HP Forum Archive 14

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HP Integral PC Info Message #1 Posted by Andre Koppel on 24 Mar 2005, 7:58 p.m. Hi all, some time ago I have purchased a fully working HP IPC on Ebay. I have replaced the broken floppy with a fully renewed replacement (same type) and meanwhile I got some copies of the floppies. But because I don't have any manual, I have absolutely no idea how to access the programs on the floppies. I don't know a way to use the PAM to start anything usefull. Is there anyone who can give me a hint? An additional question. Is there anyone who has a copy of the HP Journal Oct 1985 (can't be found at HP). Kind regards Andre

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #2 Posted by Les Bell [Sydney] on 25 Mar 2005, 6:35 p.m., in response to message #1 by Andre Koppel Andre, take a look at http://www.coho.org/~pete/IPC/integral.html as a starting point. In order to use programs on floppy, you'll need to mount the floppy - essentially you'd use the same command to do this as modern UNIXen and Linux. I'm not sure what the mount point would be, though; I only used an Integral briefly when they were first introduced. Best, --- Les Bell [http://www.lesbell.com.au]

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #3 Posted by Vassilis Prevelakis on 26 Mar 2005, 8:41 p.m., in response to message #2 by Les Bell [Sydney] Les Bell [Sydney] wrote: > In order to use programs on floppy, you'll need to mount the floppy Actually it is not necessary to mount the floppy, the system detects that you have inserted a floppy and mounts it automatically. Each floppy has a volume label, and the system automatically mounts it in a directory with the same name as the volume label. So if you insert a floppy with a volume label of foo, it will be mounted in /foo **vp

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #4 Posted by Andre Koppel on 27 Mar 2005, 10:42 a.m., in response to message #3 by Vassilis Prevelakis Hi Vassilis, you are right. The internal Disk-Drive wasn't able to detect the disk, but an externel 9122D works quite well with the IPC and the both disks are mounted. But what must be to format a HPIB-Harddisk. I have a spare one and I want to copy all the disks to the HD? Kind regards Andre

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #5 Posted by Vassilis Prevelakis on 27 Mar 2005, 11:29 a.m., in response to message #4 by Andre Koppel Connect the external HP-IB hard drive and look in /dev to see the name(s) assigned to the hard drive. Then use the format_disc utility (int he Utilities diskette) to format it. I hope this is correct because its been ages since I formatted my hard disk. **vp

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #6 Posted by Andre Koppel on 28 Mar 2005, 4:16 a.m., in response to message #5 by Vassilis Prevelakis Hi Vassilie, thanks for the HP-Journal Article. I have searched for it, but not found it until today :-) Another question concerning an HP9133 Hard Disk Drive. I have a spare one and want to use it for the IPC. But whatever i try to select on the address switch, the drive wasn't detected by the IPC. A HP9122 dual disk drive was seen by the IPC within /dev, but not the HP9133. Do you have an idea what must be changed? There is an IP-address selector and okay I know about IB-addressing, I hvae tried several addresses. And on the back of the HP9133 there is an additional selector with positions numbered 0-9. I have no idea what this means.

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #7 Posted by Vasilis Prevelakis on 28 Mar 2005, 11:40 p.m., in response to message #6 by Andre Koppel There are many different models in the 9133 family and they are VERY different between each other. Early ones are amigo, while later ones are CS-80. I have a 9133H connected to my IPC. I have the manual for this drive but it is written by brain dead people (whenever a manual starts with "Don't let the terminology scare you", you know that the manual is not worth the paper its printed on). Anyway it says zip about the configuration switch other than "it changes disc formatting". Thanks! Anyway the setting that works for me is Configuration switch in position 1, address in position 0. With these settings, I get: /dev/A built-in floppy /dev/D000 9133H hard drive /dev/D001 9133H floppy **vp

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #8 Posted by Andre Koppel on 12 Apr 2005, 10:23 a.m., in response to message #5 by Vassilis Prevelakis Vassilis, meanwhile I have received a still working HP7597 Hard Disk drive. The IPC was able to detect the drive(it is shown in /dev). I also have a bunch of floppy disks. But no one of the disks contains a format utility (the utilities disk contains some other tools). I have found the disk images at http://www.coho.org/~pete/IPC/images.html but I wasn't able to generate disks from the images. I have tried original HP-floppies from the 80ies (double sided, non high density). But neither Linux (using dd) nor Windows (using rawritewin) was able to write the images to the disks. Do you have an idea on how to create disks from the images?

