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Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #1 Posted by gene wright on 13 Sept 2010, 8:02 p.m.

Monte's upcoming 41CL got me to thinking...what other ROM ideas are possible?

here are some suggestions for those of you who know how to do this!

1) ROM(s) containing all the FOCAL programs from the HP solution books. I know those are available in .raw files at TOS. Perhaps these could be converted into some ROM images? This would be great and maybe not THAT difficult since they would not have to be keyed in?

2) A fixed PPC ROM module? The module had a bug where a global GTO BE instruction was the loop GTO in the Block Exchange routine. Be nice if that could be fixed so the PPC rom in the 41CL could be perfect. :-)

3) Are there any already developed MCODE routines for a variable TONE and / or Variable Length pause? These were a couple of the potential functions that almost made the PPC rom but were pulled out at the last minute. Any actual MCDOE routines for these exist out there?

4) How about a rom image of "Dungeon of Doom" from Datafile a few years ago? One of the better dungeon games and a royal pain to key in. Should run nice and fast in 41CL turbo mode. The barcode is in a Datafile issue.

5) A rom image would be a nice place to have Roger Hill's ultimate 41 calendar printer program since space is not an issue. :-)

6) Some of the routines from John Dearing's 41 Tips and Routines book might be nice to have in a rom.

Again, these are just ideas. :-) Of them, #1 above is the one that I suspect might be most useful.

P.S. One reason I'm asking about this now is that it would be nice if some of these things are done before the 41CL starts being sold..which I hope is soon.

Edited: 13 Sept 2010, 8:08 p.m.

      
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #2 Posted by Namir on 13 Sept 2010, 8:15 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by gene wright

What 41CL???? Did I miss something???

Namir

            
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #3 Posted by Joerg Woerner on 13 Sept 2010, 8:42 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Namir

Namir,

Aren't you overseas? You miss a lot ;-))

Cheers, Joerg

                  
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #4 Posted by Namir on 13 Sept 2010, 8:58 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Joerg Woerner

Leaving the 23rd. I plan to call Gene or maybe even you from France during HHC2010. I have a Magic Jack phone, so the call is (almost) free!!!! I will call to see that I am with the HHC2010 in spirit.

                        
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #5 Posted by Joerg Woerner on 13 Sept 2010, 9:03 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Namir

Sounds great - have a safe trip!

Regards, Joerg

      
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #6 Posted by Paul Dale on 14 Sept 2010, 3:53 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by gene wright

How about all the programs here: http://hp41programs.yolasite.com/

User library routines are plentiful too.

- Pauli

            
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #7 Posted by 聲gel Martin on 14 Sept 2010, 5:26 a.m.,
in response to message #6 by Paul Dale

There are already three modules made using the programs from Jean-Marc's Baillard excellent site:

- JMB_Math (8k)
- ASTRO_2010 (12k)
- JBM_Matrix (8k)

Available at TOS.

Cheers, 簍

      
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #8 Posted by 聲gel Martin on 14 Sept 2010, 5:23 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by gene wright

Gene, I've been putting together a few 41 ROMs for the last couple of years, some of them related to your bullet points below.- My comments:

1. FOCAL programs from solution books.- Not sure that the ROM format is the best way for them. They'll require multiple FATs and perhaps interdependencies. Besides, many programs date from the early days of the 41C system and don't make use of advanced programming techniques, nor extended functions either. BTW, J-F Garnier put together the "Advanced Applications" ROM, with the Grapevine programs using the Advantage Module - that's a very good one.

2. As much as I like the PPC Module I think that by the most part it's superceded by many other advanced modules using MCODE, so I wouldn't put efforts in changing it.

3. The function TONEXY allows for variable frequency and time inputs for TONE. IT's available on several modules, like ALPHA, 41Z (called TONEZ there) and Games Library.

4. I'd gladly add "Dungeon of Doom" to the games libray Modules if somebody provides me with a RAW file (I don't have the datafile issue). Ditto about the Calendar programs.

5. Tips&Routines don't lend themselves well to the ROM format: too many of them (FAT entries are limited) and too short code for an effective usage of the ROM space.

Cheers, 簍

            
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #9 Posted by gene wright on 14 Sept 2010, 8:11 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by 聲gel Martin

Hi Angel!

