HP Forum Archive 16

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Always in my pocket Message #1 Posted by Giancarlo (Italy) on 13 Nov 2006, 12:56 p.m. Dear forum-folks, help me with my dilemma...... I have (eventually!) the opportunity to use all these three calcs: HP15C, HP42S, HP50G. In my opinion, they’re three shining gems - at least, a couple of them ;) – but, not being able to carry three calc always with me and considering: - ease and speed of programming - memory - shape factor (ergonomy, weight, dimensions) which one of the three diamonds would you advise as a “always-in-my-pocket” calc? I’m not calling for the “best-ever HP calc” award – just need your pragmatic thoughts. Thank you in advance for your feedbacks. Best regards. Giancarlo

Re: Always in my pocket Message #2 Posted by Namir on 13 Nov 2006, 2:05 p.m., in response to message #1 by Giancarlo (Italy) I recommend the HP-42S. You program it in RPN. It can handle matrices and has the SOLVE and INTEGRATE functions, Also it supports alphanumerics. As far as size, it is small enough to fit in a pocket. Namir

Re: Always in my pocket Message #3 Posted by Bram on 13 Nov 2006, 2:58 p.m., in response to message #2 by Namir And the 42S has alpha display. Big advantage for the Quote: - ease and speed of programming good luck with this difficult choice ;-)

Re: Always in my pocket: HP 42S Message #4 Posted by Marcus von Cube, Germany on 13 Nov 2006, 6:35 p.m., in response to message #3 by Bram Don't forget the two line stack display! Marcus

Re: Always in my pocket: HP 42S Message #5 Posted by db (Martinez, California) on 13 Nov 2006, 7:08 p.m., in response to message #4 by Marcus von Cube, Germany There is a 42 emulator that runs on the 48. Is there one for the 50, or will it just work as is? If so you would have the best of all worlds; the 42 does everything the 15 will and the 50 won't wish you happy birthday by loosing all your programs and data. I don't have a 50g but i played with one at hhc 2006 and was impressed as hell by it (might just be that "Precision" surveying program on it that impressed me though).

Re: Always in my pocket: HP 42S Message #6 Posted by Gene on 13 Nov 2006, 8:12 p.m., in response to message #5 by db (Martinez, California) Hi again, HHC2006 pal! Be careful saying the 42s will do everything the 15c can. The 15c has better matrix and complex number support built-in. I'm just wondering why the 12cp isn't on the list? :-)

Re: Always in my pocket: HP 42S Message #7 Posted by Jeff O. on 14 Nov 2006, 11:57 a.m., in response to message #5 by db (Martinez, California) Quote: There is a 42 emulator that runs on the 48. Is there one for the 50, or will it just work as is? If you are referring to Hrastprogrammer's HP-42X, I believe the answer is sort-of. Hrast developed several versions of the program for the HP-48GX/SX and HP-49G calculators. He then developed a version for the 49g+, which would presumably also work on the 50g, but, he recommends that you use ROM revision 1.23! If I recall correctly, this was the original ROM that shipped with the 49g+ when it was first released. That ROM was almost immediately superseded by ROM 1.24 to solve some major problems (which I don't recall). It might be difficult to even find that ROM to install it on your 50g, then you would be stuck with its problems when using the 50g as a 50g. Unfortunately, my brilliant idea of converting Thomas Okken’s Free42 to run on the 50g does not seem to be feasible (at least by me.)

Re: Always in my pocket Message #8 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 13 Nov 2006, 9:12 p.m., in response to message #2 by Namir Quote: You program it in RPN. It can handle matrices and has the SOLVE and INTEGRATE functions, Also it supports alphanumerics. As far as size, it is small enough to fit in a pocket. The same applies to the HP-15C, except alphanumerics support. Of course the HP-42S allows for larger matrices and its simultaneous equations solver is more intuitive, but who needs do this on the HP-15C when an HP-50G is also available? I'd vote for the HP-50G/HP-15C set, actually my own choice. Gerson. Edited: 15 Nov 2006, 1:11 p.m.

