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Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #1 Posted by bluesun08 on 21 Aug 2011, 4:37 p.m.

Hello,

i‘m a mathematic-teacher on an german high-school (called „Gymnasium“). In the next year the ministries of education will introduce CAS calculators in the high-schools and the examinations could be written with such a calculator. Every school could select his own CAS calculator for his students.

I‘m a HP-User for a couple of years (40gs /50g) and wish the employment of the HP 40gs because of the (subjective) easier userinterface in comparison with the 50g. Although i‘m the responsible person for calculators in our school, i have no chance to introduce HP calculators because of the lack of a built-in dynamic-geometry application and a spreadsheet application. These applications are obligatory. By the way: This is also the reason why Colin Croft turn away from 40gs, see (13.01.10): [url:http://www.hphomeview.com/what's_new.htm]

So i have a few questions for the HP calculator group respectively the HP community:

1. Is there a successor/improvement of the 40gs (respectively 50g) in the pipeline, which contain (built-in) geometry and spreadsheet. If yes, would this released before PSG spin-off?

2. If no, why HP focus in the past new products in the business/office lines (sometimes relaunches) instead of making innovations in the „high end“ CAS/graphical line (geometry, spreadsheet, integration of CAS in all applications, increasing of the display resolution, colored display)? In my opinion the concentration on the „high end“ product line could be the best promotion for future customers. What a pity ...

Best regards

Alexander

      
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #2 Posted by Tim Wessman on 21 Aug 2011, 7:01 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by bluesun08

Colin's school district adopted the Casio classpad which answers your question #0.

TW

            
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #3 Posted by bluesun08 on 22 Aug 2011, 2:22 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Tim Wessman

Hello Tim,

sorry, but i don't understand your answer for my questions.

Do you mean that there is no intention to develop the 40gs respectively other graphing calculators further?

Do you mean that we should also buy the Casio classpad?

Alexander

      
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #4 Posted by Calum Tait on 21 Aug 2011, 8:19 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by bluesun08

Your question is quite interesting to me as I haven't been in a school since I left high school some 24 years ago. I am surprised that such calculator features should be deemed desirable let alone a mandatory requirement - in my day, if calculators had such capability, they would have been banned from the mathematics class lest we "cheat". Teachers used blackboards for practical demonstration and we used to plot graphs on squared paper and used very wide ruled paper spreadsheets for statistical recording. I think we learned mathematics quite well without the need for electronic devices. That's nostalgia for you when you feel wistful for graph paper!

            
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #5 Posted by bluesun08 on 22 Aug 2011, 3:06 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Calum Tait

Hello Calum Tait,

to me it's interesting, that you think that teaching mathematic is nowadays the same as that from 24 years ago.

For students it's very fascinating to find out geometric relations independently. And it is very awesame to change a figure dynamicly. Also it's very interesting to deal with real problems, for which exists no standard derivation or antiderivate. All this things make the classes more attractive.

Sure, to learn mathematic you don't need a calculator or even a graphical calculator. A few people say a "slide rule" will do it. Also sine & cosine tables will do it.

But is this seasonably? We are in 2011 ...

Alexander

                  
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #6 Posted by bill platt on 22 Aug 2011, 3:18 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by bluesun08

The other day, my son was practicing factoring 2nd order polynomials. He hit one that didn't work and he came to me and said, "why won't this factor? What am I doing wrong?" I replied, "nothing. Most real-world problems don't factor."

                        
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #7 Posted by bluesun08 on 22 Aug 2011, 4:09 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by bill platt

Factoring 2nd order polynomials is in germany placed in junior high school. And CAS is in junior high not permitted.

                        
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #8 Posted by Mike Morrow on 22 Aug 2011, 9:07 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by bill platt

So, he hasn't been introduced to the complex number domain yet? :-)

                  
Its a shame that the Casio's and TI are so poorly designed
Message #9 Posted by snaggs on 23 Aug 2011, 5:03 a.m.,
in response to message #5 by bluesun08

Theyre all mouled and curved with no form, like something a dog left on my lawn. Then theres the UI, which is fragmented and often changes.

Best thing would be for Apple to buy the calculator division and polish the gem remaining. They never will of course. Did you know the first iphone calc app was modelled on the Braun ET66?

