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HP 32sII - upgrade memory to 32K?
Message #1 Posted by * on 30 Jan 2006, 10:50 p.m.

Hello, I'm pretty happy with my 32sII with one exception... Well, 2 exceptions since I'm still looking for one with the double-shot keys. The memory is so pitiful. As I'm sure you know.

Then I stumbled across this article:

Increasing HP-42s Memory to 32K

Has anyone tried that with their 32sII?

It sounds very delicate and risky. Drilling and cutting. There's no way I could do that myself and my 32sII is brand-new. Still I wish there was some business (like HP!) I could send it to that would do it for me, with some kind of a guarantee if the operation didn't go as planned... Or better, would sell one already upgraded. Don't you agree? I would just buy the 42s but the screen sounds almost painful to read and I love the big, sharp digits on the 32sII.

      
Re: HP 32sII - upgrade memory to 32K?
Message #2 Posted by Thomas Okken on 31 Jan 2006, 8:40 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by *

Quote:
I would just buy the 42s but the screen sounds almost painful to read

It is true that the HP-42S display has rather poor contrast compared to, say, the 41 and the Voyagers, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's painful to read. My eyesight is not great but my only issue with the 42S is that the viewing angle is a bit limited; once I adjust the contrast to match my usual viewing angle, I have no problems with it.

      
Re: HP 32sII - upgrade memory to 32K?
Message #3 Posted by Ron Ross on 31 Jan 2006, 9:02 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by *

I don't think the Hp32s has any provision for RAM upgrade. The Hp42s was designed to have 32K RAM, but only sold with 8K for price and marketing reasons (since it has no I/O, 32K isn't needed or used often and a memory clear or reset is very painful to see).

If you want a 32s with 32K, buy an Hp33s. It is a 32sii with 32K RAM (although, not quite as good of quality and certainly not nearly as classic).

      
Re: HP 32sII - upgrade memory to 32K?
Message #4 Posted by Gerson W. Barbosa on 31 Jan 2006, 9:02 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by *

The HP-42S can be upgraded to 32K because its OS can handle this much memory. I fear the 32SII wouldn't accept this large memory upgrade, but I am not the right person to tell.

Anyway, if you're pleased with the 32SII I think you should give the HP-33S a try because:

- it's backward compatible with the 32SII you're used to;

- it has 32K, much more than one will ever need (on the 33S);

- two-line easy-to-read display, but get the newer one with larger dots and commas;

- good keyboard;

- fanciful design.

Ok, to some the latter might be a weakness. I just think it should be slightly smaller, especially in the length. Nevertheless, I'd go for a 43S the same shape if only it were available...

      
Re: HP 32sII - upgrade memory to 32K?
Message #5 Posted by Norris on 31 Jan 2006, 12:50 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by *

Even if you could upgrade the 32SII memory, you would still be in for a major disappointment. Other features of the 32SII wouldn't allow you to take full advantage of the larger memory.

The 32SII offers only a very limited number of labels (A to Z, plus i), which *cannot* be reused between different programs. Every program title, loop, or branch uses one up. This is not normally a limitation with the the 32SII, because you run out of memory before you run out of labels. But if you removed the memory limitation, you would soon run into the label limitation.

The 33S, which is basically a 32SII with a 2-line display and 32K memory, has this problem. Even though the memory is greatly enlarged, it's difficult to load more than a few moderately complex programs into it, because you run out of labels. The "effective" memory capacity for programs is greater than that of the 32SII, but not nearly as much as you would expect. The increased memory of the 33S does allow you to store virtually unlimited numbers of equations, but it does not allow you to store a large number of additional programs.

            
Re: HP 32sII - upgrade memory to 32K?
Message #6 Posted by * on 31 Jan 2006, 11:47 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Norris

Thanks for all the responses... This board is great.

That's a good point about the number of labels. I guess I'll have to buy the 42s then. I actually had one about 10 years ago but it was stored at my parent's house and they're not sure what they did with it, "maybe we gave it away" (!!!) I can't remember how difficult the display is to read, maybe it won't be that bad. The 32sII display is definitely nice though.

There's no way I'd buy the 33s with the weird keyboard and cheap construction. And I thought even the new version had tiny periods and commas?

                  
Re: HP 32sII - upgrade memory to 32K?
Message #7 Posted by Jeff O. on 1 Feb 2006, 7:27 a.m.,
in response to message #6 by *

Quote:
I guess I'll have to buy the 42s then....I can't remember how difficult the display is to read, maybe it won't be that bad.

By all means, find your old one or otherwise get another 42S. Yes, the display is somewhat more difficult to read than the 32S/SII or even the 33S. The absolute superiority of the 42S in every other way (in my humble opinion, of course) more than makes up for this shortcoming.
Quote:
And I thought even the new version had tiny periods and commas?

Check this message and judge for yourself.
                  
Re: HP 32sII - upgrade memory to 32K?
Message #8 Posted by e.young on 1 Feb 2006, 5:17 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by *

if you get a 33s with a serial number CNA 5xxxx or later you will have a unit with the improved display and keyboard. There is no more legibility problem with the decimal point, the keyboard has a better tactile feel, and I have yet to have a keystroke fail to enter.

