Need help with HP82164A HP-IL/RS232 Interface

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Need help with HP82164A HP-IL/RS232 Interface
Message #1 Posted by Ilyas B. on 1 Nov 2009, 9:23 a.m.

Hello! I'm new user of HP-71B. I'm student and I use it heavy for my studies.I've computer with RS232 interface. I lost many useful programs and need type it again. Somebody can help me found easy way how to save/load my programs to/from PC. I don't know with software and what a commands I've to use. With respect,

Re: Need help with HP82164A HP-IL/RS232 Interface
Message #2 Posted by Egan Ford on 1 Nov 2009, 10:17 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Ilyas B.

Quote:
Hello! I'm new user of HP-71B. I'm student and I use it heavy for my studies.
Wow! Why? Of all the modern options why the 71B?
Quote:
I've computer with RS232 interface. I lost many useful programs and need type it again. Somebody can help me found easy way how to save/load my programs to/from PC. I don't know with software and what a commands I've to use. With respect,
IIRC, here is the general idea:

Install EMU71 (free version, http://www.jeffcalc.hp41.eu/emu71/index.html). Get all your programs running in there (you can cut/paste them in or use DOSLINK, read the EMU71 docs).
Make this cable: http://www.jeffcalc.hp41.eu/emu71/files/serialcable.pdf. Run the little 71B program at the end of the doc on your 71B. Then connect the IL-RS232 device to your PC.
Configure EMU71 to use the serial port the IL-RS232 is connected to.
From EMU71 type COPY PROGRAM TO SERIAL1:
From 71B type COPY :HP82164A TO PROGRAM
The above may or may not work, I think I have done it once. I have not had to rely on this method because I have an ISA HP-IL adapter in an old PC for this type of work. However, that recently changed with the introduction of the PIL-Box (USB to HP-IL, http://www.jeffcalc.hp41.eu/hpil/index.html).

Re: Need help with HP82164A HP-IL/RS232 Interface
Message #3 Posted by Garth Wilson on 1 Nov 2009, 4:35 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Egan Ford

Quote:
Wow! Why? Of all the modern options why the 71B?
There's a reason some of us keep asking that HP go back to what they used to have. Their newer offerings are not better than the old. My 71 with its modules, extra 160KB of RAM, many LEX files from the user groups, and better manuals is worth far more to me than my 50g. AFAIK, there are precisely zero modern handheld options that can act as a lab instumentation controller.

Re: Need help with HP82164A HP-IL/RS232 Interface
Message #4 Posted by Ángel Martin on 2 Nov 2009, 4:20 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by Garth Wilson

Quote:
Their newer offerings are not better than the old
Well said, I'm on the same track here.
Nevertheless it's quite interesting finding this to be the choice for today's students - if not for anything, consider how unknown the old systems are - or at least I thought so.

Re: Need help with HP82164A HP-IL/RS232 Interface
Message #5 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 2 Nov 2009, 4:50 a.m.,
in response to message #4 by Ángel Martin

Hola, Ángel; ¿que tal?

Quote:
(...)consider how unknown the old systems are (...)
If the old systems are actually unknown at a certain extent (and I agree with that), what can we say about the new ones, with billion times more system and virtual memory than the old ones? Who'd dare explaining, or even understanding, a source code generated by a sub-code from a builder after some newbie (wannabe?) 'explains' the system what he believes he wants the system to do in a dozen lines? The idea scares me!
Cheers.
Luiz (Brazil)

Re: Need help with HP82164A HP-IL/RS232 Interface
Message #6 Posted by Egan Ford on 2 Nov 2009, 12:49 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Garth Wilson

Quote:
There's a reason some of us keep asking that HP go back to what they used to have. Their newer offerings are not better than the old.
You and I are biased having been there, done that. I'd like to know why a 20-something (assumed) student independently determined that the 71B in 2009 best fit his needs.
Quote:
My 71 with its modules, extra 160KB of RAM, many LEX files from the user groups, and better manuals is worth far more to me than my 50g.
The 50g AUR is actually quiet good and searchable. The size of the user contributed code for the 50g from hpcalc.org and other sources easily eclipses the 71B. The 50g has modern I/O options. And there is a very good 71B emulator for the 50g.
I am not trying to say the 50g is better or to argue that the 71B is not best for you, but someone making a comparison in 2009 would most likely select the 50g.
Quote:
AFAIK, there are precisely zero modern handheld options that can act as a lab instrumentation controller.
I know nothing of this space, but I'd wager that the percentage of people that care about such things rounds to zero. Simply because if a larger percentage cared then the market would (should) meet demand.

Re: Need help with HP82164A HP-IL/RS232 Interface
Message #7 Posted by Garth Wilson on 2 Nov 2009, 9:04 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by Egan Ford

Quote:
Quote:
AFAIK, there are precisely zero modern handheld options that can act as a lab instrumentation controller.
I know nothing of this space, but I'd wager that the percentage of people that care about such things rounds to zero.
So I've sensed, at least from this forum; but it makes me wonder why anyone would want a ton of speed and memory if they can't get a ton of data into it quickly to operate on, by reading it over an interface from instrumentation, and can't do anything useful with the voluminous results except maybe view a little of it in a small built-in screen. So what gives?
Edited: 2 Nov 2009, 9:04 p.m.

