HP Forum Archive 15

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Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #1 Posted by Ron Ross on 1 Nov 2005, 2:42 p.m. I don't have and will not get a Paypal account. I pay by M.O. or cash (I used to pay quite often with Cash, but got burned recently, so MO is my payment of choice). Still, I don't trust Paypal and when an auction says Paypal only, I sadly walk away. I notice that more and more sellers only accept Paypal only. I used to try to contact them, but with Buy it now (Paypal required), I find this not worth the effort to circumvent this trend. But I am venting on this forum in case any future sellers may want my patronage. (I admit, this is not an overwhelming arguement).

Paypal Message #2 Posted by bill platt on 1 Nov 2005, 3:06 p.m., in response to message #1 by Ron Ross Paypal/Ebay is the M$ of e-commerce. You either find a way to deal with it, or become a marginalized member of the alternative universe--in other words a Linux desktop user :^)

Re: Paypal Message #3 Posted by Wayne Brown on 2 Nov 2005, 12:59 p.m., in response to message #2 by bill platt But I use both PayPal and Linux. :-)

Re: Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #4 Posted by I, Claudius on 1 Nov 2005, 3:17 p.m., in response to message #1 by Ron Ross The more people that reject PayPal the better things will get. Check out www.paypalsucks.com

Re: Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #5 Posted by Chris Woodhouse on 1 Nov 2005, 3:27 p.m., in response to message #1 by Ron Ross I really can't see what the problem with paypal is. I have used it for many years now, it's fast and easy. I don't have to go to a bank or somewhere else and pay for a money order. I can see why some people don't like ebay though. It is hard to find a good deal on there but they do exist, and if you get screwed by a seller it is unlikely they will do much of anything about it. But paypal just sends money, I've never had any problems with my money getting to the seller and I have got money from a few buyers of some odds and ends I have sold with out any problems. What's the beef? Chris W

What's the beef? Message #6 Posted by John on 2 Nov 2005, 5:27 p.m., in response to message #5 by Chris Woodhouse Read what's at the website posted above and you should see what some of the problems are.

Re: Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #7 Posted by Ron Ross on 3 Nov 2005, 8:40 a.m., in response to message #5 by Chris Woodhouse I have no problem with the seller accepting PAYPAL as long as they also allow other options. But many auctions are PAYPAL ONLY. That is my gripe.

Re: Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #8 Posted by Just Another Mike on 1 Nov 2005, 4:34 p.m., in response to message #1 by Ron Ross I will only pay with my Bank's Certified Check (BCC). I've never used credit cards, so I will never use PayPal. If I get cheated, and I have (EBAY did nothing), my bank has retrieve my monies from the bank where the BCC was deposited/cashed and filed a fraud complaint.

Re: Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #9 Posted by Stephen Easterling on 1 Nov 2005, 9:45 p.m., in response to message #1 by Ron Ross I feel the same as you, Ron. What I do is contact the seller and tell them that I choose not to use PayPal and if I can pay with a US Postal money order. Remind them (in a tactful way) that you, as the buyer, represent a large number of collectors / buyers that don't use Paypal and convince the seller that they'll make more money on the sale if they open it up to money orders, too. If it's an international sale, then you wasting your time. Remember, as the buyer, you can put yourself in the driver's seat. The seller needs the buyer to turn the bucks. More potential buyers, more bucks! If the seller wants convenience, then they sacrifice those bucks! In a kind way, this is the message I convey to those sellers and I'm usually successful.

Re: Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #10 Posted by Howard Owen on 1 Nov 2005, 10:22 p.m., in response to message #1 by Ron Ross PayPal is free for buyers, but sellers get charged a percentage of the transaction. So an eBay seller ought to be delighted to take your Postal Money Order. It's cheaper for the seller, and it comes without any buyer protection at all. A personal check ought to be fine too, as long as it's stipulated that it has to clear before shipping. eBay tries to steer sellers into using PayPal in a variety of ways. Alongside the choices to reject bids by buyers with negative feedback scores, there's a checkbox to reject those that don't have a PayPal account. The implication is that a seller shouldn't trust a buyer without PayPal, of course. Pure self-serving nonsense. Pressure from eBay notwithstanding, a seller shouldn't arbitrarily limit the ways in which a customer transmits money to the seller. Not only is it a silly idea to put roadblocks in the way of behavior sellers tend to favor, it's a basic issue of customer service.

Re: Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #11 Posted by GE on 2 Nov 2005, 3:34 a.m., in response to message #10 by Howard Owen Regarding roadblocks in the way of completely honest buyers, you forgot the major one : many sellers limit their auctions to US-only bidders. I have talked to many sellers and most agree to deal with "foreign" countries (of course THEY are in the foreign country !!), but it is a pain. Same arguments as you : more buyers, no real drawback. If you receive the money OK, well, you receive the money, right ?? Nothing to kill for, of course. Funny to see less sought-after items go for a couple of $$ only...

