HP Forum Archive 18

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Proposed rule regarding ebay discussions Message #1 Posted by Dave Hicks on 20 Feb 2008, 7:06 p.m. There's a dispute going on between a couple of ebay users below in which one feels disadvantaged because his name and ebay identity is known and the other person's is not. We had a similar situation with two other ebay users a few years back. There may or may not be a rule at ebay forbidding users from talking about other users and/or auctions. I don't intend to go read ebay's rules and attempt to enforce them here, but if you're an ebay user, you've apparently agreed to them. So my proposal is simply that if you are going to refer to any specific ebay auction(s) or ebay user(s) in posts here at the HP forum, then you must include your ebay ID. This puts you on equal footing with the person you're talking about. Also, if there is some ebay rule being violated, then both parties have the information needed to take up the issue with ebay. In the current case, I've dug around a bit and determined the ebay ID of the "anonymous" party, so if he makes one up, I'll know. In other cases, the person being criticized can use ebay's communication facilities to verify the ID. ie the criticized party can ask via ebay if they posted the message here and if there is no response or a negative response, then a moderator can delete the post. (and possibly the user account if it keeps up.) I don't want to limit free speech - I think this leaves the speech free but also makes it fair to both parties. Please let me know if you see any problems with this. Dave

Re: Proposed rule regarding ebay discussions Message #2 Posted by bill platt on 20 Feb 2008, 7:36 p.m., in response to message #1 by Dave Hicks Hi Dave: That sounds like a pretty solid proposal. However I do have two observations: 1. If a person has no ebay ID, then what? 2. Ebay ID could be wrong.

Re: Proposed rule regarding ebay discussions Message #3 Posted by Dave Hicks on 20 Feb 2008, 7:55 p.m., in response to message #2 by bill platt I would say that a person without an ebay account has little reason to come here to complain about a specific person or auction on ebay. He could complain about ebay in general and we won't require an account for that. I think most questions/issues on ebay should start with communication between the seller and the concerned person anyway, which also requires an ebay account. For example we had a thread below about a "new" item without a manual. I know several ways that could happen but only the seller knows how it did. As for wrong ID, the person being criticized should get verification through ebay's communication system. If the ebayer says it's not him, we'll remove the message. If it happens again, we'll remove the user. Since the person being criticized must have an ebay account too, this shouldn't be an imposition.

Re: Proposed rule regarding ebay discussions Message #4 Posted by Randy on 20 Feb 2008, 8:20 p.m., in response to message #3 by Dave Hicks What about the eBay'ers with multiple accounts? Which account do they post under or do they list all accounts? Starts to get pretty messy, pretty much like the threads that started all this. Having been the originator of, or at least guilty of piling on after the fact of many a eBay related post, I find the most recent exchanges not in the spirit of the group here at large. In the past, many silly or just plain ridiculous auctions provided some comic relief. Honestly, who doesn't find some silliness in a broken HP10 in a box for $925? If somebody thinks that is a good deal, why should I tell them otherwise? After all, eBay seems to have become a place where it's not about what something is worth but rather about what someone will pay. IMO, this latest round of name calling and finger pointing is just plain annoying. It has nothing to do with what we discuss here and doesn't serve anybody but those throwing the rocks at each other. I know that the last time the whole eBay thing got out of hand, I voted to keep the rules as is but honestly after this last bit of back and forth, it is no longer amusing and I think I would rather see no eBay related posts at all. Auctions only last a week and then they are over. Having all that archived seems quite the waste when there are far more interesting things to discuss... So, coming back to the topic at hand, my response would be sure, if you want to post an eBay auction here for the public to see, yes, you must include all your eBay identities. Not at all unreasonable.

Re: Proposed rule regarding ebay discussions Message #5 Posted by Dave Hicks on 20 Feb 2008, 8:43 p.m., in response to message #4 by Randy I'm hoping that if any ebay rule is being broken, that ebay would be willing and able to do the detective work to link multiple accounts. For example I was able to figure out an ebay account and I'm not even being paid. ;-) Between ebay and paypal, I would hope they have some idea of who they're dealing with, but I don't consider it our issue to solve an ebay problem. If they let people easily create multiple accounts then they're creating a wild west situation and at least we're not making it worse. I hope it's hard enough to create multiple accounts and keep them truly separate/anonymous that most users wouldn't want to risk one just to complain on some forum.

Re: Proposed rule regarding ebay discussions Message #6 Posted by Allen on 20 Feb 2008, 9:09 p.m., in response to message #4 by Randy Quote: ...it is no longer amusing and I think I would rather see no eBay related posts at all... I agree completely. I do not start ebay threads, and do not find much value in them. My interest with this forum is in programming and collecting calculators. I have tolerated some the banter in the interest of open discussion, however my tolerance for these anonymous complaints has reached the end for reasons noted in my previous post. I think that Dave's proposal is fair, and I request that the suspected identity of the anonymous user be revealed (via email) so that I can confirm through eBay Communications channels if this is indeed the case- by non-response or negative response. (per the procedure outlined above)

Re: Proposed rule regarding ebay discussions Message #7 Posted by Martin Pinckney on 22 Feb 2008, 6:16 p.m., in response to message #4 by Randy Quote: After all, eBay seems to have become a place where it's not about what something is worth but rather about what someone will pay. Is there a difference?

