HP Forum Archive 15

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HP Advantage Module... Message #1 Posted by Andreas Terzis on 10 Mar 2006, 4:29 p.m. Hi there, Does the HP Advantage module include a Math module in it? Thanks, Andreas

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #2 Posted by Namir on 10 Mar 2006, 5:34 p.m., in response to message #1 by Andreas Terzis The Advantage module does not include the MATH module per se. It does offer other mathematical operations like SOLVE (coded using fast microcode), INTEGRATE, Matrix operations, and oher calculations. The Advantage module brought to the HP-41C/CV/CX features that appeared in the HP-15C which many felt were very importaant. Namir

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #3 Posted by Andreas Terzis on 10 Mar 2006, 8:34 p.m., in response to message #2 by Namir Thanks Namir, I thought so. But I bought an HP-41CX on eBay where the seller claimed that it would come with a Math pac module and an Advantage module and it didn't. When I challenged that, he said that 'The math module is already in the calculator. It's the HP-41 Advantage'. There are so many crooks out there.

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #4 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 10 Mar 2006, 8:19 p.m., in response to message #1 by Andreas Terzis Hello Andreas, If you want to hear about the contents of the Advantage Module, in the voice of Richard Nelson (PPC), take a look at this old posting: http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/archv015.cgi?read=84857#84857 If you have trouble understanting the recording, like I did, here is a transcription (some misunderstood words, many missing, sorry): ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12, 12, 12, 12! Richard Nelson -------------- number 12 ---- 1985 New Product News: Since PPC has preannounced Hewlett-Packard new HP-41 Advantage ROM, here are the details: All that users (?) are asked: not to contact HP regarding this product. HP cannot answer questions until formal announcement. The HP-41 Advantage ROM is a 12K collection of the most popular programs from the MATH and STAT ROMs, the HP-IL development ROM, the HP-15C, the HP-12C and CCD ROM. There are under 17 functions in X-ROM 22 and 24 with four headers: The first is /ADVCONV for Advantage Conversions with 12 functions like BIN, OCT and HEX in NVIEW. Plus only ---- logic like NOT, AND, OR, etc. The second header is /ADVMTRX for Advantage Matrix with 52 routines, all the three are M-CODE routines based on the CCD ROM. The third header is /ADVMATH with 47 routines including Solve and Integrate from the HP-15C. The fourth header is /ADVTVM for Advantage Time Value of Money with 6 user-called routines. These are TVM and PV, PMT, FV and . The bank-switched ______ of the ROM contains a 59 M-CODE routine. This ROM will be offered free to those who buy --- 41C, CV or CX or HP dealers. The Advantage ROM will otherwise sell for 49 dollars. In addition to provide a powerful mix of Finance, Math and Stat programs in a single core, the Advantage ROM offers exciting examples of programming for both User-code and M-code programmers. the Finance routines in user code and Solve and Integrate in M-code. The Advantage ROM 25 menus that greatly help the user to function group. Additional detail in bulletin. Remember that this is _____ information. So please don't bother HP until formal announcement. CHHU report. CHHU is . The primary project is the largest mailing undertaken in eleven years. All local member who can help should call me. Once this is completed the _________ will be printed. The next three weeks are critical. Until the next bulletin. I need your help. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Gerson.

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #5 Posted by Andreas Terzis on 10 Mar 2006, 9:30 p.m., in response to message #4 by Gerson W. Barbosa Thanks Gerson. Very enlightening.

