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HP Forum Archive 15

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Upcoming free training opportunities from HP
Message #1 Posted by Gene on 2 May 2005, 12:46 p.m.

Here's the HP training schedule for May. These are free teleconference/online training seminars on the topics listed below. They are only available now for those in the US (sorry!).

The Power, Versatility, Differences of the HP Graphing Series - 05/11/2005 @ 3PM (PST) 
 Pre-Algebra using the HP 39g+ - 05/12/2005 @ 2PM (PST) 
 Algebra I using the HP 39g+ - 05/17/2005 @ 2PM (PST) 
 Algebra II using the HP 39g+ - 05/18/2005 @ 2PM (PST) 
 Pre-Calculus using the 39g+ - 05/19/2005 @ 3PM (PST) 
 Calculus using the HP 49g+ - 05/24/2005 @ 2PM (PST) 
 Solving Circuit Applications - 05/25/2005 @ 2PM (PST) 
 Introduction to Finance - 05/26/2005 @ 2PM (PST)

You can register to attend (and get the email with the appropriate link for the seminar) by going here:

http://www.hp.com/calculators/training/virtual_classroom.html

The trainer profiles can be viewed here:

http://www.hp.com/calculators/training/trainers.html

I will be doing the "Introduction to Finance" seminar and the seminar for "The Power, Versatility, Differences of the HP Graphing Series".

I'd be interested in what any of you think after attending/participating in one or more of these offerings.

Gene

      
Congrats!
Message #2 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 2 May 2005, 1:33 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Gene

Great news, Gene. Congratulations! Good to see your name there.

Is there any chance that HP expands these programs elsewhere, meaning... other countries? Maybe with... local, native instructors? d8^)

Just to know...

Best regards and success!

Luiz (Brazil)

      
HP Needs To Fix The Hardware First
Message #3 Posted by Diogenes on 2 May 2005, 10:23 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Gene

A splendid idea - but why doesn't HP spend the same effort with hardware/manufacturing quality control? I have my second 49+ with a defective keyboard. Sending it back to HP yet again is a moot issue, the probability of getting yet another substandard unit appears high. Until you have consistent, quality hardware, all these advanced usages are pipe dreams.

            
Re: HP Needs To Fix The Hardware First
Message #4 Posted by John on 2 May 2005, 10:37 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Diogenes

1) Not all the training opportunities are for models with keyboard problems.

2) Most all the people involved in the training opportunities are not involved in fixing hardware problems, so there is no wasted effort.

3) Not every user even has hardware problems.

Be reasonable.

                  
Re: HP Needs To Fix The Hardware First
Message #5 Posted by Richard Garner on 3 May 2005, 1:13 a.m.,
in response to message #4 by John

I think Diogenes is being reasonable. You wouldn't want to drive a car that ever time you accelerated from a dead stop the steering wheel came off the steering column? The keyboard is the steering wheel for the calculator isn't it? In today's world, a wrong mathematical calculation is just as dangerous or more dangerous than a car with a steering problem. A problem with the car may just injure you, a problem in a mathematical calculation may injure thousands and cost millions.

Example: Mars Explorer. Everyone writing the programs for the mission used Metric measurements except the the group that wrote the programs for orbit insertion, they used English measurements. Instead of going into orbit it crashed and cost the country a several billion dollar spacecraft and several thousand jobs.

Just imagine if it had been an automatic landing system for an airline instead of a space probe.

                        
Re: HP Needs To Fix The Hardware First
Message #6 Posted by John on 3 May 2005, 7:39 a.m.,
in response to message #5 by Richard Garner

But neither of you are being reasonable.

I assume HP has an admin assistant on staff in the calculator division.

Should he/she never type a letter until the keyboard problem is fixed? Of course not.

I assume HP has individual(s) responsible for offering training materials to teachers, students, others. Since they are training people and not hardware engineers, should they sit on their hands until the keyboard problems are fixed?

You guys can't really believe that. You are upset because of the continued hardware problems, and perhaps rightly so, but that has nothing to do with what admin assistants should do each day or what those involved in training should do.

