HP Forum Archive 16

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33S strange behavior.. Message #1 Posted by James L on 30 Jan 2007, 2:49 a.m. Hello. I am a college student, and I am studying physics. I am also a proud owner of 32sII and 11C, and previous owner of 15c. :) Anyway, I was doing some calculations with my 33S, which I got because I was too afraid to carry my 32sII or 11C, and found something strange. Initially, my 33S was set in RAD mode, and the annunciator RAD was on. However, after doing one of self test(?) by pressing ON and 1/x, I realized the RAD annunciator was turned off though the mode was still in RAD. I found this out because I kept getting an answer wrong (the calculation was to be done in DEGREE mode), and since RAD annunciator was off, I thought it was in DEG mode. Is this normal behavior after performing one of the self-test? Regards, James

Re: 33S strange behavior.. Message #2 Posted by Ivan Nejgebauer on 30 Jan 2007, 5:46 a.m., in response to message #1 by James L Quote: Initially, my 33S was set in RAD mode, and the annunciator RAD was on. However, after doing one of self test(?) by pressing ON and 1/x, I realized the RAD annunciator was turned off though the mode was still in RAD. It's a very old bug, first reported in this thread, I think. There was at least one 33s ROM revision after the calculator's introduction, which quashed a number of (arguably more serious) bugs, but apparently not this one. i.

Re: 33S strange behavior.. Message #3 Posted by James L on 30 Jan 2007, 10:15 a.m., in response to message #2 by Ivan Nejgebauer Quote: It's a very old bug, However, mine's serial number starts with CNA 612---, and I just got it a few weeks ago. If it had been fixed, shouldn't mine be clear then? I am wondering if I should start carrying 32sii or 11c again.. :/

Re: 33S strange behavior.. Message #4 Posted by Les Wright on 30 Jan 2007, 11:30 a.m., in response to message #3 by James L I really liked my 33S when I first got it, despite the criticism of its very odd and very busy keyboard. But there have been recent reminders that even in subsequent ROM revisions the machine remains unacceptably buggy. For example, in DEG mode 89.999 TAN returns a result wrong in the last few digits. It is one thing for the venerable HP45 to get it wrong, but unacceptable for a scientific calc in the 21st century. My faith in the 33s has subsequently been tainted and I must say I don't use it much now. I don't own a 32sii but I have a 42s and 11C, each of which are not in pristine cosmetic condition so I am not afraid to use them in real life. I carry the 11C with me. On the other hand, my 15C is in near perfect condition and I am afraid to even look at it funny! Lately I only take it out of the case to admire it. A waste, I know.... Les

Re: 33S strange behavior.. Message #5 Posted by Gene on 30 Jan 2007, 11:44 a.m., in response to message #4 by Les Wright Perhaps you're right, Les. Certainly, HP should fix things like that. However, in all practical situations, that's a very small "bug". Especially, since you're aware of the bug, in a manual calculation, you can see you're about to hit the COS bug. In a program, you could (if you really felt you needed to) program around it. Maybe it's just me. I don't imagine people are taking cosines of angles that are nearly 90 degrees often enough where five digit precision is not enough. Again, I wish HP had fixed this bug, but complex machines are often tough to have bug free. And, given that today HP has only a handful of people even in their calculator division compared to hundreds at earlier times (aka 15c heyday), it seems they do pretty good to me. Just depends on what you mean by "unacceptably buggy". Are you using any version of Windows? Why? It has bugs that can crash the machine and give loss of data. :-) You mention that you carry the 11c with you (a favorite of mine). But it has at least one bug in it too, depending on the date of the unit. From [url]http://www.finseth.com/hpdata/hp11c.html[/url] "HP did acknowlege a bug in the 11C, but never released a ROM version which corrected this (I don't know why this popped into my brain last nite after lying dormant for several years). If you are entering a number with a decimal point, and then use the back-arrow key to erase any (and all) digits to the right of the decimal point AND erase the decimal point, the magnitude of the integer portion of the number will be incremented by 1 when the ENTER key is pressed. For example, 1 1 . <- ENTER should put 11 in the X-register, but 12 is entered instead. Another example, 2 . 3 4 CHS <- <- <- ENTER will put -3 in the X-register instead of -2. I'm not sure if this also occurs when a function key, such as +, is pressed rather than ENTER, or if this occurs on any other Voyager-series models. Again, depends on what we mean by "unacceptable". I know what Wayne consider's unacceptable. :-) Gene

Re: 33S strange behavior.. Message #6 Posted by Les Wright on 30 Jan 2007, 11:56 a.m., in response to message #5 by Gene I have a 1989 Brazil made 11C. I don't have that bug. Les

Re: 33S strange behavior.. Message #7 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 30 Jan 2007, 4:59 p.m., in response to message #6 by Les Wright Mine has serial no 2650A... It behaves correctly. No bug found!

Re: 33S strange behavior.. Message #8 Posted by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr. on 30 Jan 2007, 5:09 p.m., in response to message #6 by Les Wright "Variations and Specials" in the "Collecting" section of the Museum states: "Early HP-11Cs had a bug in which if you entered a number in the form 0.0xxx, backspaced over all the digits and then pressed ENTER, 1.00 was entered rather than 0.00. HP allowed users of buggy calculators to swap for fixed units." I have three HP-11C's in my collection. I checked them for the bug two years ago. S/N 2217A03623 has the bug. S/N's 2812A06055 and 2812A06515 do not. All three were made in the USA. Two are in pristine condition. The third has a small dent to the left of the display window.

Re: 33S strange behavior.. Message #9 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 30 Jan 2007, 6:35 p.m., in response to message #3 by James L Same on both CNA411 and CNA601. Although I think this bug should have been addressed by now, this is not a reason for stopping using the 33S. Anyone studying Physics may appreciate the Physics Constants table. Back in 1984, I would have... Regards, Gerson.

Re: 33S strange behavior.. Message #10 Posted by Paul Brogger on 30 Jan 2007, 6:44 p.m., in response to message #3 by James L I gotta say, the most attractive thing about the 33s is the combination of the 32S/SII programming model with more-than-adequate storage. From my old-school, procedural programming, BASIC-PL/I point of view, the simplicity, ease of use and well-nigh limitless memory of the 33S fills the bill perfectly. It has plenty of limitations and yes, even some bugs. But it's the only calculator I've been using of late.

Re: 33S strange behavior.. Message #11 Posted by bill platt on 30 Jan 2007, 5:22 p.m., in response to message #1 by James L Hi James, While it is a source of consternation to discover that this 33S has bugs, the great thing is that every one of them that has been found has been reported here first, and so you are in the right place to learn about it! Myself and many others have reported both the bugs as well as undocumented features and variations right here in this forum. I don't thing we've made an article (rather than forum entry) listening them all yet. The archives are full of useful stuff. Basically you should check for the H.ms HR bug, the Polar-Rectangular bug, the permutations overflow non-indication bug, and you should become thoroughly acquainted with the differences in the equation editor and the solver relative to the 32sii. In fact the equation editor is superior in this new machine, as it has eliminated the unary minus confusion of the 32sii. A great article to read is here: http://www.hpcc.org/datafile/V23N3/33S.pdf Best regards, Bill Edited: 30 Jan 2007, 5:25 p.m.

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