The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 14

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HP's new CEO
Message #1 Posted by Jim Creybohm on 29 Mar 2005, 6:48 p.m.

Might be a good time to buy HP stock. They just announced their new CEO. Mark Hurd, from NCR.

So, the question is; how will he treat the calculator line? Just another marketting drone? An engineering type?

http://businessweek.com/technology/content/mar2005/tc20050328_3476_tc024.htm

Since I am a reader (normally a lurker) I am hopeful that we will see some ingenuity in the calculator division. Anyone have opinions or ideas?

12345

      
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #2 Posted by Chan Tran on 30 Mar 2005, 7:56 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Jim Creybohm

May be HP calculators will have the Tax+ and Tax- functions?

      
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #3 Posted by Katie on 30 Mar 2005, 9:00 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Jim Creybohm

He seems like a realist and I don't think that we can expect much innovation from him given this quote from his recent book:

Quote:
As much as we'd like to believe that our product is superior and unique, the reality is that the differences between one product and a competitor's is a nuance a customer may not even discern.
            
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #4 Posted by Chan Tran on 30 Mar 2005, 10:53 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by Katie

Hmm! That's a pretty bad attitude. What he meant in term of calculators we are the exception who can see the difference between an HP, a TI or Casio.

                  
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #5 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 31 Mar 2005, 1:49 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Chan Tran

Regarding quality of the current models,
the difference between TI, Casio, and hp
seems to be that the other brands are better now;-)

Raymond

                        
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #6 Posted by VPN on 31 Mar 2005, 3:21 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Raymond Del Tondo

I'm not sure...
It's just HP is not as good as it used to be.
[VPN]

            
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #7 Posted by james summers (UK) on 30 Mar 2005, 11:19 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by Katie

Interesting quote, Katie, and sadly I would agree that if that's his viewpoint there isn't much hope.

However, judging by eBay prices, including what I've paid to acquire 20 to 30 year old HPs for daily use, there are quite a few people who can discern such nuances!!

                  
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #8 Posted by Larry Corrado, USA (WI) on 30 Mar 2005, 9:37 p.m.,
in response to message #7 by james summers (UK)

Just a small comment about a comment in the previous post:

"However, judging by eBay prices, including what I've paid to acquire 20 to 30 year old HPs for daily use, there are quite a few people who can discern such nuances!!"

First, we should keep in mind that it only takes two people to drive up the price of any given sale on ebay.

Sure, there are a few hundred (?) people on this forum who love HP calculators, and probably a similar number who buy them on ebay, but even if they would all buy whatever new HP model came out, they would not comprise a decent-size market for the new machine. I'm not a business person, but I would guess that HP (or any other company) would have to sell many tens of thousands (or maybe a few hundred thousand) units to reap a decent profit from a new machine.

Just my thoughts...

Larry

                        
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #9 Posted by Namir on 31 Mar 2005, 12:51 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by Larry Corrado, USA (WI)

Larry,

You hit it on the nail! The calculator market today brings small revenues to HP, compared to PCs, printers and cameras. For HP to recapture its old enthusiasm for new calculators (and kick TI's butt like it used to) people (and I am talking about common folks) have to go wild about buying HP calculators! In other words, H calculator sales must be like wild fires for the calculator division to regain its old prominant place. This is the feeling I got from listening to HP folks at the HHC2004 in San Jose. That meeting was akin to running into an old veteran actor or actorss who gave a talk about the good old days when he/she was hot in the acting business.

Namir

                              
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #10 Posted by VPN on 31 Mar 2005, 1:34 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by Namir

% profit of the calcs are great
unfortunately profit/unit is not that great
the worst is that HP does not sell batteries
you can sell inkjets with loss and rip off with inks

ÏBM sold PC business - why? No profit!
[VPN]

            
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #11 Posted by Giancarlo on 30 Mar 2005, 11:27 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by Katie

Mmmmmmh..... Don't know why I'm having a bad presentiment for the hope of "HP calc resurrection"... Maybe because I'm quite familiar with "marketing drones" working in my company.... Cheers. Giancarlo

                  
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #12 Posted by VPN on 30 Mar 2005, 11:42 a.m.,
in response to message #11 by Giancarlo

The correct terms is "markedroid"
(-:
[VPN]

                        
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #13 Posted by Giancarlo on 31 Mar 2005, 1:11 a.m.,
in response to message #12 by VPN

VPN, so you got to know them well, didn't you...? :-))) Cheers. Giancarlo

      
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #14 Posted by Wayne Brown on 30 Mar 2005, 11:10 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Jim Creybohm

Quote:
Just another marketting drone? An engineering type?

Everything I've heard or read about him has been in reference to his accomplishments in the area of stock prices or other financial stuff -- nothing about any love of technology or engineering for its own sake. So, my guess would be "marketing drone."