                        
Re: Its a shame that the Casio's and TI are so poorly designed
Message #10 Posted by Paul Dale on 23 Aug 2011, 5:15 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by snaggs

Square root *and* percent. Very advanced :-)

- Pauli

                              
Re: Its a shame that the Casio's and TI are so poorly designed
Message #11 Posted by Walter B on 23 Aug 2011, 3:52 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by Paul Dale

But outstanding design :-)

Walter

                        
Re: Its a shame that the Casio's and TI are so poorly designed
Message #12 Posted by Calum Tait on 23 Aug 2011, 7:55 p.m.,
in response to message #9 by snaggs

That Braun is a very swish looking calculator. Dieter Rams also designed some terrific looking radios and audio for them.

                  
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #13 Posted by Calum Tait on 23 Aug 2011, 8:31 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by bluesun08

Hello Alexander

I didn't say that times haven't moved on, just reminiscing that we did it all on paper and did okay on it. I do believe though that expecting every student to possess an expensive graphical calculator sounds like the result of lobbying from the calculator manufacturers.

      
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #14 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 22 Aug 2011, 1:38 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by bluesun08

Quote:
[...] why HP focus in the past new products in the business/office lines (sometimes relaunches) instead of making innovations in the „high end“ CAS/graphical line (geometry, spreadsheet, integration of CAS in all applications, increasing of the display resolution, colored display)?
I wouldn't call such tools high end but rather educational. They might be useful at school where it seems not practical to use notebooks, but that's about it. Many years ago, HP gave up on this market by *not* producing the Xpander.
            
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #15 Posted by Walter B on 22 Aug 2011, 2:15 a.m.,
in response to message #14 by Thomas Radtke

Don't tell a teacher his work isn't "high end" ;-)

                  
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #16 Posted by bluesun08 on 22 Aug 2011, 3:14 p.m.,
in response to message #15 by Walter B

Maybe not the work, but the equipment ...

                        
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #17 Posted by Walter B on 23 Aug 2011, 1:49 a.m.,
in response to message #16 by bluesun08

Oh, the equipment is? Looks like things are changing.

                              
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #18 Posted by bluesun08 on 23 Aug 2011, 2:54 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Walter B

I know, it's unbelievably!

      
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #19 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 22 Aug 2011, 3:07 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by bluesun08

Alexander, the rules seem to be written around the offerings of TI (Nspire or Voyage 200/TI 98) and Casio (Classpad or Algebra FX. The new Prizm machines lack the CAS).

From an integration standpoint, the Casios are horrible, just a bunch of unrelated applications. The TIs do much better. As a calculator, I would prefer the Voyage 200 because of the larger screen, the querty keyboard and the well integrated CAS. Cabri Geometry is an add on which comes for free. As an education tool, the Nspire stands out once you get used to it. Its integration is almost perfect but every day usage as a tool is limited by the document concept.

You already know the 40gs and the 50g. The CAS is very well integrated in the 50 and kind of rucksack in the 40gs. The limited screen resolution limits the amount of fun you (and your students) will have with both devices. The feature set of the 50g may be just too much for a math class.

As a teacher I would vote for the NSpire together with its PC counterpart. As a user, the 50G or Voyage 200 would be preferable because they can be easier used instantly as a calculator.

Edited: 22 Aug 2011, 3:08 a.m.

      
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #20 Posted by Arnaud Amiel on 22 Aug 2011, 4:06 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by bluesun08

There are some spreadsheet and geometry applications available for the 50g. I do not know how they compare with the competition as I haven't used any of them.

Arnaud

            
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #21 Posted by George Litauszky on 22 Aug 2011, 12:41 p.m.,
in response to message #20 by Arnaud Amiel


There is an unofficial 50g ROM version with geometry and spreadshet apps on the homepage of Bernard Parisse.

http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~parisse/english.html

"ROM files for HP49G, emu49 or 49G/G+/50G (HTTP mirror). These ROMs provide also a small spreadsheet."

                  
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #22 Posted by bluesun08 on 22 Aug 2011, 3:36 p.m.,
in response to message #21 by George Litauszky

Hey George,

thanks a lot for your information. But is it convenient, when i say in the first mathematic-lesson to my students (about 75 in three courses - every year) which are 50g-novices: "Go to the homepage to Bernard Parisse and make a ROM-Update?"

