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HP-71B Forth Module
Message #1 Posted by Nick Taylor on 3 Nov 2011, 7:17 a.m.

I've been searching with Google to try to find out as much information about Forth on the HP-71B.

I keep stumbling across the following two Module part numbers:

82478a 82441a

Both of which seem to be linked with the Forth module.

Given how unlikely I am to find one, and then afford it (!), can anyone enlighten me as to which of these I should try to find in order to use Forth on the HP-71B?

Thanks

Nick

      
Re: HP-71B Forth Module
Message #2 Posted by Egan Ford on 3 Nov 2011, 10:14 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Nick Taylor

You want to get HP-41 Translator Pac for the HP-71 (HP 82490A) or HP-71B Forth/Assembler ROM (HP 82441A). Both can be run under EMU71 emulation and the docs can be had on the MoHPC DVDs. I cannot tell you if the FORTH is exactly the same or not on both. I think it is.

I use the HP-41 Translator Pac for the HP-71 (HP 82490A) on my 71B as well as in EMU71.

Some of my 71B FORTH Pi Programs (if you are interested):

http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv019.cgi?read=147662

http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv019.cgi?read=148399

            
Re: HP-71B Forth Module
Message #3 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 3 Nov 2011, 1:35 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Egan Ford

Quote:
You want to get HP-41 Translator Pac for the HP-71 (HP 82490A) or HP-71B Forth/Assembler ROM (HP 82441A). Both can be run under EMU71 emulation and the docs can be had on the MoHPC DVDs. I cannot tell you if the FORTH is exactly the same or not on both. I think it is.

You're wrong, Egan, the FORTHs are distinct and what's worse, incompatible.

All in all, I'd rather have the FORTH/Assembler ROM than the HP-41 Translator Pac because I see no real use nowadays for HP-41 programs translated to run in the HP-71B while using the Assembler to create and compile your own binary subprograms, FORTH primitives, and custom LEX keywords still holds some magic.

Best regards from V.

                  
Re: HP-71B Forth Module
Message #4 Posted by Egan Ford on 3 Nov 2011, 4:20 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Valentin Albillo

Quote:
the FORTHs are distinct and what's worse, incompatible.
Thanks for the clarification. As far as I could tell from the documentation the FORTHs are the same. All I could find:

So the FORTHs are source compatible and the same in that sense.

Edited: 3 Nov 2011, 4:22 p.m.

      
Re: HP-71B Forth Module
Message #5 Posted by Frido Bohn on 3 Nov 2011, 10:29 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Nick Taylor

HP 82478A - Debugger for the HP-71: Simulator of assembly language
Provided as LEX files to be copied into RAM from mass media.

HP 82441A - Forth/Assmbler ROM: Development environment in Forth/Assembler. Provided as (hardware) ROM.

The debugger may work as a kind of expansion of the Forth/Assembler ROM, but the ROM is what you are seeking for.

If you want to play with it you should use Emu71 and the emulator-based ROM. Visit Christoph Gie▀elink's and Jean-Franšois Garnier's pages.

      
Re: HP-71B Forth Module
Message #6 Posted by Garth Wilson on 3 Nov 2011, 11:24 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Nick Taylor

I can't tell you the differences between the two, but I have the 82441A Forth/Assembler module, and I will comment that it is a really lousy implementation of Forth. I can't believe how slow many of the Forth words are. But, being Forth, it allows you to raplace words with your own definitions and speed them up. Re-writing many of them in Forth as secondaries, ie, without even using assembly and writing primitives, I was able to improve their speed by a factor of anywhere from two to fourteen! (CHR$ was the one I made 14x as fast.)

Edited: 3 Nov 2011, 11:27 a.m.

            
Re: HP-71B Forth Module
Message #7 Posted by Pete Wilson on 3 Nov 2011, 4:36 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by Garth Wilson

The FORTH/Assembler ROM is definitely great - especially the SATURN manual that was included.

I used it to disassemble the 48SX ROM initially.

      
Re: HP-71B Forth Module
Message #8 Posted by Christoph Giesselink on 3 Nov 2011, 5:29 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Nick Taylor

Some month ago I also gone through the Internet searching for HP71B ROM module numbers. That's what I found about this:

HP 82441A was the number of the first Forth/Assembler ROM. This package did not contain the Debugger LEX files. Later the Forth/Assembler ROM was republished with the Debugger LEX files and new package got the number HP 82478A.

At this time I made a cross reference list with all HP ROM module numbers and labels I found:

Number cross reference list

HP 82441A HP-71 FORTH ASSEMBLER (without Debugger) HP 82478A 5061-7234 HP-71 FORTH ASSEMBLER HP 82479A 5061-7290 DATA ACQ HP 82480A 5061-7226 HP-71 MATH HP 82481A 5061-7237 AC CIRCUIT HP 82482A 5061-7239 FINANCE HP 82483A 5061-7238 SURVEYING HP 82484A 5061-7241 CURVE FIT HP 82485A 5061-7240 TEXT EDITOR HP 82488A 5061-7271 DATA COMM HP 82489A 5061-7270 AMPI STATISTICS HP 82490A 5061-7269 HP-71 41 TRANSLATOR

If somebody may recognize a mistake in the list above, don't hesitate to correct me.

Christoph

            
Re: HP-71B Forth Module
Message #9 Posted by Paul Berger (Canada) on 3 Nov 2011, 9:36 p.m.,
in response to message #8 by Christoph Giesselink

Hmmm that means I got the second version of the Forth/Assembler ROM but unfortunately I did not get the debugger LEX files.

                  
Re: HP-71B Forth Module
Message #10 Posted by Didier Lachieze on 4 Nov 2011, 3:32 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by Paul Berger (Canada)

With the magic of Google Newsgroup archive, the original announcement of the Forth/assembler debugger on net.micro.hp is still available on-line 25 years later:
HP-71 FORTH/Assembler Debugger .

Edited: 4 Nov 2011, 3:33 a.m.


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