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15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #1 Posted by Lincoln R. on 24 Aug 2011, 7:33 a.m.

This seems to have appeared, wonder how long it'll stay up. http://www8.hp.com/us/en/products/printers/product-detail.html?oid=5153395

      
Re: 15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #2 Posted by robertoataulfo on 24 Aug 2011, 7:49 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Lincoln R.

Addition loop test, completed in HP labs. Up to 100X faster than original HP 15c. :-))

            
Re: 15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #3 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 24 Aug 2011, 11:06 a.m.,
in response to message #2 by robertoataulfo

Assuming it uses the exact same emulator inside the latest version of the 12C+ -- I see no reason why it should not -- then it should run 150x faster than the original 15c.

                  
Re: 15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #4 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 24 Aug 2011, 11:31 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by Katie Wasserman

What is the battery life on the 12C+ ?

                        
Re: 15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #5 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 24 Aug 2011, 12:15 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Michael de Estrada

Quote:
What is the battery life on the 12C+ ?

So-so. Here are my approximate current measurements:

OFF = 0.004 mA
ON/idle = 0.05 mA
ON/running AMORT or tight loop = 20 mA

The two CR2032 cells have a combined capacity of about 450 mAh (depending on brand) at a standard current draw of 0.2ma. So the OFF state current draw is fine, implying a "shelf life" of 12 years.

The ON/idle state implies a lifetime of about 1 year, still pretty good.

However the running time is horrible, since the capacity of these cells drops precipitously beyond their standard rating of .2 ma. Manufacturers don't rate these to work at 20ma, so I can only guess (or test, I suppose) the capacity at 20ma. If I had to guess I'd say it's about 40mAh. Giving the calculator about 4 hours of continuous run-time use -- it might be less than this.

If you're not running "loopy" programs however, the quick 20ma current burst won't kill the batteries nearly as fast as a continuous draw. So basic math functions should allow for decent battery life.

-Katie

Edited: 24 Aug 2011, 12:15 p.m.

                              
Re: 15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #6 Posted by Pal G. on 24 Aug 2011, 1:14 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Katie Wasserman

Katie,

I enjoy reading your posts. Can you give us a rough estimate (years?) for "decent battery life", and without me having to search the forums, can you tell us the estimated battery life of the original 15c or 12c?

I am wondering how close the old and new compare for folks who do not run "loopy" programs.

Thanks.

                                    
Re: 15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #7 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 24 Aug 2011, 10:11 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by Pal G.

Measuring an original 12C I get these approximate current measurements:

OFF less than 0.0001 mA
ON/idle = 0.01 mA
ON/running AMORT or tight loop = 0.4 mA

If the calculator is powered by Energizer 357 (silver oxide) cells that are rated at 150mAh at .2ma current draw the OFF state will be dependent only on the battery self-discharge. For silver oxide cells this can be 20 years at room temperature or maybe 50 years at zero Celsius. ON/idle state will be about 1.5 years similar to the 12C+, the big difference is when running long functions or loops.

The 12C can run for around 300 hours before exhausting the cells, while the 12C+ is only good for a few hours at best. Of course the 12C+ runs 150 times faster so the number of execution steps per set of batteries is about the same, surprisingly (or maybe not).

I can't really give an estimate on how long a set of batteries will last in either calculator under normal conditions unless those conditions are defined carefully. But from the above it seems pretty clear that if you do the same functions on a 12C and a 12C+ you can expect similar overall battery life.

-Katie

      
Memory : 65 registers
Message #8 Posted by snaggs on 24 Aug 2011, 7:53 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Lincoln R.

What does this mean? Is it just an emulation or an improvement?

            
Re: Memory : 65 registers
Message #9 Posted by Jeff O. on 24 Aug 2011, 8:57 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by snaggs

On the 15C produced from 1982 through 1989, the memory pool included 67 total registers, RI, R0, R1 ... R65. Registers RI, R0, and R1 could not be allocated to program storage, but the remaining 64 (R2 ... R65) were allocatable between data and program storage. Each numbered register (above R1) could be converted to 7 bytes of program memory. At power up, the memory pool was split such that there were 21 data storage registers (RI ... R19) and 322 bytes of program memory (7 bytes each for R20 ... R65.) Since the highest numbered register was called R65, the specification for 65 registers appears to be consistent with the capabilities of the original 15C.