            
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #15 Posted by bill platt on 31 Mar 2005, 10:20 a.m.,
in response to message #14 by Wayne Brown

How about, "Financial Finegler"

                  
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #16 Posted by Gene on 31 Mar 2005, 11:41 a.m.,
in response to message #15 by bill platt

Hey...I resemble that remark. :-)

Gene (finance guy)

                        
Re: HP's new CEO
Message #17 Posted by bill platt on 31 Mar 2005, 11:51 a.m.,
in response to message #16 by Gene

Hi Gene!

Yes, you resemble the financial part, but more importantly, are you a *finegler* ;-)

Best regards,

Bill

1111 to delete (Gene)

                              
Biting the hand you want to feed you
Message #18 Posted by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr. on 2 Apr 2005, 10:04 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by bill platt

Let us suppose that the new CEO reads this series of messages. Why would he want to have anything to do with a customer base made up of individuals who bite the hand they hope will feed them?

                                    
Re: Biting the hand you want to feed you
Message #19 Posted by Ed Look on 2 Apr 2005, 11:09 p.m.,
in response to message #18 by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr.

Kudos to you sir! You have brought out a valid moral point. Unfortunately, humanity appears to be a kvetcher by nature.

                                          
Re: Biting the hand you want to feed you
Message #20 Posted by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr. on 3 Apr 2005, 12:04 a.m.,
in response to message #19 by Ed Look

Matthew 7:7 says "Ask, and it shall be given to you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you."

I would add "Bitch and whine and you will be avoided like the plague."

                                                
Re: Biting the hand you want to feed you
Message #21 Posted by Ed Look on 3 Apr 2005, 3:57 p.m.,
in response to message #20 by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr.

LOL!

Great line. I hope someday to hear it on Sunday from the pulpit! It is, alas, all too true.

                                    
Re: Biting the hand you want to feed you
Message #22 Posted by Wayne Brown on 3 Apr 2005, 1:26 a.m.,
in response to message #18 by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr.

It depends on his viewpoint. If all he cares about is how much money his customer base brings in, then he'll ignore us no matter what we say; there aren't enough of us to make any real difference in the bottom line. If he cares less about money than about impressing scientists and engineers who use the products -- if he's the kind of person who says, "Who cares about profits, as long as the techies respect and admire us" -- the kind of person that I would love to see running HP -- then he'll pay attention and try to act in such a way as to change our perceptions.

                                          
Re: Biting the hand you want to feed you
Message #23 Posted by . on 3 Apr 2005, 4:15 a.m.,
in response to message #22 by Wayne Brown

"Who cares about profits, as long as the techies respect and admire us"

I'm not sure thats a great attitude for a CEO to have. His job is to help make profits. The main purpose of a company is to profit.

I don't endorse the 'profit at all costs' mentality, but all decisions must take economics strongly into consideration.

.

                                                
Re: Biting the hand you want to feed you
Message #24 Posted by Ed Look on 3 Apr 2005, 3:56 p.m.,
in response to message #23 by .

Yeah, they gotta eat...

... albeit too well at times...

                                                
Re: Biting the hand you want to feed you
Message #25 Posted by Wayne Brown on 4 Apr 2005, 11:05 a.m.,
in response to message #23 by .

Quote:
I'm not sure thats a great attitude for a CEO to have. His job is to help make profits. The main purpose of a company is to profit.

That's fine for an ordinary company, but as I 've said before, I don't consider Hewlett-Packard an ordinary company, but something unique -- different from any other company that ever was or ever will be. I see it primarily as a living memorial to Bill & Dave, and secondarily as a sort of playground for the engineers in the HP R&D labs, and everything else (especially profits) comes third. That's why I think they should not have spun off the test & measurements division, and why they should keep making their traditional lines of test equiment, calculators and HP3000 minicomputers, even if those products lose money and their divisions have to be subsidized with profits from the other divisions (like the one that makes those expensive inkjet and laser toner cartridges). As long as they make enough money to keep the doors open, that's good enough.

                                                      
Re: Biting the hand you want to feed you
Message #26 Posted by James M. Prange (Michigan) on 4 Apr 2005, 5:30 p.m.,
in response to message #25 by Wayne Brown

Quote:
I see it primarily as a living memorial to Bill & Dave, and secondarily as a sort of playground for the engineers in the HP R&D labs, and everything else (especially profits) comes third.
I expect that most of the current owners (stockholders) see profit as the primary (or only) reason for the existence of HP. Unfortunately, most stockholders and directors seem to take a very short-term view; never mind what shape the corporation will be in five, ten, or twenty years from now; what will the next quarter's, or maybe next year's, situation be?

CEOs and other top management types tend to move on to a "new opportunites" after a relatively short time, so they also tend to have a short-term outlook. Maximise their salary and bonuses while they're there, and if the company is facing disaster after they leave, well, that's someone else's problem, isn't it? I would that Carly had seen a "better opportunity" at some other corporation.