                              
You Reveal Yourself For A Bureaucrat
Message #7 Posted by Diogenes on 3 May 2005, 11:46 a.m.,
in response to message #6 by John

The inanity of your response is unbelievable! Trumpeting training seminars while ignoring glaring hardware deficiencies is just the sort of thing a salesman would do. This could only come from a bureaucratic type, not a tech oriented type. I'd be ashamed to post such drivel.

It is just this sort of thinking that has produced such poor quality from HP to begin with. If the hardware is incapable of performing its job, no amount of software or training seminars can make it work.

Fix the hardware or nothing else matters!

                                    
World Peace
Message #8 Posted by John on 3 May 2005, 8:09 p.m.,
in response to message #7 by Diogenes

Again, be reasonable.

You are speaking in public where everyone can see you.

You certainly have a point that the keyboards need to be fixed and I'm not sure there are any denying that.

But fixing hardware and offering training on all their products are not mutually exclusive.

Otherwise, I shall assume you won't eat again until World Peace is accomplished.

                                          
Re: World Peace
Message #9 Posted by Diogenes on 4 May 2005, 9:27 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by John

Yes indeed, the world has seen the depth of your thinking. *PLONK*

                                                
Re: World Peace
Message #10 Posted by . on 5 May 2005, 3:25 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by Diogenes

Grow up. Amazingly enough, HP does not owe you anything.

.

                                                      
What HP owes me
Message #11 Posted by James M. Prange (Michigan) on 5 May 2005, 2:17 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by .

Doesn't HP owe me a calculator that works correctly? After all, when I paid my money, that's what I expected to get. I had my 49g+ replaced under warranty twice, and the current replacement still misses a lot of keystrokes, and the warranty is expired. I figure that they've stolen my money, unless they come up with an extended warranty program for the 49g+.

Regards,
James

                                                            
Re: What HP owes me
Message #12 Posted by C÷burlin on 5 May 2005, 3:42 p.m.,
in response to message #11 by James M. Prange (Michigan)

They replaced the keyboard twice for problems that most people would probably ignore. Sounds like operator error anyway. Press the buttons firmly and slow down.

But you think you are entitled to a free extended warranty, somebody else wants all sorts of expensive quality improvements, somebody else wants free shipping. And you cry "thief" when it fails out of warranty! Maybe it wont last 20 years like the classics, but you got exactly what you paid for.

Why dont you get some investors and start your own calculator company since you obviously think more expensive products will sell better. Or maybe you could help HP apply for a government subsidy and let the taxpayers finance your demands. As long as someone else has to pay I am sure you will be happy. I bet you dont even own any HP stock.

                                                                  
(deleted post)
Message #13 Posted by deleted on 5 May 2005, 6:34 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by C÷burlin

This Message was deleted. This empty message preserves the threading when a post with followup(s) is deleted.

                                                                        
Re: What HP owes me
Message #14 Posted by C÷burlin on 5 May 2005, 10:11 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by deleted

Oh, so you are a lawyer now? A few minor glitches and you want to start a class action lawsuit? There is the road to riches! Talk about stealing.

Look at all your typo's! You can't even type correctly on a PC keyboard. No wonder you mess up your calculations! I think you need to switch to decaffe. I hope you don't design anything important.

HEY, are you doing this on company time?

                                                                  
Re: What HP owes me
Message #15 Posted by James M. Prange (Michigan) on 5 May 2005, 6:54 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by C÷burlin

Quote:
They replaced the keyboard twice for problems that most people would probably ignore. Sounds like operator error anyway.
It seems that an awful lot of people think that it feels like a defect. The broken key hinge certainly wasn't an "operator error", no matter how you look at it.
Quote:
Press the buttons firmly and slow down.
Sure, "just press firmly". When you type, whether on a typewriter, a computer keyboard, or a calculator, do you type that way? Or maybe you check the display to make sure that each and every keystroke registered?

