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[OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #1 Posted by Tim Wessman on 8 Oct 2010, 10:17 a.m.

Announcement

TW

      
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #2 Posted by hpnut on 8 Oct 2010, 10:40 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Tim Wessman

Not RPN :-(

            
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #3 Posted by M. Joury on 8 Oct 2010, 10:57 a.m.,
in response to message #2 by hpnut

If it supports the same development environment as the fx-9860gII that can be fixed. I looked at the Casio site and there is not a whole lot of information available on it. Just that it has a (very) high resolution color screen, what the memory limits are, and the battery life. Nothing more that I can find.

                  
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #4 Posted by Pal G. on 8 Oct 2010, 11:04 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by M. Joury

Here's some more info. I read it will be available January 2011.

http://www.casioeducation.com/prizm/

http://www.casio.com/news/content/51D7AC67-A2F7-479C-9250-926471B69BF9

                        
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #5 Posted by M. Joury on 8 Oct 2010, 11:11 a.m.,
in response to message #4 by Pal G.

Thanks!

      
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #6 Posted by Nigel J Dowrick on 8 Oct 2010, 11:00 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Tim Wessman

Judging from the icons in the display the built-in software looks similar to the current 9850/60 series. The display resolution is good, but the power consumption is 0.6W - will students put up with a calculator likely to go flat in an exam?

Still, all credit to Casio for continuing to produce new models, even if this one is aimed squarely at the educational market. It looks nicer than the NSpire machines ...

Nigel

            
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #7 Posted by M. Joury on 8 Oct 2010, 11:10 a.m.,
in response to message #6 by Nigel J Dowrick

I am not sure about Casio's battery test scenarios but the battery life on alkalines appears to be 3 times that of the 50g which, according to spec, has a battery life of around 50 hours typical use.

            
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #8 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 8 Oct 2010, 11:30 a.m.,
in response to message #6 by Nigel J Dowrick

Quote:
but the power consumption is 0.6W

This appears to be the peak power consumption. They have a very detailed spec on battery life under different scenarios in the other link posted. Like most color, back-lite, LCD screens devices the brightness level is the main determinate of battery life. However at the lowest setting (most of the time) they claim 250 hours from 4xAAA alkaline cells. That works out to roughly .025W power consumption.

For comparison, the fx-9860g slim says .3W power consumption on the back label but I measure a peak power of only .2W (with back light on and running a program loop). The back light itself draws about .03 watts. I think this new machine will be just fine power-wise. I use my fx-9860g slim quite a lot often with the back light on and don't find myself changing batteries often at all.

-Katie

      
Casio Prizm fxCG10 looks great @ US$130
Message #9 Posted by Sujith Abraham on 8 Oct 2010, 11:33 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Tim Wessman

This Wired story tells me that it is available now (Casio Prizm Calculator Pulls Equations from Photographs)

It is available for purchase from the Casio Products site : Casio Prizm fxCG10

See this video also : Casio Prizm fxCG10 Video teaser . I think it's a TI Nspire at the end getting morphed to a Prizm.

The price is right, I guess they mean business this time.

Great work Casio.

      
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #10 Posted by Bruce Bergman on 8 Oct 2010, 11:37 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Tim Wessman

Wow. That's gonna perk someone up at TI. Reminds me of the sage XKCD cartoon where they were comparing the features of the TI calc, now 20 years old.

At least it'll run RPN in an app.

Interesting...

      
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #11 Posted by db (martinez, ca.) on 8 Oct 2010, 11:36 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Tim Wessman

The announcement says

Quote:
PRIZM™ creates a whole new way to learn math by enabling students to experiment by creating their own graphs over pictures of real-life scenes, and then understand the functions from the graphs that they created on their own.
So one can store equations like this one?

cool.
            
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #12 Posted by Martin Pinckney on 8 Oct 2010, 11:43 a.m.,
in response to message #11 by db (martinez, ca.)

Quote:
So one can store equations like this one?

cool.
Link broken for me.
                  
