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HP Forum Archive 15

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Saturn compatibility HP49G+ #2.00 ROM
Message #1 Posted by Christoph Giesselink on 9 May 2005, 7:05 p.m.

I made some Saturn compatibility tests on the HP49G+ #2.00 ROM.

The #1.23 version especially failed on the following opcodes when in DEC mode and the operators are illegal decimal numbers.

r=r-1  fs
r=r-s  fs
r=-r   fs
r=-r-1 fs

The bugs in the

r=r-1  fs
r=r-s  fs
r=-r   fs
opcode emulation have been fixed in the #2.00 version,

r=-r-1 fs

still return wrong results in DEC mode.

I don't know if

r=r+1  fs
r=r+s  fs
worked correctly in DEC mode with the #1.23 version, but in #2.00 it works ok.

Finally some bad news: Emu28 v1.06, Emu42 v1.03 and Emu48 v1.36 and each earlier version will also return wrong results on the r=r-s fs opcodes in some rare situations. This will be fixed in the next versions.

Regards

Christoph

      
Re: Saturn compatibility HP49G+ #2.00 ROM
Message #2 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 10 May 2005, 4:02 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Christoph Giesselink

Quote:
Finally some bad news: Emu28 v1.06, Emu42 v1.03 and Emu48 v1.36 and each earlier version will also return wrong results on the r=r-s fs opcodes in some rare situations. This will be fixed in the next versions.

IMHO this is _good news_ <VBG>

Ciao.....Mike

BTW - I wrote a kind of "decode/code" routine for Emu42 key bord macros (well, it's nothing special, just two little pipes). But it allows me to edit those macros. Yes, for sure, it's something like your mac2txt but quite simpler as I do not care for key release and timeing. I wanted to migrate a 68x2 matrix from the HP-41 to the HP-42S, so your mk17mac was very close but not exactly what I needed <G>.

      
Re: Saturn compatibility HP49G+ #2.00 ROM
Message #3 Posted by Olivier De Smet on 10 May 2005, 4:56 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Christoph Giesselink

This reminds me the same behavior in the Capricorn CPU (HP85) but this behavior is used in the rom !!

So to emulate it I had to have the exact same bahavior :) (lots of assembly session on a partially running emulator, then transfert on a disk to a real HP86, then run to get the "right" result and so on)

Olivier

Btw the new HP49G+ rom remove almost all non registered keypress :) (SN CN33404362) nice improvement !

Edited: 10 May 2005, 4:58 a.m.

            
Re: Saturn compatibility HP49G+ #2.00 ROM
Message #4 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 10 May 2005, 6:11 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by Olivier De Smet

> Btw the new HP49G+ rom remove almost
> all non registered keypress :)
> (SN CN33404362) nice improvement !
>
What do you mean with 'almost' ?
In my understanding you wrote that it still misses key strokes,
maybe less than before, but still...
a bit less unreliable is still unreliable;-)

In the other related thread it's also mentioned
that the keyboard problem is still there.

The issue could be regarded as resolved when
the hp49g+ doesn't miss *any* key strokes.

It's still a joke that there are tips that you have to
press the keys in a specific manner to minimize key misses.
For what reason do the keys have their tactile feedback then,
which should be an indicator if the key has been registered?

Raymond

                  
Re: Saturn compatibility HP49G+ #2.00 ROM
Message #5 Posted by bill platt on 10 May 2005, 1:32 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Raymond Del Tondo

I agree Raymond--I still have not bought a 49G- I will wait.

                  
Re: Saturn compatibility HP49G+ #2.00 ROM
Message #6 Posted by EL on 10 May 2005, 1:46 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Raymond Del Tondo

I agree Raymond.

The kbd should be intuitive, and responsive. BTW, anyone know *WHY* hp didn't just revert to the button style of the 48 series instead of trying to reinvent it?

EL

                        
Re: Saturn compatibility HP49G+ #2.00 ROM
Message #7 Posted by John on 10 May 2005, 2:52 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by EL

You assume they knew how to make ones today like those of the 48. The people who did the earlier design are certainly long gone. The people making the calculators now are not the ones who made it then.

Imagine trying to recreate a working Saturn V rocket today. Many of the technologies don't exist any more.

There has been a break in the chain from the 48 calculators to the ones we have today. ACO was the broken link, it seems to me.

                        
Re: Saturn compatibility HP49G+ #2.00 ROM
Message #8 Posted by John Limpert on 10 May 2005, 4:23 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by EL

I suspect that the difference is between designing a keyboard in-house and shopping around for a manufacturer that can already produce a keyboard that is "good enough".

                              
Re: Saturn compatibility HP49G+ #2.00 ROM
Message #9 Posted by John on 10 May 2005, 4:51 p.m.,
in response to message #8 by John Limpert

And remembering that there really is no "in house" anymore.

HP does not have a calculator production operation any longer.

They can design some things, but the days of Corvallis are long gone.

I suspect even the days of ACO are long gone.

                              
Re: Saturn compatibility HP49G+ #2.00 ROM
Message #10 Posted by Jake Schwartz on 12 May 2005, 9:27 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by John Limpert

If I remember correctly, Dennis York (formerly the head of many HP calculator projects in Corvallis) told us at the 2000 HP Calculator Conference in Los Angeles that the HP person who was responsible for the HP48 mechanical key design went with Dennis to Tripod Data Systems. They used his expertise to build the keyboards on their Ranger surveying product, with info currently located at http://www.tdsway.com/products/ranger on the web.

Jake Schwartz

                        
Hps quote is ..INVENT! remember ..N..T.
Message #11 Posted by Marx Pio on 11 May 2005, 1:26 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by EL

n.t.

                  
Re: Saturn compatibility HP49G+ #2.00 ROM
Message #12 Posted by Christoph Giesselink on 10 May 2005, 2:09 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Raymond Del Tondo

Hello Raymond,

my HP49G+ unit (SN347xxxxx) lost keys with the #1.23 ROM not very often, not as much as the 1st HP49G+ we tried on the 1st Allschwil meeting. Yesterday I updated to #2.00 and so far I haven't recognozed _any_ missing key. This says of course not too much, because I only done the Saturn tests, checked the behaviour of my MKAL program on the new display implementation and played a little bit around with Minehunt game included in the Equation Library.

Regards,

Christoph

                        
Re: Saturn compatibility HP49G+ #2.00 ROM
Message #13 Posted by Ed Look on 22 May 2005, 10:38 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by Christoph Giesselink

Um...

... where did you guys get ROM v. 2.00? I couldn't find it on HP's website!

                              
Never Mind: Saturn compatibility HP49G+ #2.00 ROM
Message #14 Posted by Ed Look on 23 May 2005, 12:17 a.m.,
in response to message #13 by Ed Look

I was fooled by HP's designations on the page. They still call it v. 1.23 while it is REALLY v. 2.00. I wish/hope (espero?) that they will "update" the information on their page.


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