But I guess that you never use the calculators; you just buy them from those who underestimate their market value and sell them to those who overestimate their market value. There's a sucker born every minute, and you're eager to take advantage of their foolishness.

Quote:
But you think you are entitled to a free extended warranty,
An extended warranty for a product with known designed-in defects makes sense to me.
Quote:
somebody else wants all sorts of expensive quality improvements, somebody else wants free shipping. And you cry "thief" when it fails out of warranty!
Read again. It failed in warranty, with three separate calculators. Since they haven't fixed the problem, it would've been rather pointless to exchange the calculator yet again.
Quote:
Maybe it wont last 20 years like the classics, but you got exactly what you paid for.
No, when the 49g+ was announced, it was supposed to have a better keyboard than the 49G. That's what I paid for, and still haven't gotten.
Quote:
Why dont you get some investors and start your own calculator company since you obviously think more expensive products will sell better. Or maybe you could help HP apply for a government subsidy and let the taxpayers finance your demands. As long as someone else has to pay I am sure you will be happy.
Government subsidy? The taxpayers? Someone else? Wherever are you getting those ideas from? I'd just like HP to supply me with what I paid for.
Quote:
I bet you dont even own any HP stock.
That's right, and considering where HP is heading, I'm glad that I never bought any HP stock. Yes, I know that HP has to keep its stockholders happy, but if it doesn't keep its customers satisfied, then I expect that there will be some very unhappy stockholders sooner or later.

Sincerely,
James

                                                                        
Re: What HP owes me
Message #16 Posted by C÷burlin on 5 May 2005, 10:20 p.m.,
in response to message #15 by James M. Prange (Michigan)

Here is an economics question for you math Geniuses out there: How much would a brand new HP-67 cost in 2005 dollars?

                                                                              
Re: What HP owes me
Message #17 Posted by James M. Prange (Michigan) on 7 May 2005, 12:56 a.m.,
in response to message #16 by C÷burlin

I'm not looking for a HP-67, just a 49g+ with a keyboard that works correctly. How much would that cost HP? After all, they managed to make the 48 series keyboards work, and by all reports, the 33S keyboards work. And no, I'm not asking for double-injected molded keys, as long as the key labels don't wear off.

                                                                        
The real "coburlin"?
Message #18 Posted by K on 6 May 2005, 2:38 a.m.,
in response to message #15 by James M. Prange (Michigan)

James Prange stated,

Quote:
But I guess that you never use the calculators; you just buy them from those who underestimate their market value and sell them to those who overestimate their market value. There's a sucker born every minute, and you're eager to take advantage of their foolishness.

I question whether you are responding to the actual "coburlin". Note the umlauted "o" in all the posts. Probably just someone who wants to needle people in anonymity...

                                                                              
Re: The real "coburlin"?
Message #19 Posted by C÷burlin on 6 May 2005, 7:23 a.m.,
in response to message #18 by K

You are correct! I am C÷burlin the Tr÷ll, not Coburlin the Merchant. But my points are valid.

                                                                                    
(deleted post)
Message #20 Posted by deleted on 6 May 2005, 9:14 a.m.,
in response to message #19 by C÷burlin

This Message was deleted. This empty message preserves the threading when a post with followup(s) is deleted.

                                                                                          
Re: The real "coburlin"?
Message #21 Posted by C÷burlin on 6 May 2005, 10:07 a.m.,
in response to message #20 by deleted

MY POINT BEING that the market has dictated a price for graphing calculators that does not support classic HP quality. How many people would pay $375 in TODAY's dollars for their dream machine? Even that does not factor in 3 for 1 deals, extended warranties and free shipping. So dont blame HP for trying to compete with a product that is ill received by complainers wanting something for nothing. The same people who thing buying low and selling high is immoral.

But as Bill says, lets just delete all this since some people can't take the truth. What a big baby.