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #6 Posted by Wayne Brown on 13 Mar 2006, 2:47 p.m., in response to message #4 by Gerson W. Barbosa I've made a few additions and corrections to Gerson's transcript. Here it is in its entirety: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12, 12, 12, 12! Richard Nelson with your CHUU Bulletin number 12, June 19th, 1985. New Product News: Since PPC has preannounced Hewlett-Packard's new HP-41 Advantage ROM, here are the details: All listeners are asked: not to contact HP regarding this product. HP cannot answer questions until formal announcement. The HP-41 Advantage ROM is a 12K collection of the most popular programs from the MATH and STAT ROMs, the HP-IL development ROM, the HP-15C, the HP-12C and the CCD ROM. There are 117 functions in X-ROMs 22 and 24 with four headers: The first is -ADV CONV for Advantage Conversions with 12 functions like BIN, OCT and HEX in NVIEW. Plus Booloean logic like NOT, AND, OR, etc. The second header is -ADV MTRX for Advantage Matrix with 52 routines; all the three are M-CODE routines based on the CCD ROM. The third header is -ADV MATH with 47 routines including: Solve and Integrate from the HP-15C. The fourth header is -ADV TVM for Advantage Time Value of Money with 6 user-called routines. These are TVM, N, PV, PMT, FV and *I. The bank-switched 4K part of the ROM contains the 59 M-CODE routines. This ROM will be offered free to those who buy an HP-41CV or CX from August 15th to November 15th and send in a promotional coupon obtained from HP or your HP dealer. The Advantage ROM will otherwise sell for 49 dollars. In addition to providing a powerful mix of Finance, Math and Stat programs in a single port, the Advantage ROM offers exciting examples of programming for both User-code and M-code programmers. Of special interest is the Finance routines in user code and Solve and Integrate in M-code. The Advantage ROM utilizes approximately 25 menus that greatly help the user through eight function groups. Additional detail in future bulletins. Remember that this is pre-release information. So please don't bother HP until formal announcement. CHHU report: CHHU is on financial hold. The primary project is the largest mailing undertaken in eleven years. All local members who can help should call me. Once this is complete the March "Chronicle" will be printed. The next three weeks are critical. Until the next bulletin: I need your help. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #7 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 10 Mar 2006, 8:39 p.m., in response to message #1 by Andreas Terzis Hi, Andreas: You may also want to download and have a look at my 9-page article Long Live the Advantage ROM! in PDF format, which reviews its most important features and includes a sample program utilizing to the fullest some of them. It will probably give you a fair idea of what it is, what it can do, and its programming style. Best regards from V.

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #8 Posted by Andreas Terzis on 10 Mar 2006, 9:53 p.m., in response to message #7 by Valentin Albillo Valentin, Thank you so much. Very nice work on the PDF documentation! I might have to return the machine with the Advantage module though. If I get Clonix would I be able to get the ROM downloaded to it? Also, I have another quick question: when I do an EMDIR on the CX, I only get 124 registers. Is that normal? Shouldn't I get 600? Thanks again, Andreas

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #9 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 10 Mar 2006, 11:21 p.m., in response to message #8 by Andreas Terzis Hi again, Andreas: Andreas posted: "I might have to return the machine with the Advantage module though." A real pity. "If I get Clonix would I be able to get the ROM downloaded to it?" I'm no expert in Clonix, there are much more knowledgeable people in this forum. I would think yes, except for the fact that Advantage is a 12 Kb ROM which does use bank switching, and I simply don't know if Clonix allows for this or not, though I'd guess yes. Let's the real experts talk. "Also, I have another quick question: when I do an EMDIR on the CX, I only get 124 registers. Is that normal? Shouldn't I get 600? Thanks again, Andreas" It's perfectly normal. To get 600 EMS registers you would need to plug in two EMS modules, each one of them adding 238 EMS registers to the 124 already built-in, for a total of 600. Best regards from V.

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #10 Posted by Andreas Terzis on 10 Mar 2006, 11:32 p.m., in response to message #9 by Valentin Albillo Valentin, Thanks again. Is it true that those are Extended Memory registers? In other words, the HP-41CX still has four times the memory a regular HP-41C has, right? Regards, Andreas

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #11 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 10 Mar 2006, 11:45 p.m., in response to message #10 by Andreas Terzis Hi, Andreas: Andreas posted: "Is it true that those are Extended Memory registers?" Yes. "In other words, the HP-41CX still has four times the memory a regular HP-41C has" Five times, not four: 320- versus 64-, where the "-" means part of the 320th register (64th register) isn't available to the user. Best regards from V.

