HP Forum Archive 20

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HP 12c Video and HP 15c questions Message #1 Posted by Brandon Poindexter on 1 Sept 2011, 6:13 p.m. HP 12c 30th AE Video An interesting video I found if anybody hasn't seen it. I'm mostly interested in the HP 15c but in any case: Some question pop up from this. 1) She talks briefly about how you can etch one's name onto the back. Has this always been the case? if not will the HP allow one to order an HP 15c with their names etched on? 2)She also says that the price "starts" at $79.99. But the HP shop website lists as $84.99 for the HP 12c. I don't want to sound like a cheapstake but if the HP 15c can be had for $5 less as well that would be great. Buying books and paying the billing statement for my sophomore year has took a huge toll on my banking account. . . Anyway I'm probably going to get the HP 15c regardless if i cant do those two above. Can't wait! Thanks HP! Edited: 1 Sept 2011, 6:15 p.m.

Re: HP 12c Video and HP 15c questions Message #2 Posted by Laura (San Diego) on 1 Sept 2011, 6:32 p.m., in response to message #1 by Brandon Poindexter Hello, These calcs have not always had a place where you can etch your name in the back, but I don't think that feature is unique to the anniversary version. Pricing on the HP Store is problematic and should be revised soon. The MSRP for the 12c 30th Annviersary is $79.99, and it's $99.99 for the 15c.

Re: HP 12c Video and HP 15c questions Message #3 Posted by M. Joury on 1 Sept 2011, 8:20 p.m., in response to message #2 by Laura (San Diego) They are both currently posted at $99.99. It is $84.99 with the %15 discount that is currently being offered for all calcs. So the 15C is posted correctly and the 12C will drop considerably in price if it becomes available before the sale expires. Cheers, -Marwan

Re: HP 12c Video and HP 15c questions Message #4 Posted by Glenn Dowdy on 1 Sept 2011, 6:55 p.m., in response to message #1 by Brandon Poindexter Quote: [link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bqH4JZZM1E]Some question pop up from this. 1) She talks briefly about how you can etch one's name onto the back. Has this always been the case? if not will the HP allow one to order an HP 15c with their names etched on? You can certainly order any of our calculators with a request for you name to be etched on the back, but alas, we don't have the capability to fulfill that part of the order. You'll need to source that service locally. Besides, you can't etch on vapor anyway, can you?

Re: HP 12c Video and HP 15c questions Message #5 Posted by Jake Schwartz on 1 Sept 2011, 8:14 p.m., in response to message #1 by Brandon Poindexter Hi, In that video, she says that RPN became the "standard" in financial calculators as a result of the 12C, but I wonder if the 1973 release of (probably) the world's first financial handheld calc, the HP80 (also an RPN machine) didn't have a good deal to do with it as well. The HP80 got an 8-page cover story in the May, 1973 Hewlett-Packard Journal. And, of course, there were an assortment of other HP financial machines between the HP80 and the 12C, namely the HP70, HP22, HP37E, HP92 and the HP38E/C, all sporting RPN and all which probably helped popularize the financial RPN paradigm. Jake

Re: HP 12c Video and HP 15c questions Message #6 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 1 Sept 2011, 9:42 p.m., in response to message #5 by Jake Schwartz I don't know about the HP-80 having much effect on the use of RPN in finance it wasn't very affordable even by wall street types back in the day. While I only started working on "the street" in early 1981, the only HP calculator I recall seeing at a few places before the 12C was the the HP-41. In this video Greta says that "a few components are different" between the 12C and the 12C+, someone needs to get her up to speed on this. The 150x speed up should be a big selling point and she doens't even mention that.

Re: HP 12c Video and HP 15c questions Message #7 Posted by uhmgawa on 2 Sept 2011, 1:58 a.m., in response to message #6 by Katie Wasserman Quote: In this video Greta says that "a few components are different" between the 12C and the 12C+, someone needs to get her up to speed on this. There aren't more than a few components in either version, but that presentation did seem rather informal. Quote: The 150x speed up should be a big selling point and she doens't even mention that. That number seems to be actively groomed by the marketing department and AFAICT keeps getting bigger. Anyone know what benchmark is being used to derive that figure of merit?

