also under license.

Re: 15C LE finally arrived Message #10 Posted by John B. Smitherman on 27 Dec 2011, 9:29 a.m., in response to message #9 by Ethan Conner As well as the VW Beetle and Mini Cooper. John

Re: 15C LE finally arrived Message #11 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 27 Dec 2011, 9:35 a.m., in response to message #10 by John B. Smitherman Except that the New Beetle is not Buggy :-)

Re: 15C LE finally arrived Message #12 Posted by Glenn Shields on 27 Dec 2011, 9:54 p.m., in response to message #11 by Gerson W. Barbosa The New Beetle is a good example of the kind of corporate thinking that we need: my wife has a 2006 that has had some serious problems, but most all were fixed under warranty, and she continues to love this car. If only HP would really embrace the "Das Auto" campaign: "Give the people what they want..." Regards, Glenn

Bringing back old products Message #13 Posted by Steve Leibson on 27 Dec 2011, 11:57 a.m., in response to message #1 by Hal Bitton in Boise "Can anyone think of another instance of a company bringing back a product 22 years after it was discontinued due to popular demand?" Actually, Chrysler just announced the return of the Dodge Dart after a 40-year absence.

Re: Bringing back old products Message #14 Posted by Dave Mabry on 27 Dec 2011, 2:29 p.m., in response to message #13 by Steve Leibson Quote: "Can anyone think of another instance of a company bringing back a product 22 years after it was discontinued due to popular demand?" Actually, Chrysler just announced the return of the Dodge Dart after a 40-year absence. Just the name...NOT the car!

Re: Bringing back old products Message #15 Posted by DigiGal on 28 Dec 2011, 7:53 p.m., in response to message #14 by Dave Mabry Quote: "Can anyone think of another instance of a company bringing back a product 22 years after it was discontinued due to popular demand?" Don't know if it was due to popular demand but here's one with a Reboot Retro look as well as a new full lineup... Brand New Commodore 64 link... Edited: 28 Dec 2011, 7:55 p.m.

Re: Bringing back old products Message #16 Posted by David Griffith on 29 Dec 2011, 12:46 a.m., in response to message #15 by DigiGal It's nothing more than a PC in an ersatz C64 shell. They couldn't even put the control key in the right place.

Re: Bringing back old products Message #17 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 29 Dec 2011, 4:51 a.m., in response to message #16 by David Griffith It's not even a C64 breadbox. It's one that takes oversized bread. Plus the four function keys are so called 'multimedia keys' :-/

Re: Bringing back old products Message #18 Posted by Steve Leibson on 28 Dec 2011, 10:26 p.m., in response to message #14 by Dave Mabry Nah, there has to be a car too. No one will pay Chrysler just for a name.

Re: Bringing back old products Message #19 Posted by bill platt on 28 Dec 2011, 11:16 p.m., in response to message #18 by Steve Leibson it will be as much Dart as the new Charger is charger, and the new Camaro is camaro, in other words, in name only. If you want it to be dart, first, it has to be ugly. Second, it has to have a carburator. Third, it has to refuse to go around a turn. 4th, it has to have 500 lb chrome bumpers. 6, it has to look like there is no bottom to the car, because it rusted out after the 1st 6 months. Edited: 28 Dec 2011, 11:18 p.m.

Re: Bringing back old products Message #20 Posted by Vince (Italy) on 29 Dec 2011, 1:58 p.m., in response to message #14 by Dave Mabry Quote: Just the name...NOT the car! The same thing as for the 15c LA. Just the name, not the calculator. The 15c LE is a hardware emulator of the original calculator. It's faster, but it isn't a real 15c

Re: Bringing back old products Message #21 Posted by Eric Smith on 29 Dec 2011, 2:30 p.m., in response to message #20 by Vince (Italy) There's simulation going on, but it is running the firmware of the original 15C, with only a few minor tweaks. There were also hardware changes between a 1983 15C and a 1988 15C, yet I don't recall anyone complaining that the 1988 model wasn't a real 15C.

