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Catalog Plus for HP75C/D Rev 2
Message #1 Posted by gileno on 28 July 2007, 7:30 p.m.

Catalog Plus for HP75C/D Rev 2

1 DELAY 0 @ I=1 2 A$=CAT$(I) @ IF A$="" THEN I=I -1 @ GOTO 2 ELSE DISP A$ 3 B$=WKEY$ @ IF B$="" THEN I=I+ 1 4 IF B$="" THEN I=I-1 @ GOTO 13 5 IF B$='p' THEN C$="Purge" @ GO SUB 15 @ GOTO 16 6 IF B$='e' AND A$[12,12]="B" TH EN C$="Edit" @ GOSUB 15 @ GOTO 2 1 7 IF B$='r' AND A$[12,12]="B" TH EN C$="Run" @ GOSUB 15 @ GOTO 22 8 IF B$='c' THEN C$="Copy to car d" @ GOSUB 15 @ GOTO 17 9 IF B$='d' THEN C$="Copy to dri ve" @ GOSUB 15 @ GOTO 19 10 IF B$="b" THEN BYE 11 IF B$='i' THEN C$="Print" @ G OSUB 15 @ GOTO 23 12 GOTO 2 13 IF I=0 THEN I=1 14 GOTO 2 15 A=GETMSG(A$[1,11]&C$&"? [YN]: ","yn") @ RETURN 16 IF A=1 THEN PURGE A$ @ GOTO 1 ELSE GOTO 2 17 IF A=1 THEN COPY A$ TO CARD 18 GOTO 2 19 IF A=1 THEN COPY A$ TO ":d0" 20 GOTO 2 21 IF A=1 THEN EDIT A$ @ END ELS E GOTO 2 22 IF A=1 THEN RUN A$ ELSE GOTO 2 23 IF A=2 THEN GOTO 2 ELSE B$=CH R$(27)&"&k" @ A$=A$[1,POS(A$," " )-1] 24 PRINT B$&"1S";TAB((13-LEN(A$) )/2);A$;B$&"0S" 25 FOR I=0 TO 99 @ C$=CAT$(I) 26 IF POS(C$,A$)>0 THEN PRINT TA B(6);C$[13,18]&'bytes' @ GOTO 28 27 NEXT I 28 PRINT @ B$=DATE$ @ PRINT TAB( 3);B$[7,8]&B$[3,6]&B$[1,2]&" "& TIME$ @ PRINT 29 PLIST A$ @ PRINT @ GOTO 2

934 bytes

Up = Up Down = Down p = Purge e = Edit * r = Run * c = Copy to Card d = Copy to Drive b = Bye i = Print *

* Only basic file

Questions? Optimization?

      
Re: Catalog Plus for HP75C/D Rev 2
Message #2 Posted by J-F Garnier on 30 July 2007, 4:48 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by gileno

Hello Gileno,

Nice to read a post about the HP75!

Can you specify what ROM or LEX are you using? I noticed some keywords like WKEY$ or GETMSG that are not part of the bare machine.

J-F

            
Re: Catalog Plus for HP75C/D Rev 2
Message #3 Posted by gileno on 30 July 2007, 5:50 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by J-F Garnier

KEYLEX75

Thank's :-)

            
Re: Catalog Plus for HP75C/D Rev 2
Message #4 Posted by Howard Owen on 30 July 2007, 7:09 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by J-F Garnier

Quote:
Nice to read a post about the HP75!


The HP-75C/D is neglected because, I think, of its younger, smarter brother, the HP-71B. I had a 75 several months before I got my first 71. It was lots of fun, what with all the software on the swap disks aimed at the platform. But ny first 71B blew away the 75 in terms of memory and capability of the BASIC implementation. And there are depths to plumb on the 71 that either aren't there on the 75, or are far less capable. Still, it's almost possible to touch type on the 75's keyboard. And it's a capable HP-IL controller, with the addition of the I/O ROM.

It is very nice to see someone working on the platform. Thanks, Gileno!

Regards,
Howard

                  
Re: Catalog Plus for HP75C/D Rev 2
Message #5 Posted by gileno on 30 July 2007, 7:14 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Howard Owen

Thank's

                  
HP75C/D vs. HP-71B
Message #6 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 30 July 2007, 7:30 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Howard Owen

Hi, Howard:

    I also had an HP-75C at the time it was released, and was able to use it a little and write programs for it, then the HP-71B was released as well.

    The HP-75C had some very good things when compared to the HP-71B but ultimately many shortcomings as well, for instance:

    • Good: an 8-bit Capricorn CPU, the same as the HP-85, which I already knew how to program directly in Assembler. Matter of fact, many of the internal routines were taken directly from the HP-85 internal ROMs, with nearly the same inputs and outputs, so I already could make sense of them. And it was pretty fast, nearly as fast as the HP-85 itself.

