HP Forum Archive 18

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Question from a lazy (lost?) guy Message #1 Posted by Olivier TREGER on 9 Feb 2008, 10:25 p.m. Hello fellow HP addicts I once read an article in this forum talking about the uselessness of teaching RPN to our kids. I remember it was a VERY long article but made sense in every aspect. I've tried to use the search function to get it back with no success. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Thanks for your help

Re: Question from a lazy (lost?) guy Message #2 Posted by designnut on 10 Feb 2008, 12:07 a.m., in response to message #1 by Olivier TREGER Is this what you seek? Enter the right search terms in google and find anything. Sam http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reverse_Polish_notation

Re: Question from a lazy (lost?) guy Message #3 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 10 Feb 2008, 2:39 a.m., in response to message #1 by Olivier TREGER Perhaps you'll find it among the messages in this thread ? RPN for Kids Best regards from V.

Re: Question from a lazy (lost?) guy Message #4 Posted by Olivier TREGER on 10 Feb 2008, 10:35 a.m., in response to message #3 by Valentin Albillo That's exactly what I was looking for. Thank you very much

Re: Question from a lazy (lost?) guy Message #5 Posted by Mike Reed on 10 Feb 2008, 2:51 p.m., in response to message #3 by Valentin Albillo WOW!!! How did I miss that LOVELY debate! Thanks Valentin for the reference. I read the whole thing, and was suitably impressed with both sides arguments. I agree that there needs to be more than one way to do things, ANY things. I don't think, at this point, that we will ever see RPN taught in classrooms - it has for any of many reasons become the NON-standard method, even if it has advantages over algebraic. How many of you type on the Devorak keyboard?? The "qwerty" keyboard was INTENTIONALLY designed to SLOW a typist down!!! Why? Because of "key clash" problems on the old mechanical typewriters (remember those?)- when keys jammed together as a result of typing too fast. (Two or more objects trying to occupy the same space at the same time.) With the advent of computers, word processors, et al., this is no longer a problem. So, WHY are we not using/teaching the Devorak layout to students, now? It is because the "qwerty" layout has become the standard, EVEN IF IT IS LESS EFFICIENT. Does that mean there is only one way of (inputting) typing? No - the Devorak layout is still out there, and can be found if a diligent enough search is made by one who wishes speed and ease of entry over the "standardized" paradigm. The resultant text (output) from both is the same. In the same way, RPN is "out there" and will be found by those who want what it has to offer. The chicken cannot be put back in the egg shell. Too many of us are familiar with it, and understand it's perceived advantages for it ever to fade into obscurity. But it IS our duty, as loyal users, to attempt to educate and encourage youngsters in the direction of using RPN. Who knows, you might be teaching the next Einstein! And he might never have "gotten it" without your initial push! ;o) polarbear Mike

Devorak Message #6 Posted by Mike Reed on 10 Feb 2008, 3:14 p.m., in response to message #5 by Mike Reed P.S. OT - By the way, I use and like the Devorak layout, when I can find it, but then, I like RPN too! Microsoft, in the earlier versions of "windoze", made it possible and easy to change the keyboard layout to Devorak but that seems to have been removed from the newer versions. At least, I can't find it any more... If I'm incorrect about this, I would really appreciate someone telling me where the setting is that can be changed in XP to get it back again! If it really is gone, is there a program that will do that same thing? Thanx! PbM

Re: Dvorak Message #7 Posted by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) on 10 Feb 2008, 3:22 p.m., in response to message #6 by Mike Reed Maybe if you search for Dvorak simplified keyboard, you may find what you were looking for... ;-) Edited: 10 Feb 2008, 3:32 p.m.

Re: Dvorak Message #8 Posted by Mike Reed on 10 Feb 2008, 4:13 p.m., in response to message #7 by George Bailey (Bedford Falls) LOL - DUHHHHHH! How to feel really DUMB in ONE easy lesson! Thank you VERY much, George - it worked! I have my beloved DVORAK keyboard back, finally! pbM

Dvorak keyboard Message #9 Posted by Karl Schneider on 10 Feb 2008, 4:24 p.m., in response to message #5 by Mike Reed Quote: The "qwerty" keyboard was INTENTIONALLY designed to SLOW a typist down!!! Why? Because of "key clash" problems on the old mechanical typewriters (remember those?)- when keys jammed together as a result of typing too fast. (Two or more objects trying to occupy the same space at the same time.) With the advent of computers, word processors, et al., this is no longer a problem. Mike -- Good points about the Dvorak keyboard. George's post provides a link to its Wikipedia article, which in turn provides a link to the Wikipedia article of the IBM Selectric. I used one of these occasionally in the early 1980's, before PC's and word-processing software became commonplace. The Selectric and its "golf ball" printing head was introduced in 1961, according to the article. Earlier electric typewriters reduced the risk of jammed keys (due to their faster operation), but the Selectric rendered simultaneous printing impossible. My bad typing practices (watching the keyboard instead of the screen) have impaired my accuracy, but the traditional keyboard certainly doesn't help. I should take another look at getting Dvorak keyboards at home and work. -- KS Edited: 11 Feb 2008, 3:26 a.m.

Re: Dvorak keyboard Message #10 Posted by Alex L on 11 Feb 2008, 4:02 p.m., in response to message #9 by Karl Schneider Ahhh, Dvorak. I used to work at a university. So one summer while things were slower, I bought keycap stickers for two keyboards and used Dvorak exclusively by putting one at home and one at work. The temporary sticker crutch helped during the first week or so. I've never looked back. Now, I use conventionally labeled keyboards, and just set Dvorak in software. I have to touch-type, and over time my speed has only increased. Whether that's due to the keyboard arrangement or to the fact that looking at the keys is useless and thus can't slow me down, I cannot say. In any case, it also provides a tiny bit of security by obscurity, as password glancers have no idea what I'm typing. :)

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