Re: Need help with HP82164A HP-IL/RS232 Interface
Message #8 Posted by Ilyas B. on 2 Nov 2009, 3:49 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Egan Ford

Hi Egan! Thank you for your answer. In our university forbidden use of modern graphical calculators on exams. Only non-graphical. We've a lot of matrix and others calculations. I wrote many programs in basic what help me very much. Usually I use Sharp PC-E500, but it has a graphical display and can't be used in exam. The HP-71B looks a great machine but save/load is much complicated. Regarding to EMU71, I tried it and it not working. Don't know why. Could you advice another terminal program?
With respect,
ILYAS

Re: Need help with HP82164A HP-IL/RS232 Interface
Message #9 Posted by Egan Ford on 2 Nov 2009, 4:01 p.m.,
in response to message #8 by Ilyas B.

Quote:
Hi Egan! Thank you for your answer. In our university forbidden use of modern graphical calculators on exams. Only non-graphical. We've a lot of matrix and others calculations.
Too bad the 42S was not still around. It'd be perfect.
Quote:
I wrote many programs in basic what help me very much. Usually I use Sharp PC-E500, but it has a graphical display and can't be used in exam.
Wow! Another oldie.
Quote:
The HP-71B looks a great machine but save/load is much complicated. Regarding to EMU71, I tried it and it not working. Don't know why.
What OS are you running? What problem did you have with EMU71? Were you able to use EMU71 and run your programs? Was file xfer the only problem?
Quote:
Could you advice another terminal program?
I have used Hyperterminal. But I had to write a small program to capture the text.
If I have time this evening I'll build a custom cable and give it a go.

Re: Need help with HP82164A HP-IL/RS232 Interface
Message #10 Posted by Garth Wilson on 2 Nov 2009, 6:15 p.m.,
in response to message #8 by Ilyas B.

Quote:
We have a lot of matrix and others calculations. I wrote many programs in basic what help me very much.
Do you have the math ROM for the 71? It has all the matrix operations in assembly language so it's much, much faster than anything you'll write in BASIC.
The 71's display can do graphics but only 8 dots tall. I wrote Forth utilities for it to display two lines of 33 or 44 tiny characters per line. The graphics capabilities of modern calculators are of almost no value to me though.

Re: Need help with HP82164A HP-IL/RS232 Interface
Message #11 Posted by Egan Ford on 3 Nov 2009, 11:54 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by Ilyas B.

Quote:
Could you advice another terminal program?
I did not have a lot of time, but this worked for me.
Create the following programs:
T2S:
10 REMOTE @ OUTPUT :HP82164A ;"LI5;C0" @ LOCAL 20 ON ERROR GOTO 120 30 DESTROY ALL 40 DIM A$[100] 50 INPUT "FILENAME:";F$ 60 TRANSFORM F$ INTO TEXT TMPFILE 70 ASSIGN #1 TO TMPFILE 80 READ #1;A$ 90 DISP A$ 100 OUTPUT :HP82164A ;A$ 110 GOTO 80 120 OUTPUT :HP82164A ;"EOF" 130 PURGE TMPFILE 140 END
S2T:
10 REMOTE @ OUTPUT :HP82164A ;"LI5;C0;SL2" @ LOCAL 20 DESTROY ALL 30 DIM A$[100] 40 INPUT "FILENAME:";F$ 50 PURGE F$ 60 CREATE TEXT F$ 70 ASSIGN #1 TO F$ 80 ENTER :HP82164A ;A$ 90 IF A$="EOF" THEN CLEAR :HP82164A @ GOTO 130 100 DISP A$ 110 PRINT #1;A$ 120 GOTO 80 130 ASSIGN #1 TO * @ TRANSFORM F$ INTO BASIC 140 END
Connect the 82164 to your PC with a standard null modem cable, do not use the custom cable (did not work for me).
Launch Hyperterminal, setup with 9600 BPS, 8N1, Hardware Flow, and terminate lines with LF (Hint: Properties/Settings/ASCII Setup/Send line ends with line feeds).
To backup a BASIC program run T2S, from HT just cut and paste the output into notepad.
To restore a BASIC program run S2T, from notepad cut and pasted into HT. NOTE: Your input must end with the line EOF<cr>. If not, just type EOF<cr> in HT.
There is a minor issue I did not have time to resolve, so after each transfer power off your 71B, press reset on the 82164, power 71B back on.
Good luck.
P.S. Sell your 82164 and get a PIL-Box (USB to HP-IL). It will be easier.
Edited: 3 Nov 2009, 12:01 p.m.

Re: Need help with HP82164A HP-IL/RS232 Interface
Message #12 Posted by Ilyas.B. on 13 Nov 2009, 2:28 a.m.,
in response to message #11 by Egan Ford

Thank you for your great proffessional support! King regards, Ilyas

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