The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 15

 Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #1 Posted by MikeS on 7 Mar 2006, 11:48 a.m. Hi all, does anyone know if there are trig functions on any of the RPN business calculators. I've checked HP's website but I can't seem to find an answer. I'd like to get a 12C platinum but was wondering about trig. thanks, Mike

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #2 Posted by bill platt on 7 Mar 2006, 11:59 a.m.,in response to message #1 by MikeS Not ona any current models. The 19bii was the only modern business *RPN* models with trigonometric functions. The 27s and the 19b had trigonometry, but were not RPN.

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #3 Posted by Jeff O. on 7 Mar 2006, 12:50 p.m.,in response to message #1 by MikeS Check the Forum archives for past discussions of programs and routines to add trig functions to the 12C, 17Bii.

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #4 Posted by bill platt on 7 Mar 2006, 1:21 p.m.,in response to message #3 by Jeff O. The 12c trig is cute and clever but no substitute for having trig functions built-in. The 17bii trig is even more clever, but still no substitute, but it does work nicely inside the solver. Neither are particularly accurate--like 4 decimal places, which is ok for routine work but not for recursive stuff.

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #5 Posted by Gene on 7 Mar 2006, 5:53 p.m.,in response to message #4 by bill platt While I agree they are no substitute for having the functions built-in, Valentin's 12c trigonometry is accurate to 9-10 significant digits. It's much better than 4 digits. I checked the write-up here: Gene

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #6 Posted by bill platt on 8 Mar 2006, 8:37 a.m.,in response to message #5 by Gene Yes, that's true. Whenever Valentin sets his mind to something, it comes out right :-)

 Why, Thank You ! :-)Message #7 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 8 Mar 2006, 9:52 a.m.,in response to message #6 by bill platt ``` That's very kind of you Muy amable por su parte Vous êtes très amiable E’ molto amabile da parte sua ``` Please have a drink, my treat ! :-) Best regards from V.

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #8 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 8 Mar 2006, 11:00 a.m.,in response to message #5 by Gene I just wonder what Valentin would come up with if he had 400 programming steps at his disposal... But, I guess, if he were given a 12C Platinum he would twist his head and say "no, thanks!". :-) Gerson.

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #9 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 8 Mar 2006, 11:30 a.m.,in response to message #8 by Gerson W. Barbosa Hi, Gerson: Gerson posted: "I just wonder what Valentin would come up with if he had 400 programming steps at his disposal... But, I guess, if he were given a 12C Platinum he would twist his head and say "no, thanks!". :-)" That's correct. Actually, I had one in my hands, property of a fellow HP fan and collector. Despite having bought it new for his collection at outrageous spanish prices (2x the US price or so), he didn't actually appreciate it at all. Neither did I, it doesn't hold a candle in terms of quality, ergonomy or aesthetics next to my USA-made HP-12C or even the Singapore-made one. By the way, I'm curious: has the GTO bug been ironed out in the latest version or is it still hampering long-program development ? Thanks for your always kind words and best regards from V.

 The latest 12cpMessage #10 Posted by Gene on 8 Mar 2006, 12:14 p.m.,in response to message #9 by Valentin Albillo Hi Valentin... 1) The 12cp can use all 400 program steps. No problems. 2) I have a 12cp with your trig program in it (which is a jewel!), a lunar lander game (Thanks Tony!) and a bagels game (Thanks Tony!) and a Jive Turkey high/low game. All working in 400 steps. One could have a 12cp with Valentin's trig program, the Black/Scholes options program, and even a game or two. I do agree with your comments when compared to older 12c's. Gene

 Re: The latest 12cpMessage #11 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 8 Mar 2006, 12:59 p.m.,in response to message #10 by Gene Hi Gene, Gene wrote: "I have a 12cp with your trig program in it (which is a jewel!)" Thanks a lot, you're always so kind to my humble productions. Good to know that the 400 steps are finally fully usable, GTO's and all. I have a further curiosity: what are the times for my trigonometric functions when run in the latest HP12CP version, specially as compared to the ones I gave in my original article for the regular HP-12C ? And what about accuracy ? Is it maintained or even increased ? Or do all the examples come out with the identical results ? I remember reading somewhere that the HP12CP took much, much longer to run some HP-12C programs, for instance the high-degree equation in one of my examples featured in my "HP-12C Serendipitous Solver" article. Has this been corrected, so that times are at least equal, preferably faster ? Thanks again and best regards from V.