Re: Always in my pocket Message #9 Posted by Les Wright on 13 Nov 2006, 6:58 p.m., in response to message #1 by Giancarlo (Italy) Definitely the 42S. Vis-a-vis the 15C, which is admittedly much more attractive and has bolder and crisper display, the 42S packs more functions in easy to navigate menus, has 13 times as much memory, and has the alphanumeric advantage which makes programs easier to write and to read. (I love my 15C, but I just can't get used to the numeric key coding in programs. I far prefer to see "06 SIN" as opposed to "006 23" as a program line.) The 42S allows storage to variables and not just registers, which for me is an organizational and mnemonic advantage. Finally, the built-in integrater and solver in the 42S are simply a lot faster. I have been recently playing around with some routine integrals, and I am amazed how much faster the 42S is compared with the 15C or the 41CX with Advantage Pac. With apologies to Senor Albillo, I really have no idea why one would routinely use the 15C to calculate an integral these days. (As for those who would have HP resurrect the 15C, the new version would have to be faster and have more memory! But that is OT....) Unfortuately the 42S has a less crisp display and the brown/orange colour scheme is just not nearly as pleasing to the eye. Les

Re: Always in my pocket Message #10 Posted by Bruce Bergman on 14 Nov 2006, 12:56 a.m., in response to message #1 by Giancarlo (Italy) I love the shape and clarity of the 15c. I love the sheer underrated power and bang-for-the-buck of the 42s. Of the 50g, you just can't complain about the ease of programming and power of the calculator. All three are awesome in their own way, and it'd be hard to combine them to make one perfect calc. That all being said, if I had to pocket one around every day, it would have to be the 42s. I'd *rather* pocket the 50g, but it's too big for daily carry. Left with the two other choices, and given that the 42s roundly stomps the 15c in about 99.5% of the areas, it'd have to be the 42s. If I could slam the guts of a 50g into a 42s-sized package (or close to it, at least), it'd be the 50g in my pocket. Ah, to dream... :-) thanks, bruce

Re: Always in my pocket Message #11 Posted by Chuck on 14 Nov 2006, 2:07 a.m., in response to message #10 by Bruce Bergman Quote: If I could slam the guts of a 50g into a 42s-sized package (or close to it, at least), it'd be the 50g in my pocket. Here, here. The 42S has been "my" favorite calculator for the past 10 years. However, last week I had the purchased a 50g, and wholy-schmoley, what a power house. The ease of calculating and using Lagrange multipliers, gradients and directional derivative calculations, mulitple integrals, graphing simultaneous 3D graphs to investigate their intersection, wow!!! The 50g is in my bag to stay. I hate to say that the 42S has been retired to the dresser drawer, but it'll also be easier to replace the 50g rather than the 42S if anything bad should happen to either.

Re: Always in my pocket Message #12 Posted by GE on 14 Nov 2006, 4:30 a.m., in response to message #11 by Chuck As a collector, you should factor in the danger of harming your machine, so from this point of view the machine to put in your pocket is the 50G, the less valuable of all, even if it is hardly usable ;-) Apart from that, if you have simple needs the best would be the 15C which has that "wow" factor we definitely like. Of course my favorite is the 42S, but even with spares at home that machine has too much value (I'm not speaking of $$ here) for being possibly taken away by others lacking proper respect and culture.

Re: Always in my pocket Message #13 Posted by Bruce Bergman on 14 Nov 2006, 11:11 a.m., in response to message #12 by GE Good point, GE... Value. Both the 15c and 42s cost far more to replace than the 50g. If I was worried about theft, etc., I'd probably carry something different like the 33s. My 42s sits at work and I do fret from time to time that someone who knows HP calcs is going to notice it and take it away. :-( Per my comment on the 33s, you know, I've actually come to like that little demon. When I originally purchased it, I couldn't stand the keyboard layout (not the chevron shape, but the small enter at the bottom), and the decimal point reduced the calc to almost worthlessness. I left it in our "junk drawer" at home, for quick calculations, without concern for damage, loss, etc. I recently bought one of the "fixed" models and have to say it has made a huge difference. The display is 100x more readable (especially the comma, which helps a lot) and I feel like I can punch in numbers without having to verify each and every one. I don't know why, but the keyboard seems quicker (400 KEYTIME->??) and more solid. As a whole, I am much happier with the 33s now, and have even taken it with me on occasion to a class or work. But, I'm slightly off-topic here. :-) thanks, bruce

Re: Always in my pocket -- 33s Message #14 Posted by Paul Brogger on 14 Nov 2006, 1:56 p.m., in response to message #13 by Bruce Bergman Well, not quite in my pocket, but generally within reach. (There's one in the glove compartment.)