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #13 Posted by db (martinez, ca.) on 8 Oct 2010, 8:07 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by Martin Pinckney

Martin; It worked for me when i posted, but not right now either. It's the formula for a symmetric parabolic curve. The algorithm for a non-symmetrical vertical curve would be a little more complicated but i wouldn't mind. Like most surveyors; i'm just so grateful to have any curve.... The link is:
http://img2.moonbuggy.org/imgstore/civil-engineering-reference-wallpaper.jpg

                        
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #14 Posted by Martin Pinckney on 9 Oct 2010, 6:26 a.m.,
in response to message #13 by db (martinez, ca.)

Not to be argumentative, but the curves appear more circular than parabolic to me. I am a hands-on kind of engineer, but for some types of problems, I am restricted to visual observations only. So yes, the new Casio might prove valuable in this case.

Edited: 9 Oct 2010, 6:43 a.m.

            
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #15 Posted by Walter B on 8 Oct 2010, 11:51 a.m.,
in response to message #11 by db (martinez, ca.)

Looks like 4MPa pressure or a real lot of silicone. Must be the latter since I don't see a tube d;-)

Edited for typo >:-/

Edited: 9 Oct 2010, 6:31 a.m.

      
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #16 Posted by Martin Pinckney on 8 Oct 2010, 11:47 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Tim Wessman

This has some features talked about (and dismissed as not feasible, I might add) on this forum, such as color backlit LCD. Maybe Casio reads the messages here and takes them more seriously than HP's corporate structure?

So Tim, when can we expect something like this from HP, like a 60g?

            
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #17 Posted by Walter B on 8 Oct 2010, 11:54 a.m.,
in response to message #16 by Martin Pinckney

HP has a 50g being not so bad for this market after all.

Ceterum censeo: HP, launch a 43S!

                  
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #18 Posted by gene wright on 8 Oct 2010, 12:06 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Walter B

Ceterum censeo: Walter, compile a 34s!

:-)

                        
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #19 Posted by Walter B on 8 Oct 2010, 12:18 p.m.,
in response to message #18 by gene wright

LOL

Gene, I'm sorry I can't do this since having neither Linux nor a Mac. And though having done quite a lot of SW earlier, I did my last real SW project some 20 years ago using Pascal at that time. That's the reason why I took the documentation job in the 34S project d;-)

So this compilation is gladly left for other people. How are your results so far?

            
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #20 Posted by Tim Wessman on 8 Oct 2010, 12:05 p.m.,
in response to message #16 by Martin Pinckney

Not dismissed at not feasible (although not on any saturn code based machine - it took 6 months to make the 49g+ use the top of the screen for most things and that was the most *simple* task), but rather there is a big tradeoff with both power and cost.

TW

      
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #21 Posted by Pablo P (Spain) on 8 Oct 2010, 12:39 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Tim Wessman

It reminds me a big Blackberry. First TI-Nspire touchpad and now the PRIZM fx-CG10. HP, it is your turn...

      
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #22 Posted by Hal Bitton in Boise on 8 Oct 2010, 1:27 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Tim Wessman

Great display for sure...very eye catching, very flashy. But I notice the numerical range is only 9.9x10^99 to 9.9X10^-99. Do you suppose it has infinite numerical precision for integers, etc. Is there a decent CAS behind all that flash?

            
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #23 Posted by Tim Wessman on 8 Oct 2010, 1:31 p.m.,
in response to message #22 by Hal Bitton in Boise

Nope.

From what I can tell, it is essentially the same SW in a 9860 with a bit more bling.

TW

                  
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #24 Posted by Ron Ross on 8 Oct 2010, 2:32 p.m.,
in response to message #23 by Tim Wessman

Along with the huge variable count of 28 variables ie single letter variables with theta and gamma or some such combination.

Truthfully, I feel that Hp SHOULD release an Hp 43s. A high end pocket calculator with I/O. Use the ROM of the Hp 50G, but gut the graphics (or include a VGA or DVI port as discussed later). Give it an okay LCD with 2-4 levels (with softkeys, just like the Hp 42s or 48G). Such a system would be able to use the huge library of existing 48G type programs if rewritten for the smaller screen.