1) Regarding solutions books, perhaps you are right. However, on the 41CL there is **plenty** of room for rom images, and the solution books are a big source of solutions and the code is already in the proper format.

2) Agree with the PPC module, however the code fix is very easy and the code is all FOCAL. Just seems a shame to have the original rom version with this one tiny little bug in it that is so easily fixed be placed into the 41CL. ;-)

3) Thanks for the direction here.

4) Does **anyone** have Dungeon of Doom in raw format?

5) True true. Perhaps I can at least go through the book and see if there are any worth putting in due to length and features.

As I understand it, even with **all** the roms from TOS loaded, the memory space is about 1/2 empty on the 41CL.

So, there is a LOT of extra room for ROMs to be put in. The idea of carrying around every rom and every solution book is an attractive one (to me).

Thanks all.

                  
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #10 Posted by 聲gel Martin on 14 Sept 2010, 8:57 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by gene wright

Hi Gene, for sure I too agree the idea is a good one - it's just that it requires some work to put the stuff together in the proper way, even if the programs are somehow all "ready to go".

For instance, the programs would need to be transferred to V41 (nowdays this is the easiest way to do it, thanks to Meindert's MLDL2k manager SW) - which means creating RAW files for them. Then there's the question of the FAT and catalog setup (XROM numbers, etc). I'd reckon it'd take about a full week per module.

W.r.t. the Dungeon program, you could maybe use a wand to get the program on the 41, then use MLDL2k with Hepax emulation to create a ROM image that can be loaded to V41 -> work done ;-)

Cheers, 簍.

                        
Then all we need are some volunteers!
Message #11 Posted by gene wright on 14 Sept 2010, 10:38 a.m.,
in response to message #10 by 聲gel Martin

Since I hope a large number of people here will want one of the 41CL's for themselves, everyone will benefit with as many ROM images available as possible.

How about a list of volunteers? :-)

                              
Re: Then all we need are some volunteers!
Message #12 Posted by Meindert Kuipers on 14 Sept 2010, 1:53 p.m.,
in response to message #11 by gene wright

The 41CL looks really great to me, but why the hurry? I hope it is possible to put your own ROM images in the 41CL?

Meindert

                                    
Re: Then all we need are some volunteers!
Message #13 Posted by gene wright on 14 Sept 2010, 2:56 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by Meindert Kuipers

From what I understand, that will not be easy.

It is a replacement CPU board and will be in place inside the 41c.

No usb port. It does have a serial port, but you would have to attach wires and have them come through the HP 41 case.

Most probably won't do that.

So, it will not be as easy to upload new material to the 41CL as it would be to upload material to the MLDL2000 or NoVRAM solutions, if I'm understanding it correctly.

                                          
Re: Then all we need are some volunteers!
Message #14 Posted by Monte Dalrymple on 14 Sept 2010, 5:48 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by gene wright

There is a function in the 41CL that can be used to transfer from a Port into the internal RAM. From there it can be written to the Flash. So if you have something that plugs into a Port (like a MLDL2000 or NoVRAM) the transfer isn't any more difficult than getting the image into the MLDL2000 or NoVRAM. The only issue with this is that only Bank 1 can be transfered this way. The problem is control of the state of the Bank select for the page being transferred. This just means it's a little more complicated: you'll have to transfer one bank at a time and then assemble them in the RAM for aggregation into the Flash. I expect that anyone willing to go through this route won't be intimidated by the details. And you can always just leave it in RAM too.

                                                
Re: Then all we need are some volunteers!
Message #15 Posted by Geir Isene on 14 Sept 2010, 6:17 p.m.,
in response to message #14 by Monte Dalrymple

I missed the details on the 41CL; and can't find it in the archives. Could you fill me in on the details as to ETA and price?

                                                      
Link
Message #16 Posted by gene wright on 14 Sept 2010, 7:11 p.m.,
in response to message #15 by Geir Isene

41CL link including technical manual PDF

                                                      
Re: Then all we need are some volunteers!
Message #17 Posted by Monte Dalrymple on 14 Sept 2010, 8:08 p.m.,
in response to message #15 by Geir Isene

The details are in the appendices of the NEWT techincal manual at this point. At some point I will do a separate manual for the 41CL. ETA is a sore point right now. The chip that is needed to translate the 6 volt signals has a 26 week lead time, and my scheduled delivery date isn't until next July. Unfortunately it is only made by Texas Instruments and there is no real substitute. I can't comment on price yet. The quotes I have for getting the PCBs assembled seem excessive to me. Monte

                        
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #18 Posted by Geir Isene on 16 Sept 2010, 4:35 a.m.,
in response to message #10 by 聲gel Martin

Angel; Do you have a complete write-up of how you produce these FOCAL roms that you are now so eminently churning out?