Re: Always in my pocket Message #15 Posted by e.young on 14 Nov 2006, 5:59 p.m., in response to message #11 by Chuck I've never used the 50g before, and consider myself a partisan of the 42s. I find it interesting that the 50g is being highly spoken of. Is it true, the 50g is worth having?

Re: Always in my pocket Message #16 Posted by Chuck on 14 Nov 2006, 9:14 p.m., in response to message #15 by e.young "Is it worth having?" Hmmm. Depends on what I'm teaching or doing, I suppose. In my calculator collection box I have all the calculators I've used in the last 35 years, hp and non-hp. So far it holds the 11C, 12C, 15C, 16C, 20S, 21S, 22S, 28C, 28S, 48SX, 49G, 49Gplus, 32SII, 42S, 200LX (with Derive) and finally the 50g (I sound like an HP junkie). Of course, at work (teaching) I've had to use the TI 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 89, and 92. Top down, I'd have to say my favorites are: 1) 42S 2) 200LX (not a calculator, but it is with Derive installed.) 3) 48SX 4) 32SII 5) 15C 6) 11C (my first, and probably the last I'd get rid of) For the last 5 years I've carried around the 200lx and 42S. However, this last week these two have been usurped by the 50g. I'm not really sure how long it'll last, but I think it's certainly "worth" it. Also, it's the only calculator on the planet (that I know of) that can graph simultaneous surfaces and rotate them (fast) to get a better visual of their intersections; huge to 4th quarter calculus students, and myself. The 50g may easily move to the top of the list if it's still the only one in my bag this time next year. (I still go back to the 42S for the "simplicity" of it once in awhile, though.) But as has been mentioned, the "cost" or replacement factor of the 50g makes it "worth it" to me. Happy computing, CHUCK

Re: Always in my pocket Message #17 Posted by Antonio Maschio (Italy) on 14 Nov 2006, 2:32 a.m., in response to message #1 by Giancarlo (Italy) I vote for the HP-15C. I don't need alphanumeric capabilities. Only nitty gritty numbers... -- Antonio

Re: Always in my pocket Message #18 Posted by Matt Kernal (US) on 14 Nov 2006, 2:12 p.m., in response to message #17 by Antonio Maschio (Italy) Gotta go with the 15C. It's the only one that actually fits "inside" my shirt pocket without sticking out. My 11C has been with me for eight+ years, and no one knows I have a calculator on me unless a quick calculation is necessary. Then I just.. well, Ted said it best: "When in doubt I whip it out.. Got me a rock n' roll band. It's a free-for-all!" (Teg Nugent) Matt :-)

Re: Always in my pocket Message #19 Posted by Geir Isene on 14 Nov 2006, 4:10 a.m., in response to message #1 by Giancarlo (Italy) Of the ones you list: 42S Reason: Size, RPN, functionality, alphanumerics, ease of programming (not being RPL).

Re: Always in my pocket Message #20 Posted by Maximilian Hohmann on 14 Nov 2006, 8:28 a.m., in response to message #1 by Giancarlo (Italy) Hi Giancarlo! Quote: ... just need your pragmatic thoughts. For me, the "best" choice in a pure pragamatical sense would be the HP50G. You can treat it like any other daily-use item: If you lose it or break it or get it stolen, you can easily get a new one within hours and for much less money, than would be needed to replace any of the other two. And whatever the enthusiasts say: From the three, it is by far, by very, very far! the most powerful calculator. (I don't know what your calculation needs are and if all those functions are really necessary for you?) A bit large for the shirt pocket maybe, but then, the 42 is also quite big. From the enthusiast's point of view, it can only be the 15C though: The oldest and most original calculator of the three and still with more functions, than most people will ever need. Personally, I have long parted with the idea of having an "always in my pocket"-calculator and instead try to use as many calculators of my collection as possible over the year: Ideally, a diffrent one evey day! So yesterday, I carried an HP-41CV with me, today it is the Ti-92 (far superior to most HP calculators, I'm afraid, but very big) and tomorrow it's gonna be the HP-19C, the batteries are already in the charger :-) Saluti, Max