When the things exists, why HP do not integrate the geometry and the spreadshet in his calculators?

Alexander

                        
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #23 Posted by George Litauszky on 22 Aug 2011, 4:44 p.m.,
in response to message #22 by bluesun08

Hello Alexander,

Quote:
When the things exists, why HP do not integrate the geometry and the spreadshet in his calculators?

This is a good question. Ask the HP and Mr. Parisse. And why the HP do nothing with his scientific calculators recently? The next quote is from Bernard Parisse's foreword from this pdf:

http://www-fourier.ujf-grenoble.fr/~parisse/degraeve/cas49_1.pdf

"Sometimes, I am asked this question: why put symbolic manipulation capabilities into a
calculator, while specialized computer software for this is now either cheap, or available for free?
In my opinion, a calculator is the most effective way to integrate calculation aids with the
teaching of mathematics, because it is both easy to carry out with you and to use in a classroom."

George

                        
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #24 Posted by George Litauszky on 22 Aug 2011, 5:39 p.m.,
in response to message #22 by bluesun08

Quote:
But is it convenient, when i say in the first mathematic-lesson to my students (about 75 in three courses - every year) which are 50g-novices: "Go to the homepage to Bernard Parisse and make a ROM-Update?"

Not, of course. Your easiest choice is the TI Nspire special mathematic teaching tool.
      
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #25 Posted by Alexander Oestert on 22 Aug 2011, 6:38 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by bluesun08

As a father of four children who go to German Gymnasium I would vote not to use any of these CAS calculators, because they are quite expensive to purchase (50G around 130 EUR), which is prohibitive to many. Instead, they should do CAS, spread-sheet and dynamic geometry on school owned PCs and have a simple scientific non-programmable calculator of their own. (I'm happy to say that this is exactly the way it is here in Hamburg!)

Edited: 22 Aug 2011, 6:42 a.m.

            
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #26 Posted by Crawl on 22 Aug 2011, 6:50 a.m.,
in response to message #25 by Alexander Oestert

Yeah, for college, in an STEM field, I would recommend a CAS calculator. It's not any more expensive than most of the many books you would need to buy, anyway, and it can serve you for many years of your career.

But for highschool it's too expensive to ask students to buy. And I think at that level, its (or any graphing calculator, actually) use is doubtful.

            
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #27 Posted by bluesun08 on 22 Aug 2011, 3:59 p.m.,
in response to message #25 by Alexander Oestert

Hello Alexander,

as you see i would prefer the 40gs which cost EUR 69,90 (www.arizone.de).

Furthermore when i teach CAS, spread-sheet and dynamic geometry on PC, i have to go for every graph-drawing and for every non-standard-calculus (real problems for example) in PC-Room. Also every mathematic-examinations have then take place in PC-Room. Hmmm ...

                  
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #28 Posted by Alexander Oestert on 23 Aug 2011, 2:06 a.m.,
in response to message #27 by bluesun08

Quote:
as you see i would prefer the 40gs which cost EUR 69,90 (www.arizone.de).

Which still is an awful lot of money for some people and not really consistent with 'Lehrmittelfreiheit' in Germany.

Quote:
Furthermore when i teach CAS, spread-sheet and dynamic geometry on PC, i have to go for every graph-drawing and for every non-standard-calculus (real problems for example) in PC-Room. Also every mathematic-examinations have then take place in PC-Room. Hmmm ...

Well, do just one unit of CAS in every course, followed by one exam, so you only have to go to the PC room once and can spend the rest of the year in the classroom teaching math! There are plenty of topics for which you don't need an expensive toy.

                        
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #29 Posted by bluesun08 on 23 Aug 2011, 2:41 p.m.,
in response to message #28 by Alexander Oestert

I assume you are a professional. So you certainly know that the participation on a CAS-course is optional. Alternatively you can participate on a non CAS-course. If Hamburg do not offer this freedom than it is a very unindividual school system. I won't be life there.

PS: Handys are more expensive. But everyone set the focus on another toy ...

                              
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #30 Posted by Alexander Oestert on 24 Aug 2011, 7:01 a.m.,
in response to message #29 by bluesun08

Quote:
I assume you are a professional.