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #9 Posted by Vassilis Prevelakis on 12 Apr 2005, 12:38 p.m., in response to message #8 by Andre Koppel I use an original double sided double density PC disk drive connected to a Unix system (OpenBSD). I then use the Unix utility dd to copy the image to the drive. You may be able to use Tony Duell's LIFDUMP utility instead http://www.hpcc.org/datafile/hpil/lif_utils.html although the IPC floppies are NOT LIF. **vp

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #10 Posted by Tony Duell on 30 Mar 2005, 1:17 p.m., in response to message #4 by Andre Koppel If you have an HP device that used the original full-height Sony drives (HP9122, HP9123, HP9133, HP9114A, Integral, etc), then you MUST strip down the eject mechanism and regrease it. If you don't there's a very real risk that it won't latch up properly and when you try to eject a disk, the upper head will catch in the disk and be ripped off its mounting. The only cure for that is to replace the head carriage assembly and do a full alignment. Needless to say this is a lot more work... Basically, you take the drive out of the machine and remove the mounting brackets. Take off the top cover (1 screw), the logic board (3 screws and connectors), the front panel if fitted (it isn't in the Integral), then the eject damper (1 screw, rear left of the drive), the head load solenoid/bracket (2 screws) and finally the disk holder itself (4 screws). That then comes apart by removing 1 more screw and slipping off the E-circlips. Clean off all the old grease using a suitable solvent and apply a _trace_ of new grease. Put it all back together. One other point: High density disks do not work in these drives. Not only is the coercivity wrong, but the disk-inserted sensor lines up with the HD-detect hole, so it's not operated. The result is that the drive thinks it doesn't have a disk installed.

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #11 Posted by Andre Koppel on 31 Mar 2005, 7:58 a.m., in response to message #10 by Tony Duell You are right, I have killed one drive this way. Now If I get a new system, first of all I disassemble the disk drive, cleaning it completely (lot of work) and most of the time it works if everything was made well. Additionally the heads of my IPC must be cleaned by an antioxidant. After I have done this, I was able to read the disk that I have received from Joe. Now I am trying to get a 9133 HD (or similiar) running. I have two pieces, but both of them are not detected by the IPC. An 9122 double disk drive was detected, but not the HD. I have tried everything, but not found a way (possibly the HDs are broken)

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #12 Posted by Vassilis Prevelakis on 31 Mar 2005, 12:58 p.m., in response to message #11 by Andre Koppel a) you did not mention which TYPE of 9133 you have. The front label will prob. just say 9133, but the back label should include the letter designation. I assume you have the 9133H but I am only guessing. b) When you power up the 9133 what is the behaviour of the two LEDs in the front of the drive? **vp

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #13 Posted by Andre Koppel on 1 Apr 2005, 1:19 a.m., in response to message #12 by Vassilis Prevelakis Hi Vassilis, both drives that I have tried are 9133H type drives from 1986 (if HP-numbering within serial numbers follows the know scheme). Both drives do need a while until they get running. Beginning with a red light that changes to yellow. The yellow LED looks correct for me because I have removed the floppy drive (it's broken). I have removed a floppy drive from another HP9133 in the past, the HD has worked quite well even with yellow a LED indicator, showing that's something wrong. For me it looks like if there is no red LED indicator, everything is quite well. Kind regards Andre

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #14 Posted by Vassilis Prevelakis on 2 Apr 2005, 2:19 p.m., in response to message #13 by Andre Koppel There are two LEDs the RED (fault) and the YELLOW (access). It looks strange that the access LED is always on. Why did you remove the floppy? Mine is also broken, but I have left it in and simply not use it. For normal operation, both LEDs should be off with the YELLOW one coming on when there are accesses to the disc. **vp

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #15 Posted by Andre Koppel on 3 Apr 2005, 12:02 a.m., in response to message #14 by Vassilis Prevelakis The floppy drive of one 9133 now works as replacement drive within another 9133 and the other floppy drive of a 9133 works as a replacement drive within an integral pc. The replacement drives are running quite well, but I have simply not put the broken drives into the 9133. While the floppy drive of one of my used 9133 was removed, the hd has worked quite well (even with a yellow LED glowing all the time). So I think there is no problem, running these combo drived with a floppy drive removed. Regards Andre

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #16 Posted by Vassilis Prevelakis on 3 Apr 2005, 5:18 a.m., in response to message #15 by Andre Koppel Andre Koppel wrote: > While the floppy drive of one of my used 9133 was removed, the hd > has worked quite well (even with a yellow LED glowing all > the time). So I think there is no problem, running these > combo drived with a floppy drive removed. I went and removed the floppy drive from my 9133H. The yellow LED indeed stays always on. Despite this, the IPC recognises the drive and mounts the partition. I assume that you have tried the 9133H with another computer and it works OK. I am completely perplexed. **vp

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #17 Posted by Les Bell [Sydney] on 27 Mar 2005, 7:22 p.m., in response to message #3 by Vassilis Prevelakis Good call, Vassilis. HP lent me an Integral for review when it was first released, around 20 years ago. Sure wish I had one now. . . . Best, --- Les [http://www.lesbell.com.au]

Mounting disc on IPC Message #18 Posted by Joe Panico on 29 Mar 2005, 8:00 p.m., in response to message #3 by Vassilis Prevelakis Actually, Les and Vassilis are both correct. The first release of the IPC was a mix resembling UNIX System 3. That required the mount disc to run. An upgrade, System V made the mount disc automatic. I wound up with both versions after I returned the computer for repair and HP gave me a System V module. I always ran V. Joe

Re: HP Integral PC Info Message #19 Posted by Vassilis Prevelakis on 26 Mar 2005, 8:36 p.m., in response to message #1 by Andre Koppel The October 1985 HP Journal that discusses the Integral PC is at http://www.series80.org/Misc/HP-Journal-IPC **vp

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