Re: Always in my pocket Message #21 Posted by Dia C. Tran on 14 Nov 2006, 11:10 a.m., in response to message #20 by Maximilian Hohmann Although the 50G is big but If I were you it would be the one. The reason simply because it should be able to handle all the problems that the other 2 can and it's replacable.

Re: Always in my pocket Message #22 Posted by Giancarlo (Italy) on 14 Nov 2006, 12:16 p.m., in response to message #20 by Maximilian Hohmann Hi Maximilian. I had thought to your suggested solution, indeed, but..... For me it's not so easy to have a different calc at hand every day and still being able to "switch" my brain to the different mappings of the keys over the keyboard or, for example, to the little tricks and most useful function I'm used to use in everyday calculations. Maybe it's a problem of brain (mine, of course ;), but some (not always so) slight differences in keyboard layout get me spend more time to look for them than to perform the calculation - that's why I'd reluctantly choose to have just one tool "always in my pocket". Anyway, your feedbacks are always a source of wisdom!! Cheers. Giancarlo

Re: Always in my pocket Message #23 Posted by Maximilian Hohmann on 15 Nov 2006, 5:15 a.m., in response to message #22 by Giancarlo (Italy) Hi Giancarlo, Quote: Maybe it's a problem of brain (mine, of course ;), but some (not always so) slight differences in keyboard layout get me spend more time to look for them than to perform the calculation - that's why I'd reluctantly choose to have just one tool "always in my pocket". I think, that we all suffer from this "brain problem" of yours :-) If you need to work quickly and efficiently with your calculator, then there is really no other choice but to stick to a single one... On the other hand, in the year 2006, working "quickly and efficiently" and "using a pocket calculator" do not go too well together - at least with my kind of work (engineering/software development and aviation) so I really only take my calculators with me as toys - and to impress my colleagues ;-) . And then it dosent matter so much, if I am not typing-in my numbers as quickly as possible. Greetings, Max

Re: Always in my pocket Message #24 Posted by Antonio Maschio (Italy) on 15 Nov 2006, 11:18 a.m., in response to message #1 by Giancarlo (Italy) Giancarlo, now, tell us what's your choice. -- Antonio Edited: 15 Nov 2006, 11:18 a.m.

Re: Always in my pocket Message #25 Posted by Giancarlo (Italy) on 16 Nov 2006, 2:25 a.m., in response to message #24 by Antonio Maschio (Italy) Antonio and all, I've read through all of your interesting and instructive feedbacks so far. After some sleepless nights ;) I've made my mind to go with the 42S. I played with it in the past few days and - wow! - I never felt so immediately comfortable with the keyboard layout and balance and the ease of programming (please consider that I'm not a programming geek at all...). I was able to input 2 or 3 very simple progs I use in everyday work just in few seconds, assigned them to the CUSTOM menů and voilŕ! Of course, I'll have the 15C and the 50G right in the drawer for any need. Moreover, my colleagues aren't much aware about the value of the 42S so that it could be stolen (at least I hope so....) Think that just yesterday one of those colleagues looked at the 42S took it in his hand, pushed some keys, then exclaimed: <<Cute calc, but see mine!>> and forked over an ordinary four-banger (don't even remember its brand, if any) - so no much of a threat for my 42S, isn't it? ;)) Thank to all of you for the interesting developments of the thread. Cheers. Giancarlo.