We wish that Bill & Dave, or someone much like them, were still in charge at HP, but I expect that most stockholders, if they even know who Bill & Dave were, regard them as ancient (and mostly irrelevant) history. What has HP done lately? Is owning HP stock likely to result in a good (short-term) profit?

As for the engineers, does their playing around produce something that's likely to produce a good profit in the immediate future? If not, those in charge are likely to see them as a millstone around the corporate neck. Hey, the quality assurance department is a bunch of expensive nay-sayers who don't produce a damn thing; let's get rid of them too. And who cares about the "factory rats" who are actually producing something? Let's outsource production to the lowest bidder. Let's outsource design too; whoever's willing to work for the lowest cost. As long as the ones who sit in well-padded chairs behind big desks in nice offices are happy, that's all that matters, right? And when it looks as if it's all about to hit the fan, surely there'll be another company to plunder; time to move on to "another opportunity".

When a company announces a big layoff, I personally see that as a sign that's something's gone very wrong and it's in trouble, but note that the stock price commonly goes up with such news.

Yes, I think that spinning off Agilent was ultimately bad for all concerned; I expect that HP and Agilent would be stronger together than they are apart. I wish that the calculator part of the corporation had gone to Agilent, but I can see the logic of lumping it with computers, printers, and such "office machines".

I wish that HP would sell the calculator division to Agilent. I expect that there'd be a return to high quality, both design quality and production quality. (That said, note that earlier models had their weak points too.) I'm convinced that a line of high quality calculators could be an important "profit center", but with HP's recent offerings, it's on the road to being a "loss center"; from my experience with the 49g+, I'm not likely to be an "early adopter" of any new "bleeding edge" calculator. "Brand loyalty" may carry a company for a while, but customers also remember bad experiences for a very long time. But who knows? With the change in management, maybe, just maybe, HP might start doing things right.

As for the new CEO, I know very little about him. I gather that NCR has done okay under his leadership, and there's certainly nothing wrong with making a profit. Certainly giving Carly her walking papers strikes me as the best news from HP that I've heard in a long time. Will Mark Hurd turn things around and make the "HP Invent" logo meaningful? I don't know, I just hope for the best.

Regards,
James

                                          
Re: Biting the hand you want to feed you
Message #27 Posted by Garth Wilson on 4 Apr 2005, 12:47 a.m.,
in response to message #22 by Wayne Brown

I don't know the story behind HP and Agilent splitting up, but I expect there was some disagreement about where the potential for continued profit lies, with HP siding with the consumer market and Agilent siding with the scientist/engineer market. Maybe we should be looking to Agilent instead of HP to pick up again the good thing HP had going in the 80's.

                                    
Re: Biting the hand you want to feed you
Message #28 Posted by bill platt on 4 Apr 2005, 9:40 a.m.,
in response to message #18 by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr.

Hi Palmer,

I understand the idea that one should be nice to your feed-master if one is to eat, yet there are very important exceptions to this rule.

1. When you the hand that is feeding you is actually poisoning you.

2. When the hand that feeds you is also your slave-master.

In either case, it is best to bite and move on--which is my opinion of the HP we are now dealing with. Yes, it is nice that there is a 33s, but I am much more excited about openRPN.

For HP, the calulators are a proud, if quaint, piece of history. That they stay in the market at all is quite remarkable--I think it must be that there are some people--like Fred Valdez--still have real interest--and have been able to turn enough of a profit--at low overhead--to keep the division in action. THis is a point we do not often hear discussed in this forum--that there are strong allies at HP to this day. To that extent, we should support them.

But as far as CEO's go, I think cynicism is the only appropriate reaction today. They are, in my opinion, worth nothing but dirt until they have actually proven themselves in the business. (After Enron, Worldcom, Adelphia, Anderson.....what else is an honest person to do?!).

Regards,

Bill

                                          
Re: Biting the hand you want to feed you
Message #29 Posted by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr. on 4 Apr 2005, 10:27 p.m.,
in response to message #28 by bill platt

You write "In either case, it is best to bite and move on--..." That can be a good idea, but only if one has a place to move on to. Where might that be?

                                                
Re: Biting the hand you want to feed you
Message #30 Posted by bill platt on 5 Apr 2005, 10:06 a.m.,
in response to message #29 by Palmer O. Hanson, Jr.

Hi Palmer,

1. OpenRPN 2. Hydrix 3. Abundant used machines.

I am not afraid of losing HP anymore. We already did, when the y originally cancelled the 32sii with no replacement. As a result, the 32sii went up to 150 bucks--no higher--and there were plenty of them.

Someone will fill in the void.

Also, RPN itself is not the end-all be-all. So, I can get along without it.

Regards,

Bill


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