                                                                                                
Actually, I DO agree with the troll on this point
Message #22 Posted by Gene on 6 May 2005, 10:54 a.m.,
in response to message #21 by C÷burlin

"the market has dictated a price for graphing calculators that does not support classic HP quality. How many people would pay $375 in TODAY's dollars for their dream machine? "

Gene: My guess is very few. Certainly, not enough people to make a going concern of it.

If we want HP calculators AT ALL, we must realize we live in a different world.

Gene (Hoping for a 33S with a good decimal point, a 49g+ that never misses a keystroke, etc)

                                                                                                      
Re: Actually, I DO agree with the troll on this point
Message #23 Posted by bill on 6 May 2005, 10:59 a.m.,
in response to message #22 by Gene

Gen,

you are falling into a trap.

Coburlin is wrong--we should not accept *defective* products.

TI sells graphing calculators at the same price range. The buttons work reliably.

Casio sells Graphing calculators at even less cost. The buttons work reliably.

Sharp sells graphing calculators at less cost. The buttons work reliably.

The complaint about the keyboard is a reasonable complaint. This "economics question" is a red herring.

-Bill

                                                                                                            
Difference in "defective" vs. "dream"
Message #24 Posted by Gene on 6 May 2005, 11:59 a.m.,
in response to message #23 by bill

I didn't intend to say "accept a calculator that has keyboard issues".

I was agreeing that the days of things made like the HP65 are long gone. Some of that means accepting some things that we don't like.

The TI83s and TI84s of the world aren't made like the TI's of years ago either.

SOMETHING is causing the HP48gII/HP49g+ keyboard issue and I certainly hope it is fixed soon.

But, we won't ever see injection moulded keys again, I'm afraid.

                                                                                                
(deleted post)
Message #25 Posted by deleted on 6 May 2005, 11:27 a.m.,
in response to message #21 by C÷burlin

This Message was deleted. This empty message preserves the threading when a post with followup(s) is deleted.

                                                                                                      
Re: The real "coburlin"?
Message #26 Posted by C÷burlin on 6 May 2005, 12:10 p.m.,
in response to message #25 by deleted

I want to made it clear I am NOT the same person as Coburlin. I don't know him at all.

What do you want my email for? So you can send me nasty notes in private or track me down? Who IS bill platt? Has anyone ever met him? I dont see his email address. Who is Diogenes? You could all be the same person for all I know, or some angry psycho nutcase. You are starting to sound like a troll yourself. LOL.

                                                                                                            
Re: The real "coburlin"?
Message #27 Posted by James M. Prange (Michigan) on 7 May 2005, 12:49 a.m.,
in response to message #26 by C÷burlin

Quote:
I want to made it clear I am NOT the same person as Coburlin. I don't know him at all.
So why do you use a "handle" that's so similar? It looks to me like an attempt to deceive.

James

                                                                                                
Re: The real "coburlin"?
Message #28 Posted by James M. Prange (Michigan) on 7 May 2005, 12:58 a.m.,
in response to message #21 by C÷burlin

The truth? The plain truth is that the 49g+ has a defective keyboard.

James

            
Re: HP Needs To Fix The Hardware First
Message #29 Posted by C÷burlin on 5 May 2005, 11:16 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by Diogenes

Why are you the only one who seems to be having keyboard problems? Just buy another one and take care of it this time!

1. Dont sit on your calculator. 2. Dont drink coffee over it. 3. Dont drool over it :) 4. Be gentle, not a caveman!

                  
Re: HP Needs To Fix The Hardware First
Message #30 Posted by John Limpert on 5 May 2005, 12:37 p.m.,
in response to message #29 by C÷burlin

He isn't the only one with keyboard problems. I'm on my second HP-49G+, and while it's better than the first one, it still misses key strokes at a maddening rate. I've been buying and using HP calculators since the stone age, and this is the first HP calculator I've bought that was defective by design.

How much would it cost HP to make a quality calculator in the USA, with double-shot injected keys, a high-quality keyboard, and a complete set of well-written and proofread spiral-bound manuals? HP used to design and make things, instead of outsourcing them to the lowest bidder, quality be damned. What happened to all of their mechanical and manufacturing engineers?


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