Re: HP 12c Video and HP 15c questions Message #8 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 2 Sept 2011, 3:20 a.m., in response to message #7 by uhmgawa I don't have a 15C+ to run tests on but I do have an original 12C and a 12C+ and have run many tests. Assuming the latest version of the firmware (it has some emulator enhancements) I have found that all programs and long amortizations run roughly 150 times faster on the 12C+. I'm pretty sure that the 12C+ and the 15C+ are running exactly the same emulator so the 15C+ should run 150x faster than the 15C.

Re: HP 12c Video and HP 15c questions Message #9 Posted by Glenn Dowdy on 2 Sept 2011, 7:54 a.m., in response to message #7 by uhmgawa Quote: That number seems to be actively groomed by the marketing department and AFAICT keeps getting bigger. Anyone know what benchmark is being used to derive that figure of merit? Cyrille and Tim do, and marketing is getting their information directly from those guys.

Re: HP 12c Video and HP 15c questions Message #10 Posted by Lincoln R. on 2 Sept 2011, 1:18 a.m., in response to message #1 by Brandon Poindexter Also, she claims that the 30th anniversary calculator has the double injection molded keys like the original. Do we know if that's correct or not? I have a 12c+ and it looks painted so I figured the new 12c and 15c would be the same.

Re: HP 12c Video and HP 15c questions Message #11 Posted by Tim Wessman on 2 Sept 2011, 2:04 a.m., in response to message #10 by Lincoln R. It is the same. TW

Re: HP 12c Video and HP 15c questions Message #12 Posted by uhmgawa on 2 Sept 2011, 2:04 a.m., in response to message #10 by Lincoln R. Quote: Also, she claims that the 30th anniversary calculator has the double injection molded keys like the original. Do we know if that's correct or not? I have a 12c+ and it looks painted so I figured the new 12c and 15c would be the same. I caught that too. And from the related comment made yesterday by Tim Wessman, it could be interpreted as the injected key legends have returned. If so that could leave only the lower contrast LCD of the arm7 voyagers as the last design tradeoff in favor of the legacy models.

12c and 15c LE key structure? Message #13 Posted by Gene Wright on 2 Sept 2011, 7:45 a.m., in response to message #12 by uhmgawa Tim can correct me here, but the keys are NOT double-injection moulded. I believe it is something more like there is a depression on the top of the key in the shape of the key legend (?) and the spray color function goes into this depression. This means as the key wears down, the function label wears down a bit with it. This explanation was given to me by someone at HP, and I was skeptical. :-) Tim?

Re: 12c and 15c LE key structure? Message #14 Posted by uhmgawa on 2 Sept 2011, 9:31 a.m., in response to message #13 by Gene Wright Quote: I believe it is something more like there is a depression on the top of the key in the shape of the key legend (?) and the spray color function goes into this depression. This means as the key wears down, the function label wears down a bit with it. This explanation was given to me by someone at HP, and I was skeptical. :-) Interesting. Actually that's essentially what I'd been proposing as a means to repurpose key caps of existing devices. Engraving the surface via CNC and filling with a non-shrinking medium such as epoxy paint would approximate the service life of conventional double shot molded keys without the astronomical tooling costs. CNC isn't strictly needed and even a pantograph with suitable fixturing can easily get one through the basement prototype. Ironically for repurposing (vs. original manufacturing) surface painted key caps are preferable as the thin legend can be polished off yielding a flat surface for the engraving operation. Double shot or previously engraved blanks aren't really suitable as-is since the former legend by design can't be obscured by superficial abrasion and substantial material must be removed from the blank to allow a "retread" operation. But that becomes complex in terms of maintaining the original profile and color matching. Probably easier to just manufacture suitable key blanks in the first place. Or possibly one could approach whatever subcontractor in China is injection molding the current key blanks to buy unprinted prototype stock.

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