With that being said, just looking at the 33s can be difficult, although it is more functional than the beloved early 32sII. I find myself using the 32sII for tasks that don't require any programs, and I use my 33s for tasks that do. I have about 10 programs in my 33s, and it is a great time saver. These were tasks I used to do on Excel, but I prefer using my HP.

            
Re: HP 32sII - upgrade memory to 32K?
Message #9 Posted by John Noble on 1 Feb 2006, 1:17 a.m.,
in response to message #5 by Norris

Quote:
The 33S, which is basically a 32SII with a 2-line display and 32K memory, has this problem. Even though the memory is greatly enlarged, it's difficult to load more than a few moderately complex programs into it, because you run out of labels.

It depends on how you write the programs. If you take the traditional approach of doing this:

A0001 LBL A
A0002 X>Y?
A0003 GTO Z
.....
Z0001 LBL Z
Z0002 1
Z0003 +
Z0004 2
Z0005 *
Z0006 RTN

... it's only nine lines of code, but you'll chew up labels in a hurry.

A far less elegant way to do it that conserves labels is to use a flag and keep testing it:

A0001 LBL A
A0002 CF 0
A0003 X>Y?
A0004 SF 0
A0005 FS? 0
A0006 1
A0007 FS? 0
A0008 +
A0009 FS? 0
A0010 2
A0011 FS? 0
A0012 *
A0013 CF 0
.....

Thirteen lines, one label.

Either all the flag tests will fail and skip over the stuff in between, or all of them will succeed and the code gets executed.

Inlining subroutines like this feels cheesy and obviously won't work in a lot of situations, but there's RAM to burn and it can save a bunch of labels you'd otherwise have to waste on simple conditionals.

I probably saved 4 or so labels this way in a ~100 line program I wrote recently. The code is ugly as hell, but it computes Julian dates given a Gregorian date (the usual dd.mmyyyy, expected in stack X) and an optional time zone offset from UTC & time (tz.hhmmss, expected in stack Y) with one label. Working this way, I think I might actually run out of RAM before I run out of labels.

                  
Re: HP 32sII - upgrade memory to 32K?
Message #10 Posted by Howard Owen on 1 Feb 2006, 1:58 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by John Noble

I've done this too, and hated myself afterwards. 8)

It's true that there's plenty of memory. But repeating those tests takes cpu, also. It might be interesting to time a 32SII with labels versus a 33S with repeated tests to see how many tests it takes before they cross over.

Edited: 1 Feb 2006, 1:58 a.m.

                        
Re: HP 32sII - upgrade memory to 32K?
Message #11 Posted by John Noble on 1 Feb 2006, 12:00 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by Howard Owen

Quote:
I've done this too, and hated myself afterwards. 8)

Yeah, it makes feel so ... dirty.

Quote:
It's true that there's plenty of memory. But repeating those tests takes cpu, also. It might be interesting to time a 32SII with labels versus a 33S with repeated tests to see how many tests it takes before they cross over.

It doesn't seem to matter on a 33S. Execution speed of the aforementioned hack is nearly instantaneous. It might matter in a loop with a lot of iterations, but I doubt it would amount to much.

As far as crossover, you could write something like 26 programs of 200 lines each on a 33S if each used one label (assuming 5k lines filled the available 32k). That's a lot more button pushing than I want to do, especially with no way to back up the programs. A 32SII would never get close, though you'd be a lot happier about looking at it while entering your programs. :-)

                  
Re: HP 32sII - upgrade memory to 32K?
Message #12 Posted by Norris on 1 Feb 2006, 5:36 p.m.,
in response to message #9 by John Noble

If you are willing to change your programming style to adapt to the limitations of the 33S, then yes, this technique is ugly but will work.

Incidentally, you can also save labels on the 33S by *not* using them to separate programs. For example, start program 1 at line A0001, program 2 at line A0200, program 3 at line A0300, etc. Fill up any extra lines between programs with RTN statements.

Then you can select and start programs by using "GTO ." to move the program pointer. For example, "GTO . A0200 R/S" will start Program 2. "GTO . A0300 R/S" will start Program 3, etc. Obviously you have to remember the line numbers.

      
Re: HP 32sII - upgrade memory to 32K?
Message #13 Posted by e. young on 31 Jan 2006, 2:09 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by *

If you want a 32SII with double shot keys, look for one made before 1995. I have one made in 1993 in Singapore that has the double shot keys, and a former coworker had one made in 1995 in Singapore that had the painted keys.

If you're looking for one on ebay, ask what the serial number is. This website tells you how to decode the serial number so you can tell what year the calc was manufactured. If you're looking at pictures on ebay, one way to distinguish the double shot keys from the painted keys is that the "e" in the "ex" key is larger with the double shot keys.

            
Re: HP 32sII - upgrade memory to 32K?
Message #14 Posted by * on 31 Jan 2006, 11:50 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by e. young

Thanks, it sounds like 1993 is the golden year!

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