Such a pocket calculator would be a great pocket companion for the technical field engineer. I/O could and should include an SD slot, usb slot and a small VGA or DVI type port so that graphics can be used by those that feel a need to have this capability. I feel it is a nice to have feature, but I have never used the graphics on my own Hp48g (but that could be because the Hp48G is notoriously slow to graph). Now, as a professional, I would never bother to use the graphics of a lowly calculator as I could use my PC to generate a better graph that could be printed out for reference too.

And Hp can't afford to go cheap on the keyboard. It has to be at the same standard or quality of the Voyagers or Pioneers.

Edited: 8 Oct 2010, 2:51 p.m.

                        
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #25 Posted by htom trites jr on 8 Oct 2010, 6:37 p.m.,
in response to message #24 by Ron Ross

Several (I'd like four, please) MicroSDHD slots. The calculator OS can be in a MicroSDHD in slot 0.

      
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #26 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 8 Oct 2010, 6:30 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Tim Wessman

It looks a bit too large for a shirt pocket... even Mr. Hewlett's one.

            
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #27 Posted by Chuck on 8 Oct 2010, 8:09 p.m.,
in response to message #26 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina)

Ah, big for now, yes. But a clamshell version like my FX-9860g Slim would be most desirable.

And seriously, even though I've used HP's since 1980 and probably have over 35 HP's I've completely come to the conclusion that HP will NEVER come out with a fantastically (not just good or passable) quality calculator. The 35s was about 20% there, the 30b is about 25% there, as are the 49's, and 50's. They are now all button adorned dust collectors up in my garage.

Man will never walk Mars; dinosaurs will never walk Earth again; and HP will never create a quality scientific calculator. Things go extinct every now and then. Sad, but true. HP, I'm afraid, is losing the race, unfortunately.

      
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #28 Posted by Csaba Tizedes (Hungary) on 10 Oct 2010, 8:28 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Tim Wessman

Variable names: A...Z -> !FAIL! Dashed triangles, double arrows and other hieroglyphs in program lists -> !FAIL! Many info in handbook, no problems from real life -> !FAIL! No camera -> !FAIL! No strings (just 20 I-dunno-whats-this-really) -> !FAIL! Very impressive soap box without brain -> !FAIL! When I will pass all my exams this unit will be useless in professional life -> !FAIL! No SDK -> !FAIL! No C, C#, Python, Java -> !FAIL! No MP3 -> !FAIL! No DivX support -> !FAIL! No GSM/3G support -> !FAIL! No WiFi -> !FAIL! No GPS -> !FAIL!

I hope this was a test product from CASIO.

If the next will be...

same as clever as HP15C and 42S and 48SX AND will be friendly for students like as TI89 AND small as SonyEricsson Xperia X10 Mini AND looks like CASIO fx-CG10 (haha)

...thats will be the perfect calc.

Some missing things:

- able to fit parabolic equation with zero (or any given) slope in one given point - able to fit a function on a subset of measured data (simple check the given interval on the graph (xmin...xmax)) - able to make photographs and use it to measuring - and so on...

            
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #29 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 10 Oct 2010, 10:08 a.m.,
in response to message #28 by Csaba Tizedes (Hungary)

While I agree with you about the variable limitations and weird programming language, I think for what it is (based on the 9860g) it's quite a nice calculator. No MP3 player, GPS or ice crusher but it's not claiming to be a do everything device. I do think that a simple camera would be perfect in this given what it's main selling point is. On the other hand... it does have an SDK (again, based on the 9860g), a pretty nice one that lets you create your own applications that can share variables with the built-in ones.

                  
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #30 Posted by Egan Ford on 10 Oct 2010, 1:30 p.m.,
in response to message #29 by Katie Wasserman

Quote:
I do think that a simple camera would be perfect in this given what it's main selling point is.
It would make stealing tests easier. :-)

I'm assuming the Casio displays your pic, and you place an 'X', then the next 'X', and so and and then you say, "find a curve". Interesting, perhaps someday I can have an augmented reality app for portable devices that would show the mathematics of the real world in real-time.