No, I'm not a professional teacher.

Quote:
So you certainly know that the participation on a CAS-course is optional.

No, I didn't know that and did not encounter such a course with one of my four children.

In the case of an optional CAS course, I would find it ok to purchase a calculator if everyone agrees. Still, I would imagine that there might be a lot of potential participants who would like to choose that CAS course but won't because they can't afford to buy a 70 EUR calculator.

Quote:
PS: Handys are more expensive. But everyone set the focus on another toy ...

I myself own several mobile phones and calculators and love these toys. Nonetheless I would not find it ok if I was forced by the school to spend a relatively huge amount of money on a calculator that most students won't ever use again after that one semester course.

Couldn't you maybe organize some kind of fund that purchases a whole class set of calculators for the students to borrow during the semester? This way you could even handle the firmware update on all of them and make sure all the 50G's have spread sheet and geometry software on it... ;)

BTW, what state (Bundesland) are you from?

Edited: 24 Aug 2011, 7:06 a.m.

                                    
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #31 Posted by bluesun08 on 24 Aug 2011, 8:33 a.m.,
in response to message #30 by Alexander Oestert

Hallo Alexander,

because of my bad english, i have decided to answer in german. Please, Forum, apologize profusely.

Ich finde Deinen Vorschlag nicht schlecht, dass die Schule einen Fundus an Geräten kauft und anschließend an die Schüler verleiht.

Machen wir ein Rechenbeispiel für den HP 50g. Dieser kostet (Dynatech, Arizone, Amazon) im Schnitt 120 Euro. Gehen wir von 5 Jahren Nutzungszeit aus, wären das 24 Euro "Leihgebühr" pro Jahr. Bei entsprechend längerer Nutzungszeit würde sich der Betrag reduzieren.

Machen wir noch ein Rechenbeispiel für den HP 40gs. Dieser kostet ca. 70 Euro. Bei 5 Jahren Nutzungszeit wären das 14 Euro (oder weniger, bei längerer Nutzungszeit).

In der Tat haben wir an unserer Schule auch schon über dieses Modell diskutiert. Vermutlich würden die Beträge auch für Dich tragbar erscheinen.

Ebenso finde ich Deinen Vorschlag mit dem (kollektiven) ROM-Update für den 50g (mit Geometrie und Tabellenkalkulation) sehr interessant. Leider habe ich mich noch nicht an ein solches Update herangewagt. Ich habe diesen Ansatz noch nicht weiter verfolgt, weil ich nicht weiß, wie die Applikationen von Bernard Parisse ausgereift bzw. für den produktiven (schulischen) Einsatz geeignet sind. Hat Hr. Parisse die Applikationen bereits fertiggestellt oder handelt es sich nur um Entwürfe?

Am liebsten wäre es mir, wenn die Applikationen (Geometrie und Tabellenkalkulation) auch auf den 40gs portiert werden könnten, da hier das gesamte Bedienkonzept (auch für Schüler) einfacher ist und der 40gs einfach weniger kostet.

Lassen wir unseren Gedanken freien Lauf und treiben die Sache etwas weiter: Das einzige, was der TI Nspire CX den HP Rechnern wirklich voraus hat sind: 1. das farbige / höheraufgelöste Display 2. das dokumentbasierte Bedienprinzip, d.h Abspeicherung der Rechnungen und Zugriff auf das CAS von allen Dokumenten aus. 3. Dynamische Geometrie und Tabellenkalkulation (was halt einfach von unserem Kultusministerium gefordert wird).

Meines Erachtens wäre HP mit dem 40gs nicht weit davon weg, dem TI Konkurrenz zu machen:

Zu 1: Ein farbiges bzw. höheraufgelöstes Display ist halt heutzutage Standard. Natürlich würde auch das schwarz-weiß-Display des 40gs reichen. Aber wer würde denn heute noch einen schwarz-weiß-Fernseher kaufen, obwohl man damit alle Fernsehsendungen sehen kann? Die meisten Menschen kaufen sich halt bei einer Neuanschaffung einfach einen Farbfernseher (bzw. LCD-Display). Wenn man als Schüler oder als Verantworlicher an der Schule entscheiden muss, dann wird man zu dem attraktiveren und zeitgemäßeren Taschenrechner mit Farbdisplay greifen. Kann es denn für ein Technologie-Unternehmen wie HP so schwer sein, seine Taschenrechner mit Farbdisplay auszustatten? Wenn ja, dann hat es wirklich nichts mehr auf dem Markt zu suchen. Und hier kann man nicht immer auf Charly Fiorina verweisen. Es ist die Calculator-Group von HP gefragt, hier die Initiative zu ergreifen.

