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HP Forum Archive 16

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HP-12C Enhanced
Message #1 Posted by Antonio Maschio (Italy) on 30 June 2006, 12:10 p.m.

Ah, if only HP could make up its mind and produce such a 12CE (enhanced)!

It would be a top seller! Do you agree?

And believe, since the FIX command frees 9 keys, more could be added (PI, hyp, nCr, nPr, some more tests, or other).

;-) --> It's only a mere hope. I'm sure such model will NEVER be issued by HP!

-- Antonio

[Image taken from MoHPC site and elaborated. If this is illegal, tell me]

Edited: 1 July 2006, 8:13 a.m. after one or more responses were posted

      
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #2 Posted by Gene Wright on 30 June 2006, 1:31 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Antonio Maschio (Italy)

Yep, about the time the 12c platinum was announced two years ago, quite a bit of discussion came up about updating the 12c / 12cp.

If you search the archives you should find it.

Gene

            
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #3 Posted by Katie Wasserman on 1 July 2006, 1:27 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Gene Wright

I've got a very modest request to improve the functionality of the 12CP ... In the next release it would be nice to have the backspace key ([g][-]) function as a 'delete' operation in program mode and make instruction 'insert' the standard entry mode. In the current model the backspace as well as the undo functions are programmable, I can't think of any reason at all that you'd ever want to use them as such.

                  
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #4 Posted by Gene Wright on 1 July 2006, 2:36 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Katie Wasserman

Yes, that would be nice. Sigh.

      
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #5 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 30 June 2006, 5:59 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Antonio Maschio (Italy)

Ciao Antonio!

A me sembra che gli ingegneri non possano vivere senza delle funzioni trigonometrici. Se Lei ha un'HP-12C Platinum e ne ha bisogno, dovrebbe guardare questo:

It appears to me engineers just can't live without trigs. If you have an HP-12C Platinum and you need them, you should take a look at:

Trigonometric Functions on the HP-12C Platinum

Speriamo che HP accetti il Suo suggerimento :-)

Let us hope HP accepts your suggestion :-)

Gerson.

            
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #6 Posted by Antonio Maschio (Italy) on 1 July 2006, 4:44 a.m.,
in response to message #5 by Gerson W. Barbosa

No, I have a simpler Kinpo HP-12C. For my model, the Valentin Albillo strategy is what I can achieve. See the post immediately before.

Ciao.

-- Antonio

Edited: 1 July 2006, 8:12 a.m.

      
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #7 Posted by Eddie Shore on 1 July 2006, 8:01 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Antonio Maschio (Italy)

Add to that, a pi key, hyp function, gamma; along with the backspace function.

            
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #8 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 1 July 2006, 11:43 p.m.,
in response to message #7 by Eddie Shore

And the backspace where it should be, not as a shifted function far away from the prefix keys as they did on the Platinum.

This is not the best layout though. Six positions still remaining...

                  
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #9 Posted by Antonio Maschio (Italy) on 3 July 2006, 2:30 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by Gerson W. Barbosa

Good example, better than mine.

Just for fun:

add HYP and HYP-1 (HYP f-6, HYP-1 g-6, moving xw to f-1)
add nCr and nPr (f-2 and f-3)

there remain two free slots (f-STO and f-RCL), maybe for two more tests or a couple of programs: after all, solving may be needed also by financial people (see the 17BII+), and matrices could help in solving linear equations systems (2x2 or 3x3 could suffice, with the right memory amount - in this game, we may assume freely than such an enhancement brings also more memory - see the HP-33S)...

Ideally, I vote for:
SOLVE on f-STO
TEST on f-RCL (bearing a HP-15C test suite)

What do you prefer for the two free slots?

Come on, let's just give some hints to HP!

-- Antonio

Edited: 3 July 2006, 3:38 a.m.

                        
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #10 Posted by MJBarry on 3 July 2006, 11:58 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by Antonio Maschio (Italy)

They should call it the 12E - "E" for engineering. I would by one.

                              
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #11 Posted by Antonio Maschio (Italy) on 3 July 2006, 12:03 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by MJBarry

If you meant "buy one": me too! Maybe two!