...

Edited: 24 Aug 2011, 8:58 a.m.

            
Re: Memory : 65 registers
Message #10 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 24 Aug 2011, 9:57 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by snaggs

It's both.

            
Re: Memory : 65 registers
Message #11 Posted by Martin Pinckney on 24 Aug 2011, 10:36 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by snaggs

My understanding is the new calculator emulates the function of the old one exactly. The improvement is the speed increase.

            
Re: Memory : 65 registers
Message #12 Posted by John B. Smitherman on 24 Aug 2011, 12:16 p.m.,
in response to message #8 by snaggs

HP made an HP 15c iPhone app available in 2009 or so. Hopefully, the code had been debugged and can easily be implemented in the 12c+ hardware.

John

                  
Re: Memory : 65 registers
Message #13 Posted by Ethan Conner on 24 Aug 2011, 12:52 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by John B. Smitherman

When i discovered the hp calculator emulator apps for the iphone they didn't have good reviews compared to the "aftermarket" emulators. So i went with all "aftermarket" emulators and have no complaints.

                        
Re: Memory : 65 registers
Message #14 Posted by Norman Dziedzic on 24 Aug 2011, 1:46 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by Ethan Conner

I wanted to see what a close to true 15C was like so I ponied up for the HP iPhone 15C. I never had a real one to compare it but I'm guessing all the functionality is there.

My 1 real beef and the reason I don't use it more is that the keyboard click is so loud it is annoying. There is no way to turn it down other than turning the whole sound down on the phone but this affects the ringer which I need up due to where I work.

The other complaint I have read is that while it says it contains a manual, it only contains the first half of the manual and ends before the programming section.

My Go-To iPhone calculators are the i41CX+ and Free42 except when I need to graph something and then I use PocketCAS lite.

      
Re: 15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #15 Posted by Howard Owen on 24 Aug 2011, 9:01 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Lincoln R.

It comes with the 15C emulator on CD, too. Odd place for this to show up.

            
Re: 15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #16 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 24 Aug 2011, 1:44 p.m.,
in response to message #15 by Howard Owen

*If* it comes. I hope it is already in production.

      
Re: 15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #17 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 24 Aug 2011, 9:31 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Lincoln R.

Perhaps calculators are being moved to the printer division under the new HP organization ?

            
Re: 15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #18 Posted by Howard Owen on 24 Aug 2011, 1:30 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Michael de Estrada

LOL! Now there's a rumor for you!

            
The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #19 Posted by Howard Owen on 28 Aug 2011, 12:31 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Michael de Estrada

That link is still up as of August 28th. There's no doubt that people on the inside have been made aware of it. You'd think it would have been taken down by now if it were a mistake. I'm probably reading too much into this, but it makes me start to wonder if there is truth in the idea that calculators may be moving under printers at HP. That would be tremendously good news, since printers are presumably still very profitable and more likely to be resistent to spin-off.

15C specs listed under printers

                  
Re: The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #20 Posted by Michael de Estrada on 28 Aug 2011, 12:44 p.m.,
in response to message #19 by Howard Owen

It may also explain Tim's more blatant candor about the HP-33s and HP-35s.

                        
Re: The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #21 Posted by Donald Ingram on 28 Aug 2011, 1:00 p.m.,
in response to message #20 by Michael de Estrada

The 12C 30 year anniversary is showing available 9/1 NW258AA#ABA

12C 30 years

                              
Re: The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #22 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 28 Aug 2011, 2:02 p.m.,
in response to message #21 by Donald Ingram

Nice ad. The model should have worn some kind of lab dress and presented the 15C LE ;-).

                  
Re: The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #23 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 30 Aug 2011, 3:17 a.m.,
in response to message #19 by Howard Owen

Quote:
That link is still up as of August 28th.
Not only is it still up, but the display content of the 15C LE changed :-).
                        
Re: The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #24 Posted by Walter B on 30 Aug 2011, 1:38 p.m.,
in response to message #23 by Thomas Radtke

Looks like somebody listens :-)

                        
Re: The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #25 Posted by Lincoln R. on 30 Aug 2011, 10:58 p.m.,
in response to message #23 by Thomas Radtke

Yeah... looks like they fixed the rounding error on pi.