Zu 2: Das dokumentbasierte Bedienprinzip ist mit den "Aplets" im 40gs schon zu 90 % sehr schön realisiert. Eigentlich würde das bereits genügen. Mit minimalen Aufwand könnte man es perfekt machen

Zu 3: Wenn doch schon Geometrie und Tabellenkalkulation von B. Parisse für den 50g vorhanden sind, warum macht man nicht noch den kleinen Schritt und portiert dies auf den 40gs. Warum schaltet man Jean-Yves Avenard nicht noch einmal ein?

Aus meiner Sicht liegt alles schon vor unseren Füßen. Man müsste es nur noch aufheben und zusammenfügen. Implementiert man noch RPN in den 40gs, dann hat man einen Top-Rechner. Ich wäre bereit, hier mitzuhelfen, aber alle müssten einen kleinen Schritt machen. Noch einmal: Man kann nicht alles auf Fiorina und HP schieben. Wir, die Anwender, das Forum und die Calculator-Group müssen mithelfen.

Lass mich bitte noch einmal auf den Grund meines Postings zurückkommen: Ab 2014 KANN hier in Bayern das Mathe-Abi auch mit CAS geschrieben werden, d.h. diese Schüler bekommen gesonderte Aufgaben. Wer will, kann mit CAS schreiben, wer nicht will, schreibt ohne CAS (mit normalen Taschenrechner) und erhält "normale" Aufgaben.

ALLE Schulen in Bayern stehen nun vor der Entscheidung, welchen CAS-Rechner sie einführen wollen. Als überzeugter HP-Anwender möchte ich natürlich, dass HP Rechner eingeführt werden. Das scheitert aber an der Vorgabe des Kultusministeriums, dass die Rechner Geometrie und Tabellenkalkulation haben müssen. Wir müssen das halt so akzeptieren, egal ob CAS im Allgemeinen bzw. Geometrie und Tabellenkalkulation im Besonderen Sinn macht. Es ist halt so und wir müssen interessierte Schüler auf das CAS Abi vorbereiten.

Bestimmte Bundesländer haben bereits CAS und die anderen Bundesländer werden nachfolgen. Diese Entwicklung hin zu CAS ist nicht nur in Deutschland sondern auch in ganz Europa und vermutlich auf der ganzen Welt zu beobachten. Was mich ärgert ist, dass HP (und wir) sich diesen Markt entgehen lässt. Was gäbe es denn für eine bessere Werbung für HP, wenn jeder Schüler einen Taschenrechner mit HP-Logo hätte. Schließlich sind die Schüler die Entscheider von morgen und wenn später mal eine Entscheidung Privat oder im Betrieb für eine EDV-Infrastruktur (PC, Drucker, Server) ansteht, wird man sich an das Logo und an HP erinnern. Microsoft hat es doch vorgemacht!

Der Grund meines Anfangspostings war, dass meine Gedanken über das HP Forum an das HHC 2011 und an Tim Wessman transportiert werden, um sie zu diskutieren. Ich habe absichtlich etwas zynische Formulierungen gewählt, um das Forum aufzuwecken und nicht dauernd über die Vergangenheit zu diskutieren, dass der 42s und der 28s die besten Rechner waren oder dass die Handbücher früher besser waren. Was bringt denn der 34s oder der 15c? Wir brauchen doch konkurrenzfähige Produkte. Natürlich würde der 40gs für das Gymnasium technisch auch reichen, aber er lockt halt einfach niemand mehr von dem Ofen vor. Und HP wäre nicht mehr weit von einem neuen Produkt weg, das sich aus meiner (obigen) Sicht relativ einfach realisieren lassen müsste.

