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HP Forum Archive 19

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Challenge: Open-ended Dice on the HP-41
Message #1 Posted by Geir Isene on 6 Sept 2009, 8:12 a.m.

This challenge is derived from creating applications for the Amar role-playing game. It is a challenge involving the extension of the normal dice with 6 sides - a so called open-ended dice throw.

Definition: Take a dice with 6 sides. Now we would like to extend the range of the numbers beyond the intrinsic 1 to 6. A way to accomplish that is to make the 1 and the 6 special cases. Whenever you throw a 6, you can extend the range by making another throw. A throw of 4 to 6 (50%) will add 1 to the original 6. Throw again and a result of 4 to 6 will again add 1 to the number (making it 8) etc. Every throw of 4 to 6 will add one until you get a 1, 2 or 3, then it stops. Conversely, throwing a 1 on the first throw is a special case. Throw again, and a result of 1 to 3 will subtract 1 from the original number. Keep throwing 1, 2 or 3 to subtract one... until you throw a 4, 5 or 6 - then it stops. Now we add a dimension; Whenever you throw two 6's consecutively it is marked as a "critical". A throw of two consecutive 1's is a "fumble". All this is called an "open-ended" dice throw. A normal dice roll is termed a D6, an open-ended roll is O6.

Challenge: Create a program for the HP-41 that does open-ended dice rolls. It should show whether the roll also includes a "critical"/"fumble". Do this without using any storage registers - i.e. only using the stack (and the Alpha register if you wish).

I will publish my solution for dissection in a few days :-)

      
Re: Challenge: Open-ended Dice on the HP-41
Message #2 Posted by hugh steers on 6 Sept 2009, 3:29 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Geir Isene

i was interested in how far out from [1,6] the "openness" might get. So i hacked up a quick program in Lua to print out a histogram. here's what i get after a million goes:

the first column is the value and the second the percentage of trials hitting that value.

1       8.2905
2       16.6888
3       16.6197
4       16.6964
5       16.7057
6       8.3628
7       4.1587
8       2.0964
9       1.0276
10      0.5105
11      0.264
12      0.1336
13      0.0652
14      0.0334
15      0.0141
16      0.0092
17      0.0041
18      0.0024
19      0.0011
20      0.0003
21      0.0002
22      0.0001
23      0.0002
-1      2.0857
0       4.1388
-2      1.0439
-3      0.5196
-4      0.2631
-5      0.1331
-6      0.0665
-7      0.0324
-8      0.0163
-9      0.0072
-10     0.0041
-11     0.0015
-12     0.0013
-13     0.0008
-14     0.0005
-15     0.0001
-16     0.0001
total   100
critical =      2.7771
fumble =        2.7606

So we have a [2,4] plateau (1/6 as expected), then 50% falloff each side. However, it's interesting to note that the "critical" and "fumble" percentages are almost 1 in 36.

This indicates that you don't really get much difference tracking consecutive 1's and 6's after the first go. Consequently, i modified my simulator to count a "critical" as 2 6's at the start and a "fumble" as 2 1's. here's what i get:

1       8.2841
2       16.659
3       16.6423
4       16.7312
5       16.7244
6       8.2914
7       4.2017
8       2.0684
9       1.0386
10      0.5212
11      0.2641
12      0.1315
13      0.0618
14      0.0322
15      0.0185
16      0.0073
17      0.0041
18      0.002
19      0.0012
20      0.0006
22      0.0001
23      0.0001
24      0.0001
-7      0.0298
-8      0.0176
-9      0.0072
-10     0.0033
-11     0.0024
-12     0.0006
-13     0.0006
-14     0.0003
-1      2.0799
0       4.1518
-2      1.0266
-3      0.5313
-4      0.2638
-5      0.1286
-6      0.0701
-15     0.0002
total   100
critical =      2.7716
fumble =        2.7501

Similar story. So i would say, for the purposes of generating values for Amar, you could simplify your algorithm on the 41c and not track consecutive values. which should shorten the program.

here are my two versions. o6() is the "real" algorithm and "os6plain" is my hacked one.

function d6()
   return math.floor(math.random()*6+1)
end

function o6()
   local v = d6()
   local d
   local crit = false
   local fumb = false
   local c = true
   if v == 6 then
      while true do
         d = d6()
         if d >= 4 then
            v = v + 1
            if d == 6 then
               crit = c
               c = true
            else
               c = false
            end
         else break
         end
      end
   elseif v == 1 then
      while true do
         d = d6()
         if d < 4 then
            v = v - 1
            if d == 1 then
               fumb = c
               c = true
            else
               c = false
            end
         else break
         end
      end
   end
   return v,crit,fumb
end

function o6plain()
   local v = d6()
   local crit = false
   local fumb = false
   if v == 6 then
      crit = d6() == 6
      while d6() >= 4 do v = v + 1 end
   elseif v == 1 then
      fumb = d6() == 1
      while d6() < 4 do v = v - 1 end
   end
   return v,crit,fumb
end

            
Re: Challenge: Open-ended Dice on the HP-41
Message #3 Posted by hugh steers on 6 Sept 2009, 3:38 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by hugh steers

Uh-oh! i made a mistake tracking the consecutive values. The difference is actually more - about 3% instead of 2.7

should be,

function o6()
   local v = d6()
   local d
   local crit = false
   local fumb = false
   local c = true
   if v == 6 then
      while true do
         d = d6()
         if d >= 4 then
            v = v + 1
            if d == 6 then
               if c then crit = true end
               c = true
            else
               c = false
            end
         else break
         end
      end
   elseif v == 1 then
      while true do
         d = d6()
         if d < 4 then
            v = v - 1
            if d == 1 then
               if c then fumb = true end
               c = true
            else
               c = false
            end
         else break
         end
      end
   end
   return v,crit,fumb
end

so, it depends on whether you really want to track consecutive values or not.

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