Re: Bringing back old products Message #22 Posted by Vince (Italy) on 29 Dec 2011, 3:08 p.m., in response to message #21 by Eric Smith I understand your point. But, anyway, the underlying hardware utterly differs from the original one. The firmware is running on a totally different platform. Several software emulators running on PC platform use the original firmware; they remain emulators anyway There surely are some differences between a 1983 15C and a 1988 15C, but they are alterations made by HP in order to somehow improve the original project. The 15C LE is an entirely new machine manufactured by Kinpo. I'm not a "serious" collector, because actually the serious collector should extend his/her collection following precise criteria; the only criterion I adopt is the subjective aesthetic sense: if I like a calculator, I buy it (without spending my last euro, of course). However, from a (serious or not) collector perspective the 15C LE should have little or no value (besides the commercial value, I mean). But perhaps I'm going wrong... Edited: 30 Dec 2011, 1:11 a.m. after one or more responses were posted

Re: Bringing back old products Message #23 Posted by Ethan Conner on 29 Dec 2011, 4:28 p.m., in response to message #22 by Vince (Italy) All i know is people keep buying the LE and haven't heard of anyone giving them back so it must be "real" enough.

Re: Bringing back old products Message #24 Posted by Vince (Italy) on 30 Dec 2011, 5:04 a.m., in response to message #23 by Ethan Conner I wouldn't like to be misunderstood as a result of my bad command of the English language; hurting anyone's feelings has never been my intention, and I apologize, if I unintentionally did it. I'll try to explain my point in a more exhaustive way, hoping to succeed in making myself clearer. In my opinion, the use of a calculator on a regular and methodical basis in (not just) professional contexts is a little anachronistic. And it must not be only my opinion, considering the difference between the wide assortment of models (not only from HP) available a couple of decades ago, and the current limited one. There are several ways to accomplish the same tasks in a "better, faster, cheaper" manner. Nevertheless, many people still use calculators; and I obviously find it very understandable, considering that I am with them, reading (and rarely writing) some posts on this forum. And many people use "old" calculators, not the new ones, although the newer calculators are a lot faster and more efficient. Somehow, it would be indicative of a passion for calculators that surpasses their practical use; hence, calculators must have an appeal that doesn't directly correlate with their function. This concept, in general, usually constitutes the basis of the collecting. On the other hand,we observe here several occurences that are anomalous in collectors' enviroments. Every collector attaches fundamental importance to the genuineness of each item. The item has to be authentic, not tampered with. This principle someway clashes with the success met by the 15C LE, sold at up to 500$ on eBay. And still on eBay, I saw two seller refurbished 42s, one simply repaired, the other one improved as well (memory increased up 32k, overclocked), the latter obviously not being a valid instance of the original model. Well, the second calculator has been sold at a higher price than the first one. Such situations seem to indicate that, in the current calculators' market, three distinct groups act: the advanced users (or hardened users of such a beautiful tool), the investors (or, if you like, the scalpers), and the collectors. Introducing the 15C LE on the market obviously satisfies the first group, and evidently the second too. But not the group of the collectors, of which I consider myself an (unworthy) exponent. So, if some members of the first group have bought the 15C LE, it's obvious that they don't regret it. But as it don't represent (currently, at least) a collectible item,as the real 15C is, paying it five times its commercial value makes little or no sense. That's all. I only intended to express this idea, without offending anyone. Warm regards Vince Edited: 30 Dec 2011, 10:15 a.m. after one or more responses were posted

Re: Bringing back old products Message #25 Posted by Martin Pinckney on 30 Dec 2011, 9:44 a.m., in response to message #24 by Vince (Italy) Quote: In my opinion, the use of a calculator on a regular and methodical basis in (not just) professional contexts is a little anachronistic ... There are several ways to accomplish the same tasks in a "better, faster, cheaper" manner. Nevertheless, many people still use calculators... I for one use them because they are in fact better, faster, if not cheaper, for the purposes I use them - having considerable computing power at hand (literally) without moving to a different location (where a PC is) and loading up a specific program. Quote: And many people use "old" calculators, not the new ones, although the newer calculators are a lot faster and more efficient. I for one use older calculators because they are in fact better, if not faster, than the newer ones.

Re: Bringing back old products Message #26 Posted by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr. on 31 Dec 2011, 9:43 p.m., in response to message #24 by Vince (Italy) The best explanation for the idea of Quote: a passion for calculators that surpasses their practical use; hence, calculators must have an appeal that doesn't directly correlate with their function. is to simply recognize that cult-like characteristics are involved.

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