      
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #31 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 11 Oct 2010, 4:15 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Tim Wessman

The friends over at MySilicium.org have found the manual:

http://edu.casio.com/products/cg_series/data/fxcg10_20_E.pdf

Here is the thread: http://www.silicium.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=27385&start=0

            
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #32 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 11 Oct 2010, 5:59 a.m.,
in response to message #31 by Marcus von Cube, Germany

Marcus,

Thanks for that link. After a quick read of the manual I find this new machine somewhat disappointing. Casio just: 

- added commands to deal with the color display
- a geometry application
- an image/plotting application (the advertised feature)
- metric conversions are now a built in application
- more statistics functions (and in their own application)
- better support to editing programs on a PC and transferring them to the calculator

Otherwise it's an fx-9860g II. While that's pretty much what I expected I was hopping for more programming improvements.

-Katie

Edited: 11 Oct 2010, 6:20 a.m.

                  
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #33 Posted by Donald Williams on 11 Oct 2010, 10:45 a.m.,
in response to message #32 by Katie Wasserman

Quote:
I was hopping for more programming improvements.

Amen!

That is the weak point in their current offerings.

HP RPL is too much.

Casio Basic is too little.

Perfect calculator - Where oh Where art thou?

                        
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #34 Posted by Bruce Bergman on 11 Oct 2010, 11:21 a.m.,
in response to message #33 by Donald Williams

How about a port of HP's RPL to the Casio? ;-)

Thanks,

Bruce

                        
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #35 Posted by bill platt on 11 Oct 2010, 6:52 p.m.,
in response to message #33 by Donald Williams

Emulate a 41 on the 50g. That gives you the old simple but extensible FOCAL on a modern HW platform.

                              
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #36 Posted by hpnut on 12 Oct 2010, 4:48 a.m.,
in response to message #35 by bill platt

The online manual can be found here.

http://edu.casio.com/products/cg_series/data/fxcg10_20_E.pdf

Not bad manual, 601 pages.

                              
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #37 Posted by Massimo Gnerucci (Italy) on 12 Oct 2010, 2:03 p.m.,
in response to message #35 by bill platt

Exactly!
Use Hrast's emulator... or wait for Monte's 41L

Massimo

                  
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #38 Posted by Chuck on 12 Oct 2010, 8:01 p.m.,
in response to message #32 by Katie Wasserman

Katie, have you figured out why the fx-CG10 is the North American version, and the CG20 is everywhere else? Also why the CG10 lasts 140 hours on battery versus 85 with the CG20? Doesn't seem like the specs lend to this disparity.

CHUCK

                        
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #39 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 13 Oct 2010, 12:27 a.m.,
in response to message #38 by Chuck

I think that the battery life spec is simply confusing to read and the both models have either 140 hours or 85 hours of battery life depending on usage patterns.

Casio notes that the CG10 is for the North American market while the CG20 is for the rest of the world. Significantly they also note that the eActivity screen shots and others saved on a CG20 can not be read on a CG20 but the reverse is not true and that Casio supplied images file can be read by either version. Other than that the manual mentions no differences between the two models. The distinction seems like it might be some sort of copyright infringement avoidance issue -- it makes no logical sense to me.

                              
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #40 Posted by Chuck on 13 Oct 2010, 1:31 a.m.,
in response to message #39 by Katie Wasserman

The battery discrepancy sounds plausible: same for both, but dependent on the type of battery being used. I'm surprised it's not the other way around since there has already been an awesome Casio CG10 sold here about 30 years ago. :) Course maybe it wasn't available in the states.

Casio CG10

CHUCK

      
Re: [OT] New Casio Grapher
Message #41 Posted by Jimi on 13 Oct 2010, 4:22 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Tim Wessman

Very nice looking. I'd be interested in playing with one for sure.

My big thing on the current crop of calculators is readability, and ALL of the current batch of graphers is pretty poor. Shitty contrast, no backlight. My 48 is better than most, since at least the font size is larger. The TI89 is horrible for me unless in bright light conditions. The problem with the lighting, is that almost every class I'm in now is using projectors for lecture, and all dim the lights to some level. While writing isn't a problem, doing anything on the calculator is.

About battery life. If you're going in for your PE exam, SAT, whatever, you'd be smart to throw a new set of batteries in there. Just saying. The extra few dollars is trivial to the consequences.

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