-- Antonio

                        
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #12 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 3 July 2006, 10:31 p.m.,
in response to message #9 by Antonio Maschio (Italy)

Since you've suggested the solver why not include the integrator as well?

The tests would be nice. Also the programming paradigm should be changed (GSB, RTN, LBL and better editing). However this might make extant software not backward compatible with our improved 12C.

I'd buy two of these. So far there is a market for five units :-)

                  
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #13 Posted by Bruce Horrocks on 3 July 2006, 5:34 p.m.,
in response to message #8 by Gerson W. Barbosa

Nice layout. :-)

And since we're adding features, willy-nilly, why not put in a big lump of memory and have 10 virtual 12Cs in one case? Each could be completely independent of the others, accessed by pressing ON-0, ON-1, ON-2 etc. This would at least allow you to work on an improved version of a program without first having to delete the previous one or carry two calcs about. :-)

                        
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #14 Posted by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr. on 3 July 2006, 11:01 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by Bruce Horrocks

The Durabrand Graphing Scientific Calculator available for just under twenty dollars at Wal-Mart essentially provides what you want by designating ten independent program areas each of which can use as much of the entire memory as the user sees fit. The machine offers only ten labels but the same label can be used in as many different program areas as the user sees fit. If the user needs more then ten labels in his program he can concatenate program areas with subroutine calls. That is essentially the same methodology used in the 1985 vintage Casio fx-7000G, the world's first graphing calculator. Wouldn't it have been nice if the hp 33s had provided something like that? Unfortunately, the Durabrand offers a very limited memory.

                        
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #15 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 3 July 2006, 11:04 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by Bruce Horrocks

Nice idea! This should be useful in the HP-33S. At least all those 32K RAM would not be wasted...

Would you buy the 12C above? It's more feasible than a newer 15C :-)

                              
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #16 Posted by Bruce Horrocks on 4 July 2006, 11:21 a.m.,
in response to message #15 by Gerson W. Barbosa

Quote:
Would you buy the 12C above? It's more feasible than a newer 15C :-)
I would, even though I don't need it. (I already use a 12C for my day-to-day calculator anyway and I can't remember when I last needed trigs in real life so a 12CX doesn't add much for me.) Katie's suggestion for program editing to be in insert mode and have CLx delete the current instruction would be a godsend though and that would be enough to make me buy one.
                                    
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #17 Posted by Bruce Horrocks on 4 July 2006, 11:24 a.m.,
in response to message #16 by Bruce Horrocks

P.S. I forgot to add that BEG and END is a toggle and so could be on a single key labelled BEG/END which would give you another spare to be put to some nefarious purpose. :-)

                                          
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #18 Posted by Gene Wright on 4 July 2006, 11:56 a.m.,
in response to message #17 by Bruce Horrocks

Hi Bruce. But that wouldn't allow BEG or END to be in a program. A toggle would work fine for manual mode, but programmatically it wouldn't work.

any chance you're coming over for HHC2006?

                                                
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #19 Posted by Bruce Horrocks on 5 July 2006, 6:23 a.m.,
in response to message #18 by Gene Wright

Correct unless the mode were to be reset to END (say) every time a program was run.

A better solution, at the cost of program compatibility with current models, would be to have a MODE key followed by a single numeric digit which allowed BEG/END, M.DY/D.MY, DEG/RAD and (shock, horror) RPN/ALG to be set.

So MODE-0 sets BEG; MODE-1 sets END etc. through to MODE-7 for ALG. These codes could be printed on the reverse as an aide memoire. If each mode had its own annunciator then the current state of the machine would be obvious and the aide memoire would only be needed when changing mode.

This would then free up several keys.

                                                      
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #20 Posted by htom on 5 July 2006, 11:44 a.m.,
in response to message #19 by Bruce Horrocks

There are some other modes that would be nice; radix separation ./, ; calendar Y.MD; and you could reclaim three key label slots if Fix Sci Eng were moved into Mode.

                                          
Re: HP-12C Enhanced
Message #21 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 5 July 2006, 11:53 a.m.,
in response to message #17 by Bruce Horrocks

Also there's no need for both HYP and HYP-1: instead of, say, 5 g HYP-1 SIN this could be done la 32S - 5 f HYP f SIN -1. One more keystroke, but who cares?


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