Re: Proposed rule regarding ebay discussions Message #8 Posted by PeterP on 20 Feb 2008, 9:12 p.m., in response to message #1 by Dave Hicks this sounds like a very solid rule to me, Dave. And, for what its worth, thanks for having me here, your page is, next to Google, my most often frequented page and I am grateful for all the knowledgeable people I could meet here.

Re: Proposed rule regarding ebay discussions Message #9 Posted by Walter B on 21 Feb 2008, 1:49 a.m., in response to message #1 by Dave Hicks Hi Dave, sounds solid to me, too. IIRC, the "value" of ebay-related threads has decreased significantly in last time, so I won't care if such threads are relocated into the Ads section anyway. Your proposed rule shall apply there, too. IMO this combined action may solve the problem effectively.

Good Idea - I have no problem with it (eBay ID: mikesdavis) Message #10 Posted by Mike on 21 Feb 2008, 12:46 p.m., in response to message #1 by Dave Hicks My ebay ID is "mikesdavis" and I think everyone already knows that. However, almost everyone here has an ebay ID, whether or not they will admit it AND I have found that the ones with the biggest mouths, live to hide behind anonymity. \ BTW, there is no rule against commenting on auctions on other sites. First, ebay has no control over that. Second, there is only rules against interferring with an ongoing transaction by contacting seller or buyer. Everything else outside of ebay is none of their business. Further, members have never been asked to agree not to do so. Edited: 21 Feb 2008, 2:18 p.m.

Re: Proposed rule regarding ebay discussions Message #11 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 23 Feb 2008, 3:13 a.m., in response to message #1 by Dave Hicks Good idea.

Re: Good idea, but ... Message #12 Posted by Maximilian Hohmann on 23 Feb 2008, 11:55 a.m., in response to message #1 by Dave Hicks Hello! The idea is good and I wouldn't mind revealing my eBay-ID within the scope of this forum at all. But as I post here under my real name and the contents of this forum is visible to google, the whole world would easily be able to link my eBay-ID to my name - something that I do not want to happen under any circumstance! Greetings, Max

Re: Good idea, but ... Message #13 Posted by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) on 23 Feb 2008, 2:11 p.m., in response to message #12 by Maximilian Hohmann Quote: the whole world would easily be able to link my eBay-ID to my name - something that I do not want to happen under any circumstance! Greetings, Max Alongside my PM to you, may I refer you to this post...

Re: Good idea, but ... Message #14 Posted by Maximilian Hohmann on 23 Feb 2008, 4:24 p.m., in response to message #13 by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) Hello George, Quote: Alongside my PM to you, may I refer you to this post... You are right about your guess in your PM - but to come to this conclusion, you need to know both my posting history here and my eBay-bidding behaviour (*), something that google is not (yet) able to combine. The same way as you were able to link my eBay-ID to my name, I could do this for maybe 30-50 percent of the regular posters here (some of which I have already dealt with via eBay!) - but again, this needs more combinatorial skill than google can offer. And therefore, like you, I can't accept my name linked to my eBay (or other secret/private/peronal) ID within the same piece of html-code. Greetings, Max (*) I am bidding on so many items because the use of external bidding agents ('snipers') is explicitely forbidden under the rules of eBay Germany. And since my flying job keeps me away from my computer at unpredictable times, I have to bid early on all items that I might be interested in...

Re: Good idea, but ... Message #15 Posted by Walter B on 24 Feb 2008, 8:16 a.m., in response to message #14 by Maximilian Hohmann Quote: ... because the use of external bidding agents ('snipers') is explicitely forbidden under the rules of eBay Germany. That clarifies a lot. I wondered for long about the complaints I read here about snipers. Always assumed they were people. So I was bewildered since sniping manually is part of auction fun IMO. Thanks for enlightenment :)

Re: Good idea, but ... Message #16 Posted by Jorge Amodio on 29 Feb 2008, 11:54 a.m., in response to message #15 by Walter B Quote: So I was bewildered since sniping manually is part of auction fun IMO. Entering your bid in the last few seconds of an auction provides a lot of adrenaline to the fact of spending money on old-junk ... well fantastic and loved old junk :-) Cheers

Re: Proposed rule regarding ebay discussions Message #17 Posted by Forrest Switzer on 23 Feb 2008, 12:06 p.m., in response to message #1 by Dave Hicks A simple solution would be to only allow comments about the items being sold, and their cost. Nothing positive or negative about the seller, including Coburlin. No one here should be trying to police the sale. If they want to do that then they should take that up with EBay.

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