                              
Re: The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #26 Posted by Tim Wessman on 31 Aug 2011, 12:46 a.m.,
in response to message #25 by Lincoln R.

Got to hand it to those responsive people in the printer group.

TW

                                    
Re: The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #27 Posted by Howard Owen on 31 Aug 2011, 5:00 a.m.,
in response to message #26 by Tim Wessman

They must be a big help to you personal systems guys. Perhaps they have body doubles too? :)

                                          
Re: The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #28 Posted by John B. Smitherman on 31 Aug 2011, 7:19 a.m.,
in response to message #27 by Howard Owen

I'd say the liberal arts majors and MBA's running HP have pretty much run HP into the ground. :-(

John

                                                
Re: The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #29 Posted by Glenn Dowdy on 31 Aug 2011, 6:54 p.m.,
in response to message #28 by John B. Smitherman

Quote:
I'd say the liberal arts majors and MBA's running HP have pretty much run HP into the ground. :-(

John

Hey! Some of us MBAs are doing everything we can to keep it afloat. Don't bite the hand that feeds you ;)

                              
Re: The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #30 Posted by Didier Lachieze on 31 Aug 2011, 7:45 a.m.,
in response to message #25 by Lincoln R.

Quote:
Yeah... looks like they fixed the rounding error on pi.
The 15C LE may not be so fast after all, it took a while to calculate the 9th digit of Pi after the decimal with the right accuracy .... :-)
                                    
Re: The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #31 Posted by Tim Wessman on 31 Aug 2011, 10:46 a.m.,
in response to message #30 by Didier Lachieze

It was the carrier pigeon network probably. Took a while to get there.

TW

Edited: 31 Aug 2011, 10:46 a.m.

                                          
Re: The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #32 Posted by Walter B on 31 Aug 2011, 12:51 p.m.,
in response to message #31 by Tim Wessman

ooh, I always thought you rely on floo powder ...

                                                
Re: The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #33 Posted by Glenn Dowdy on 31 Aug 2011, 6:55 p.m.,
in response to message #32 by Walter B

Quote:
ooh, I always thought you rely on floo powder ...

ROHS restrictions took care of that.

                  
Re: The printer division 15C link is still up
Message #34 Posted by Steve Simpkin on 1 Sept 2011, 1:44 p.m.,
in response to message #19 by Howard Owen

The link under printers is no longer there since the HP-15C LE is now officially listed under the scientific calculators section.
Official HP-15C LE link

      
Re: 15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #35 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 24 Aug 2011, 9:37 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Lincoln R.

As long as printers are supposed not to be axed (like PCs and notebooks, as per last week news), it may be a good thing to consider these calculators as "printers". Even the HP 41 or 42 may be considered "IR printer controllers" or "IR print servers".

            
Re: 15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #36 Posted by Howard Owen on 24 Aug 2011, 1:37 p.m.,
in response to message #35 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina)

If they bring back the 42S, add WiFi and a gig of RAM, there's no reason it couldn't be quite a capable print server.

01>LBL "PBUFF"
02>LBL A
03 WINA
04 PRA
05 FC? 1200
09 GTO A
10 "Print job complete"
11 AVIEW
12 .END.
            
Re: 15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #37 Posted by Lincoln R. on 24 Aug 2011, 11:06 p.m.,
in response to message #35 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina)

Honestly I don't care if calculators become part of the rubber chicken division as long as they keep making them ;-)

                  
Re: 15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #38 Posted by Tim Wessman on 25 Aug 2011, 12:03 a.m.,
in response to message #37 by Lincoln R.

That would be an awesome business card.

TW

                        
Re: 15C Reissue is actually a carefully disguised printer?
Message #39 Posted by Ron Ross on 29 Aug 2011, 10:14 a.m.,
in response to message #38 by Tim Wessman

Actually, you could probably pull that off as I suspect you have a pointy haired boss somewhere up the ladder who would believe that RCD meant Research into Calculation Division, but the rest of us would know and your business Card could tell the real story.

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