Noch einmal: Wir dürfen nicht die Schuld auf Fiorina oder HP schieben. Wir, das Forum, die HHC sind indirekt als Lobbyisten und die Calculator group ist direkt gefragt, Einfluss zu nehmen.

Ich bin bereit mitzuhelfen!

Bitte entschuldige meine langen Ausführungen. Es sind halt meine Gedanken ... und meine Leidenschaft.

Viele Grüße

Alexander

Edited: 24 Aug 2011, 8:38 a.m.

                                          
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #32 Posted by Alexander Oestert on 24 Aug 2011, 9:27 a.m.,
in response to message #31 by bluesun08

Quote:
Machen wir ein Rechenbeispiel für den HP 50g. Dieser kostet (Dynatech, Arizone, Amazon) im Schnitt 120 Euro. Gehen wir von 5 Jahren Nutzungszeit aus, wären das 24 Euro "Leihgebühr" pro Jahr.

Frankly, I thought it best to have it come out of the school budget. Actually, if the state is requiring (at least in the near Bavarian future) students to have a CAS calculator, the school should provide it. Remember: 'Lehrmittelfreiheit'!Another alternative could be to seek funding from local businesses, engineering companies or such in exchange for their company logo sticker on the calc.

Quote:
Ich bin bereit mitzuhelfen!

Well, you will have to polish up your English. It won't help you any further to try to convince me or the German audience of this forum. HP, after all, is a US company and this forum is mainly non-German. ;)

                                                
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #33 Posted by bluesun08 on 24 Aug 2011, 10:43 a.m.,
in response to message #32 by Alexander Oestert

Würde das englischsprachige Forum meine ausgeführten Ansichten vermutlich teilen und meine Pläne zum Voranbringen des 40gs bzw 50g unterstützen? Wie ist Deine Einschätzung?

                                                      
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #34 Posted by Alexander Oestert on 24 Aug 2011, 11:05 a.m.,
in response to message #33 by bluesun08

Quote:
Würde das englischsprachige Forum meine ausgeführten Ansichten vermutlich teilen und meine Pläne zum Voranbringen des 40gs bzw 50g unterstützen? Wie ist Deine Einschätzung?

Would the English speaking audience of the forum help you with your quest to boost HP calculator sales?

I believe this is not on many people's agenda right now. Take me for example: Apart from having some Sharps, Casios and TIs, I like HP calculators and RPN a lot. But I don't think it is important which brand of calculators my kids use at school, nor do I think that the distinction Algebraic vs. RPN matters when it comes to CAS.

If you deem it important to teach CAS on HP calculators at your school, find out if sponsorship from local businesses is legal (!) in Bavarian schools and then raise the needed sum to provide your favorite calculator to your future classes.

Edited: 24 Aug 2011, 11:48 a.m.

                                                            
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #35 Posted by bluesun08 on 24 Aug 2011, 5:50 p.m.,
in response to message #34 by Alexander Oestert

O.k. two last questions: Why this is not on many people's agenda right now and what is on many people's agenda right now from your point of view?

Alexander

                                                                  
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #36 Posted by Walter B on 24 Aug 2011, 6:10 p.m.,
in response to message #35 by bluesun08

Quote:
Why this is not on many people's agenda right now and what is on many people's agenda right now from your point of view?
Answering the first question: I guess the vast majority of forumers sets other priorities. Aren't too many teachers here, and even less with that hobby. So if you want to get it done, do it. Compare the WP 34S project. HTH
                                                                  
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #37 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 25 Aug 2011, 3:23 a.m.,
in response to message #35 by bluesun08

Quote:
Why this is not on many people's agenda right now and what is on many people's agenda right now from your point of view?
How important can this issue be if generations of excellent engineers were taught with chalkboard and sliderule?

Especially in Germany, we have a different problem at schools, and that's students not even mastering the german language.

                                                                        
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #38 Posted by bluesun08 on 25 Aug 2011, 3:45 a.m.,
in response to message #37 by Thomas Radtke

... and of course the english ;-)

                                                                  
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #39 Posted by Alexander Oestert on 25 Aug 2011, 5:42 a.m.,
in response to message #35 by bluesun08

Quote:
O.k. two last questions: Why this is not on many people's agenda right now and what is on many people's agenda right now from your point of view?