Re: Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #12 Posted by James M. Prange (Michigan) on 2 Nov 2005, 4:11 a.m., in response to message #11 by GE I supppose that it's a matter of not being sure of how to handle such things as customs forms, non-domestic shipping, currency conversions and payments, and language differences. To be sure, restricting the market to US-only buyers may well eliminate a significant part of the potential market, but I suppose that many sellers regard the US market as being "good enough". Regards. James

Re: Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #13 Posted by GE on 3 Nov 2005, 8:47 a.m., in response to message #12 by James M. Prange (Michigan) Actually there is no problem with non-domestic shipping, you just write an address which happens to have different words on it. As for currency conversions, the seller always get paid in US$, so what ? As for language differences, I believe I am currently writing in English, so again what the hell ? As for the US market being good enough, I routinely saw items I would pay $30 for, go for $4. That sounds still too much for someone willing to enforce such a silly policy... Also note that items considered common in the US can be rare in other countries. Those who tried to purchase Swedish or Bulgarian machines know that. Just my point of view, this is a free world (maybe).

Re: Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #14 Posted by Tom Steiner on 3 Nov 2005, 9:13 a.m., in response to message #13 by GE The real problem with international transactions is lack of protection for the SELLER! If somebody uses a stolen credit card to PAYPAL some money to the seller, and that transaction is disputed a couple of weeks later, the seller is out the money *and* the goods. Within the US, Paypal offers seller protection, so that if a seller can prove shipment (delivery confirmation, etc.) then he/she is protected against chargebacks. With respect to shipping outside the US, it's very simple if you use the US Postal Service. But don't try to use FedEx or UPS - they will bury you with forms (commercial invoice, etc.).

Re: Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #15 Posted by James M. Prange (Michigan) on 2 Nov 2005, 3:59 a.m., in response to message #1 by Ron Ross I can easily see why a seller wouldn't want to use PayPal, but as a buyer, it seems to me better than the alternative ways of pre-paying for an item that I hope to receive as described. When paying for an item, what's the problem with using PayPal? Of course, there is some risk, but that's also true whenever I use a credit card or personal check, online or not. Still, restricting the payment method to only PayPal seems counter-productive to me. Regards, James

Re: Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #16 Posted by Stephen Easterling on 2 Nov 2005, 7:53 a.m., in response to message #15 by James M. Prange (Michigan) The main reason I hear regarding why sellers only use PayPal is that they hate the hassels of having to go to the bank to cash / deposit a check or money order and keep track of what needs to clear. Some sellers that handle a lot of transactions claim they don't need the business of just a few folk wishing to pay with money orders, etc. (or at least this is what their actions are saying). Frequently, they make up for it by opening the auctions to international buyers so they can pay with PayPal (electronically). Shipping internationally is not a pain at all. Making payment internationally CAN BE a pain if you don't do it electronically and if you can't get an international postal money order for that country. I see both sides of the coin. But when I'm the "buyer" and the seller won't accept a postal money order for a calculator I really want, I just try good, clean communication with them and hope they accomodate my payment method. As I mentioned before, most of the time they do because they don't want to exclude someone that might drive their bids up and make a good sale. You see this on collectible but you don't see this on, e.g., imitation purses, colognes, clothing materials, and other fake stuff you come across on Ebay, as well as the other goods that are open to an extremely large market of buyers (like cameras, computer-related parts, etc.). For a collectible, the seller is looking to clear as much as they can, and when they realize the need of more bidders, they usually allow MO payments. (Sorry my response is so long!)

Re: Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #17 Posted by Chan Tran on 2 Nov 2005, 12:27 p.m., in response to message #16 by Stephen Easterling The problem with paypal as a buyer is that you can be out of money for much more than your bid amount. Someone could hack your account and get the money. If you lose the money order you lose only the amount in the money order. You're not exposed to any identiy theft either by paying by money order.

Re: Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #18 Posted by unspellable on 2 Nov 2005, 4:37 p.m., in response to message #17 by Chan Tran I have to go with Chan Tran on this one. Especially after I caught AT&T double dipping in my checking account. That caused a lot of grief with checks bouncing and what not, and AT&T's "customer service" took over a year to get it ironed out. I must have spent twenty hours on the phone to them plus a number of letters, the first of which they promptly lost. Paypay wants access to your checking account so that if you reverse the credit card charge they can suck it out of your checking account. Not withstanding you may have reversed the credit card charge for good and sufficient reasons. There is no other reason they would want access to your checking account and no other merchant I pay by credit card demands access to my checking account. Paypal allows you to spend the first $1000 without access to your checking account as the hook. If they want my 1001st dollar they can get it the same way they got the first 1000. BTW: AT&T is NOT my long distance carrier these days.

Re: Ebay Seller Gripe! Message #19 Posted by James M. Prange (Michigan) on 2 Nov 2005, 7:12 p.m., in response to message #17 by Chan Tran Yes, there is a risk that someone could hack my PayPal account. There's also a risk that someone could hack my bank account, credit card account, or various retirement accounts, whether I access them online or not. Yes, a postal money order is safe. But even "international" postal money orders aren't accepted by all countries. Also, it means a trip to the post office to purchase it, an extra fee, the cost of mailing it, and of course a few extra days for it to go through the mail. Regards, James

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