Re: Always in my pocket Message #26 Posted by Les Wright on 15 Nov 2006, 6:41 p.m., in response to message #1 by Giancarlo (Italy) My latest acquistion was a 15C in near mint condition--I mean near mint too, not cobubba pseudo-mint. I have been using it regularly and in the process have nicked the usually invisible protective coating on the display plastic. So there is a little blemish that I would sooner not make worse with handling, etc, but the calc looks beautiful and works fine. But I am cherishing it too much now to make it a "shirt pocket calculator"--I prefer to play with it carefully at home under more controlled conditions. My 42S was nice and worked in when I got it (it was my first eBay calc purchase, and since it came with the original box I really got soaked, I am afraid, even though the calc itself was well used). I am a little less concerned about cosmetics here, but I must admit the display quality has always left me a little cold, notwithstanding the superb power of the calculator otherwise. So these days my main shirt pocket "calculator" has been my large screen Palm TX running P41CX, Thomas Okken's Free42, and Robert Hildinger's Power48. The first and third of these are due for an update by now and have their bugs, but they look really nice on the 320x480 display and work well enough for my purposes. Thomas's Free42 is undergoing continual improvement and is by far my favorite--it is a completely faithful implementation of the 42S, only better with up to 25 digit internal precision, a broader numeric range, much more available memory (limited only by the available RAM of the handheld), and great speed since the computational "clock" is the handheld CPU itself. A complicated integral that takes about a minute on a 42S and a few minutes on 15C takes a second or two at most in Free42 on my handheld. Emulators and PDAs are not for those who prefer the nice satisfying "give" of an HP keypad over a stylus, but I can say for daily use for me my PDA with the above emulators/simulators is my most satisfactory shirtpocket solution. Les

Re: Always in my pocket Message #27 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 15 Nov 2006, 7:27 p.m., in response to message #26 by Les Wright Quote: (it was my first eBay calc purchase, and since it came with the original box I really got soaked, I am afraid, even though the calc itself was well used). Sometimes it's possible to get one in the original box for a reasonable price, like this one I shipped to Italy: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230018266444&indexURL=1&photoDisplayType=2#ebayphotohosting I really appreciated the buyer's feed back: molto contento. grazie !!!!! (very pleased. thanks!) :-) The one I kept is not in so good shape but it has the same display of the 32SII, which I like better. Gerson.

Lover's Lament Message #28 Posted by Trent Moseley on 16 Nov 2006, 12:11 a.m., in response to message #27 by Gerson W. Barbosa I love my 15C and 42S. But sometimes with all its shortcomings, I still get a thrill holding the old HP-67 (which is in good working order), see those beautiful red LEDs, run through a card and know its ready to go. tm

Re: Lover's Lament Message #29 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 16 Nov 2006, 5:56 p.m., in response to message #28 by Trent Moseley Before my first HP-15C (Dec-83), for a while I had two LED display calculators, a TI-51-III and a TI-59, but not long enough so I could develop a crush on them. I really like my LED display calculators, one HP-35, two HP-33C and one HP-34C, especially the latter. Gerson.

Re: Lover's Lament Message #30 Posted by Hal Bitton on 16 Nov 2006, 6:19 p.m., in response to message #28 by Trent Moseley I agree. In many respects, the 67 is still a very viable system. The ability to label the soft keys with the program cards is very handy. Most of all I like the display of the 67...you get all 10 digits of the mantissa plus the exponent, coupled with the decimal point having it's own distinct space...all in laser sharp LED!! Fantastic!

Re: Lover's Lament Message #31 Posted by Les Wright on 16 Nov 2006, 7:19 p.m., in response to message #28 by Trent Moseley If I could find a working 65 or 67 out there not put on the auction block by Cobubba, I would pay a goodly sum, I think. They sound like wonderful machines. But it would have to be a working unit--it would break my heart to have to keep it double Baggied like a diligent collector and gingerly take it out only twice a year to see if it still turns on.... Les

Re: Lover's Lament Message #32 Posted by John on 20 Nov 2006, 9:34 a.m., in response to message #31 by Les Wright In my opinion, don't we all have one, the 42S is the greatest calculator ever created. I had to replace my broken one with one that I purchased on EBay... ouch! Anyway, there is an emulator that works very well on the pocketPC. It is free and can be found by searching for free42, the program name. Also, other PPC programs are available for purchase from lygea.com. This is a great way to carry several of the greatest-ever calculators, and some games, in a more compact space.

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