Alexander


As I wrote above, being a father of four children in German schools I might be the one forumer here closest to your interests as a math teacher and HP fan. And if I don't care what calculator my kids use in math lessons, much less what brand they use, probably no one else will care.

What I do care about concerning math lessons is that they are taught important math concepts and thinking mathematically. This is very much different from what I myself was interested when I was a student. Back then I didn't like stochastics, statistics, probability and some such. Today, I'm convinced that a deeper knowledge in those disciplines is key in understanding politics, society, risk taking and life in general to everyone and not only to some math geeks. If people taking AIDS tests, not using their bicycle helmet or being afraid of flying in an airplane would only know more about evaluating results, risks and probabilities! :-( They could do with much less knowledge about CAS, trigonometry or integrals - as much as I like those topics.

Edited: 25 Aug 2011, 5:45 a.m.

                                                                        
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #40 Posted by bluesun08 on 25 Aug 2011, 4:21 p.m.,
in response to message #39 by Alexander Oestert

You convinced me: It make no odds which brand the calculator have. So i decide me to acquire the new TI Nspire CX for our students, because the TI fulfil a priori all the requirements of our ministry of education (see my initial posting). Furthermore the TI Nspire series are already in use by a couple of universities (also universities of applied sciences). I think i should rather spend my time and energy in good math lessons.

Alexander

      
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #41 Posted by bluesun08 on 22 Aug 2011, 6:29 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by bluesun08

Yesterday i had a dream:

Some people need a PC-Equipment and Apotheker said: „Why HP, please go to Dell, Acer or Lenovo!“ Some other people need a TouchPad and Apotheker said: „Why HP, please go to Apple, Asus or Archos!“ Some other people need a Smartphone and Apotheker said: „Why HP, please go to „Samsung, HTC or Blackberry!“ Some other (highschool)people need a further developed CAS/graphic calculator and the HP-FORUM said: „Why CAS/graphic on highschool? O.k. only if absolutely necessary, but why HP, please go to TI or Casio!“

After i awake from the dream i read the anwers to my posting in the forum and think: „What a strange world ....“ But now i‘m understand: HP and the Forum don‘t care about the 3000 highschools and the 750000 highschool students (and potential customers - yearly) alone in germany. The big deal (about 17 % yield) and preservers for HP are the business/scientific calculators. No harm meant.

Alexander

Edited: 22 Aug 2011, 6:35 p.m.

            
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #42 Posted by Martin Pinckney on 22 Aug 2011, 10:46 p.m.,
in response to message #41 by bluesun08

Quote:
But now i‘m understand: HP and the Forum don‘t care about the 3000 high schools and the 750000 high school students (and potential customers - yearly) alone in Germany. The big deal (about 17 % yield) and preservers for HP are the business/scientific calculators. No harm meant.

Alexander


What does the Forum have to do with it? Read the last 10 years of posts where Forum members have been complaining about HP's decision-making.
                  
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #43 Posted by bluesun08 on 23 Aug 2011, 2:52 p.m.,
in response to message #42 by Martin Pinckney

I have not the time to read the last 10 years of post. I'm only interested in the question if the calculator group plan to rebuild the 40gs/50g-line in the next time!

Alexander

PS: The outsource of PSG is till now not sure and could take a long time.

                        
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #44 Posted by Walter B on 23 Aug 2011, 4:23 p.m.,
in response to message #43 by bluesun08

Watch it! You asked for advise here, and both your English and your attitude emphasize you're a teacher - a professional as you call it - from this country, which has a great tradition in science and mathematics. But after getting quite some background information you obviously didn't have before, you took a big breath and wrote:

Quote:
But now i‘m understand: HP and the Forum don‘t care about the 3000 highschools and the 750000 highschool students ...
accusing the forum - i.e. those who answered your questions - out of the blue. And as a typical teacher, you seem to be resistant to education - you refused to take Martin's tip instead of being grateful for the opportunity to lift your knowledge to the first excited state. Looks like an hopeless case, I'm afraid :-/
                              
Re: Questions to the HP calculator group/community about HP 40gs/50g successor
Message #45 Posted by bluesun08 on 24 Aug 2011, 5:22 a.m.,
in response to message #44 by Walter B

I think you are right. Sorry.


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