      In contrast, the HP-71B had a new 4-bit Saturn CPU, which was a mistery to me at the time, and it was nearly 5 times slower than the HP-75C's.

    • Good: larger display, nice and wide keyboard, versus the utterly insufficient 71B display and small, calculator-like keyboard.

    • Bad: very large and heavy, required a briefcase at the very least and considerable tabletop room.

    • Bad: Very little RAM, even with expensive add-ons such as the Pod, versus the 512 Kb address space of the HP-71B, which was enormous by the usual standards back then (16 Kb, 32 Kb, 64 Kb, ...)

    • Bad: No PEEK/POKE built-in, which made LEX-programming bootstrap impossible. You needed a PEEK/POLE LEX somehow before you could do anything of the sort. On the other hand, you could enter LEX files on a bare-bones HP-71B with a program using just standard instructions.

    • Bad: The all-important Math ROM functionality and design couldn't hold a candle to that of the HP-71B, most specially regarding complex number dimensioning and functionality.

    • Bad: The BASIC dialect of the HP-71B was much better than the one in the HP-75C in many important aspects, and with the exception of the so-called IO ROM, the HP-71B had better ROMs and peripheral capabilities.

Best regards from V.

                        
Re: HP75C/D vs. HP-71B
Message #7 Posted by Howard Owen on 31 July 2007, 4:39 a.m.,
in response to message #6 by Valentin Albillo

Hi, Valentin,

Quote:

I also had an HP-75C at the time it was released, and was able to use it a little and write programs for it, then the HP-71B was released as well.


I actually never owned either until about three years ago. So, as in so many things having to do with HP machines, you were there way ahead of me.

Quote:
The HP-75C had some very good things when compared to the HP-71B but ultimately many shortcomings as well, for instance:

..


That's a very good list I would add one other thing the HP-75 had that the HP-71 lacked was an implementation of Visicalc. With the one line display and limited memory, it was a bit impractical as a spreadsheet. But you could call the Visicalc routines from BASIC, effectively giving you a language extension consisting of spreadsheet formulas.

Quote:
.. Good: an 8-bit Capricorn CPU, the same as the HP-85, which I already knew how to program directly in Assembler.

Does an assembler for the HP-75 exist, or did you cross assemble on the 85?

Regards,
Howard

                              
Re: HP75C/D vs. HP-71B
Message #8 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 31 July 2007, 8:08 a.m.,
in response to message #7 by Howard Owen

Hi, Howard:

    Briefly, as I must go on a long trip right now:

    1. Visicalc was a wonderful effort, but absolutely marred by the small one-line display and the utter lack of memory. Visicalc spreadsheets took large amounts of RAM for everything except trivial cases and forced you to do all kinds of tricks to be able to work with them in the limited RAM. The Pod was almost mandatory, a very expensive add-on to an already very expensive machine and very expensive Visicalc ROM. It was very difficult to justify so much expense.

    2. I did cross-assemble in the HP-85. I don't remember the exact details, but I do remember it was quite convolute. After I while I got tired of it all, most specially when the HP-71B came out with its open IDS documentation and the Forth/Assembler ROM which made life considerably easier.

    I have to go. "See" you all in 3 weeks.

Best regards from V.

                                    
Re: HP75C/D vs. HP-71B
Message #9 Posted by Garth Wilson on 2 Aug 2007, 2:56 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by Valentin Albillo

Quote:
versus the utterly insufficient 71B display and small, calculator-like keyboard.
I touch-typed about 30wpm on the 71, versus about 45 on a full-size keyboard. Using a ton of LEX files that CHHU published from the Paris user group, I wrote a very feature-loaded text editor specifically for use with the tiny display, and I typed a lot on it until the 71 went out of production and I had visions of wearing out the keyboard and not being able to get any service for it. I wrote letters, took notes in meetings, etc.. The key (ie, secret) to making it do well with a small display is to think of the display as a keyhole through which you view your work, and make it so this keyhole can be moved around the work very nimbly.
Quote:
most specially when the HP-71B came out with its open IDS documentation and the Forth/Assembler ROM which made life considerably easier.
The 71 is where I learned Forth, although the Forth implementation in the Forth/Assembler ROM was a really bad one. Fortunately, since it is Forth, the user can improve it, and I was able to speed up many of the built-in words by a factor of up to 13 merely by re-writing them in Forth, not even assembly. (I never did learn the assembly language.)
                                          
Re: HP75C/D vs. HP-71B
Message #10 Posted by Egan Ford on 2 Aug 2007, 10:14 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by Garth Wilson

Quote:
I wrote a very feature-loaded text editor specifically for use with the tiny display...
I need a good editor for the 71B, specifically for FORTH programming. What do you recommend. I have a LIF disk of LEX files with no descriptions or documentation.

Thanks.

                                                
Re: HP75C/D vs. HP-71B
Message #11 Posted by Garth Wilson on 3 Aug 2007, 6:55 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by Egan Ford

I sent you a PM


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