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #12 Posted by Karl Schneider on 11 Mar 2006, 12:00 a.m., in response to message #8 by Andreas Terzis Andreas -- Getting an HP-41CX with Advantage Module is pretty good. You might consider keeping the unit, even with the absence of the Math Pac. Math Pac's were widely sold, being the most basic upgrade, and can routinely be obtained on eBay for < $20, complete. Even better is a combined Math/Stat Pac. The Advantage Pac has much of the the functionality from the Math Pac, but does lack a few items, including triangle solutions, Fourier analyses, and hyperbolics. The Math Pac contains 4 kB of code, all of it as RPN routines. The Advantage Pac contains 12 kB of code, much of it as sophisticated, faster-running microprocessor code. On X-memory: 124 registers of X-memory is built into the CX. Two 238-register X-Memory chips are required in order to achieve the maximum 600 registers. You might find this archived link helpful: A question from 2003 about PPC and Advantage ROM's -- KS

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #13 Posted by Andreas Terzis on 11 Mar 2006, 2:04 a.m., in response to message #12 by Karl Schneider Oh, wow. This is awsome. I loved it. Thanks Karl. Well, maybe I should learn how to use the 'Search the Museum' link. (!@%&*?) (Sorry Vassili... - I'm jokingly referring to the post that set JE off...)

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #14 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 11 Mar 2006, 11:12 a.m., in response to message #8 by Andreas Terzis Quote: I might have to return the machine with the Advantage module though. If you didn't like that 41CX, you should consider keeping the Advantage Module if you get it for a reasonable price. Although you can have the Advantage for free using Clonix, I think the power consumption would be somewhat high compared with the original ROM module. On the other hand, people who use Clonix and other peripherals a lot generally rely on rechargeable Ni-Cd cells, so power consumption would not be a problem. Regards, Gerson.

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #15 Posted by Andreas Terzis on 11 Mar 2006, 4:11 p.m., in response to message #14 by Gerson W. Barbosa Gerson, Thanks for the reply. Why do people still use Ni-Cds? Can we not use Ni-MH or Lithium cells? (Is there such a thing?) Regards, Andreas

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #16 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 11 Mar 2006, 6:59 p.m., in response to message #15 by Andreas Terzis Hello Andreas, You may use Ni-MH cells, but they have to be recharged outside the calculator, on a charger specifically designed for them. By what I know, lower capacity Ni-Cd cells are still used because they are compatible with old rechargers. The only lithium cells I know are those button-type 3V batteries. There's a lot a past threads about the subject, the easiest way to find them is doing a google search for, say, site:www.hpmuseum.org Ni-Cd batteries. Regards, Gerson

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #17 Posted by Andreas Terzis on 11 Mar 2006, 10:16 p.m., in response to message #16 by Gerson W. Barbosa Gerson, Thanks again for all your time and valuable info. Very much appreciated. Do you know how all this info shows up at Google almost immediately by the way? I alos assume it was one of Dave's decision to use whatever method to have all that info posted. Regards, Andreas

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #18 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 11 Mar 2006, 11:11 p.m., in response to message #17 by Andreas Terzis Google just keeps the whole Museum site (and zillions of others) indexed on a regular basis. I don't know how exactly they do this and I think they wouldn't tell us, or would they? :-) http://www.google.com/technology/pigeonrank.html Now, seriously, there's also a search tool in the Museum: Search/Personalize But I confess I don't remember how to use it. Regards, Gerson.

Avian Influenza... Message #19 Posted by Andreas Terzis on 12 Mar 2006, 6:19 a.m., in response to message #18 by Gerson W. Barbosa Being from Europe originally, and still keeping abreast all the news developments, I have been listening to tons of news stories lately about bird flu in different countries there. If the avian flu crosses the Atlantic (with the rate it exists in Europe), I worry that Google's results won't be as accurate any more. Maybe the scattered reports of avian flu lately in the U.S. might be the cause of their stock decline lately! (I really enjoyed the article...)

Re: HP Advantage Module... Message #20 Posted by Andreas Terzis on 12 Mar 2006, 6:23 a.m., in response to message #14 by Gerson W. Barbosa The battery contacts of the CX are corroded. If I get to keep the machine, is there any way to tell if the battery acid/base might have spread inside? Does anyone know if there is a fairly easy way to open the machine without breaking anything? If the machine works now but the liquid has spread inside, are there significant chances for the machine to die soon?

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