                              
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #19 Posted by Angel Martin on 17 Sept 2010, 2:18 p.m.,
in response to message #18 by Geir Isene

Glad you asked Geir.- I wish I had, as I'll be the first one to follow it because every time I need to put another one together I end up having to rethink the whole process :(

Oh well, it's not so complex after all. I use MLDL2k Mananger to disassemble the contents of the HEPAX RAM memory. Such contents may get there either from RAW files using V41 or by means of Wand, reading the barcodes for the programs. The beauty of MLDL2k Manager is that it effectively merges both the real and the vistual worlds, as the same ROM file works on both.

Once it's disassembled I use my own programs to create ROM files from ASCII listings, then MLDL2k manager again to compile the MOD files. Done.

Hope this helps, let me know if you need more details and I'll be glad to elaborate further.

Cheers, 'AM

                                    
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #20 Posted by Geir Isene on 18 Sept 2010, 1:54 a.m.,
in response to message #19 by Angel Martin

I have never used the MLDL2k Manager.

It would be cool to have a baby-step-by-baby-step article describing the procedure :)

                  
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #21 Posted by Angel Martin on 17 Sept 2010, 2:20 p.m.,
in response to message #9 by gene wright

Got the Dungeon of Death in RAW format - thanks to Pauli who provided the barcodes.

We're one step closer now :)

      
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #22 Posted by Giovanni Jimenez on 15 Sept 2010, 9:40 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by gene wright

Do you know if there was ever a ROM created for Fuzzy Logic or Neural Networks computations ?

I haven't seen it available for the i41CX+, so I doubt it.

That would be e nice addition.

            
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #23 Posted by Giovanni Jimenez on 16 Sept 2010, 10:41 p.m.,
in response to message #22 by Giovanni Jimenez

If there is a Stats module for the HP-41, why is a Fuzzy Logic one so outrageous ?

      
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #24 Posted by Egan Ford on 15 Sept 2010, 6:13 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by gene wright

I'd like a Bluetooth module. OBEX should be implemented for easy code/data exchange. It should support HEPAX exchanges as well. SPP would also be nice so that I can replace my HP-IL/RS232 setup.

Hmmm... Eventually one could define a native HP-IL over BT profile.

Hmmm... A very small USB port should be added to flash/maintain the BT module. Of course since there will be a USB port on the module you might as well add some type of USB support for the 41Cs.

Hmmm... If you have the space add a Time Module so that when I upgrade to a CL I'll have a universal module for BT, USB, and TM.

Hmmm... Next to the mini USB port you could add an LED so that I can also use my 41CX as a flashlight.

            
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #25 Posted by 聲gel Martin on 16 Sept 2010, 3:05 a.m.,
in response to message #24 by Egan Ford

Egan, you forgot the "paperweight ROM" - made of a solid piece of lead that when plugged into the 41 turns it into the perfect, inmovable, reliable anchor for all your desk documents. :)

                  
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #26 Posted by Walter B on 16 Sept 2010, 3:43 a.m.,
in response to message #25 by 聲gel Martin

Ol 聲gel,

you know lead (Pb) being a pretty dense form of condensed matter. Since Steve Hawkings we know matter = information. So you could store some 10^23 bits (= 100 G TB !) of programs and data in the spin states of the lead electrons and have the paperweight ROM included for free ;)

Maybe you'd need a little bit of He-cooling, but you'll manage this - it's trivial engineer's work ;)

                  
Re: Ideas for new 41 roms
Message #27 Posted by Egan Ford on 16 Sept 2010, 10:33 a.m.,
in response to message #25 by 聲gel Martin

Quote:
made of a solid piece of lead
Gold, surely you meant gold.

Wait, wait, now I see it. Your 41CX lead module turns lead into gold, right?


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