 Re: The latest 12cpMessage #12 Posted by gene on 8 Mar 2006, 2:07 p.m.,in response to message #11 by Valentin Albillo Yes, the i-solving routine is much faster. Trig function results on the 12cp: For an argument of "1" COS: 0.5403023059 SIN: 0.8414709848 Time: 6 seconds vs. 9 in your paper. With an argument of "1" ArcSIN: 1.570796327 Time: Just under 7 seconds vs. 15 in your paper. Not bad! If one can live with not having 1985 style keys. :-(

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #13 Posted by Gene on 7 Mar 2006, 11:56 a.m.,in response to message #1 by MikeS Only on the now discontinued HP19bII calculator. No other business calculator from HP had trig functions (well, unless you go back to 1976 or so with the VERY discontinued HP-27). However, there are several nice programs for the HP12c and HP12c platinum that give trigonometric functions without much effort. Valentin is the master at implementing these functions on the HP12c. His program is (I think?) in the articles list. So, short answer: No currently made HP business calculator has trig functions built in.

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #14 Posted by gene on 7 Mar 2006, 11:58 a.m.,in response to message #1 by MikeS Short answer: No currently made HP business calculator has trig functions. Although the \$30 TI BAII Plus does. Go figure. However, you do have some options if you are so inclined: The now discontinued HP19bII (still found on ebay anywhere from \$40 to \$80 or so) did include trig functions. The HP12c and HP12c platinum can be programmed to solve the basic trig functions. The best program (IMO) is one written by Valentin, a frequent contributor to this forum. I think his program is in the articles section (if not, it should be). Hope this helps.

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #15 Posted by Vieira, L. C. (Brazil) on 7 Mar 2006, 1:48 p.m.,in response to message #1 by MikeS Hi, Mike; as for standard RPN models, the HP27 (Woodstock) and the HP19BII were the only financial ones offered with trigonometrics (the HP19BII had no GRADs mode, though). HP27 The HP19B was only algebraic capability, and the newer HP17BII+ has PI as a constant, but has no trigonometric resources <8^O If a user program is a solution, then there are many alernatives for the HP12C, some of them are well known by: Viktor Toth, Valentin Albillo and Gerson Barbosa. If I am not wrong, Viktor´s is the smallest one of them. Valentin Albillo has the PDF files for his trigonometrics programs availble through his homepage, already mentioned here. The other ones for the HP17BII were created by W. B. McGuire II and by Michael Blankenship. Hope this helps a bit more. Luiz (Brazil)

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #16 Posted by bill platt on 7 Mar 2006, 4:42 p.m.,in response to message #15 by Vieira, L. C. (Brazil) Hi Luiz, Being a 27s fan, now as I look at that HP27, I am really wanting one...very sweet!

 It's a beauty, isn't she? 8^) N.T.Message #17 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 7 Mar 2006, 6:02 p.m.,in response to message #16 by bill platt

 Re: It's a beauty, isn't she? 8^) N.T.Message #18 Posted by Walter B on 8 Mar 2006, 2:23 a.m.,in response to message #17 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) For sure she is! d:^) But - sadly - too many people stand in the line for her ... So you'll need a lot of \$\$\$ to get her. Marginal chances for honest people earning money with proper technical work. d:-(

 Re: It's a beauty, isn't she? 8^) N.T.Message #19 Posted by bill platt on 8 Mar 2006, 8:24 a.m.,in response to message #18 by Walter B If I sold my violin I could buy one :-\

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #20 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 8 Mar 2006, 5:07 p.m.,in response to message #15 by Vieira, L. C. (Brazil) Hi Luiz, Thanks for the publicity :-) The link you provided leads to the old 12C version. Here is an updated link to the 12CP Platinum version, the one you have kindly taken to time to test: Needless to say, the listing font is yours. By the way, I have already received the books, thanks a lot! I hope you have received my email. Cheers, Gerson. Edited: 8 Mar 2006, 5:09 p.m.

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #21 Posted by Vieira, L. C. (Brazil) on 8 Mar 2006, 7:17 p.m.,in response to message #20 by Gerson W. Barbosa Yeap, I got the e-mail... My bad not acknowledging, sorry! Good publicity goes for good stuff, indeed! Cheers. Luiz

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #22 Posted by MikeS on 7 Mar 2006, 5:57 p.m.,in response to message #1 by MikeS Thanks everyone for responding. I think I'll give programming the 12cp a try. Mike

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #23 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 7 Mar 2006, 7:00 p.m.,in response to message #22 by MikeS If you have the newer Platinum, you can try this: I haven't tested it myself, but Luiz has. According to him, the program returns 9.000148569 for asin(acos(atan(tan(cos(sen(9)))))), ( 9 R/S GTO 094 R/S GTO 104 R/S GTO 157 R/S GTO 141 R/S GTO 123 R/S, on the calculator). Regards, Gerson.

 Re: Trig functions on any of the business calculators?Message #24 Posted by John Smitherman on 8 Mar 2006, 10:37 p.m.,in response to message #1 by MikeS Hi Mike. One possibility to add trig functions to the 12cp would be to use the yellow shift key and the right half of the keyboard. In addition to the trig functions other functions could be added as well as plenty of keys are available. The new model could be called the 12cp+. This might attract some new buyers. Regards, John

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