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HP Forum Archive 14

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HP-21 trivia
Message #1 Posted by Eric Smith on 21 Feb 2005, 7:22 p.m.

I haven't used an HP-21 in many years. Now that I have it running in Nonpareil, I noticed something interesting about it. Pressing the shift key (blue) terminates digit entry. I didn't recall seeing that on other HPs, but it turns out that the HP-80 does it as well, though the HP-45 and HP-55 do not.

      
Re: HP-21 trivia
Message #2 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 21 Feb 2005, 8:27 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Eric Smith

Similar on the (real) HP-33C:
Pressing one of the shift keys 'terminates' digit entry.
You can't toggle the shift.

Raymond

            
Re: HP-21 trivia
Message #3 Posted by Eric Smith on 21 Feb 2005, 9:06 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Raymond Del Tondo

Actually on the HP-33C pressing the shift does not terminate digit entry. It's the key you press AFTER the shift that does that. But there's an exception to that: you can hit "f CLEAR PREFIX" or "g f CLEAR PREFIX" without terminating digit entry.

The way I originally noticed on the HP-21 is that if you're in he default FIX 2, press "1" then the blue shift, the display changes to "1.00", indicating that digit entry has been terminated. Same on the HP-80. I haven't checked the HP-70 or HP-22, but I don't think any HPs introduced in 1976 or later behave that way.

                  
Re: HP-21 trivia - HP-25
Message #4 Posted by Marcus von Cube on 22 Feb 2005, 2:34 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by Eric Smith

On an HP-25, neither shift key terminates digit entry but "f clear prefix" does. So once the shift keys are pressed, there is no way back.

                  
Re: HP-21 trivia
Message #5 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 22 Feb 2005, 2:48 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by Eric Smith

You're right. I forgot the Clear Prefix;-)

Raymond

      
Re: Nonpareil not trivia (at least for me)
Message #6 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 22 Feb 2005, 9:17 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Eric Smith

I am not a PC programmer (IBM host only, FORTRAN, REXX, Pipe under VM/ESA) so I just tried Nonpareil 0.44 under Cygwin. And failed. Well, I have not a complete Cygwin, only what is needed to _run_ a well known host emulator and to compile the last HP49-CAS. So what I get is

make: *** No rule to make target `glib.h', needed by `debugger.d'. Stop.

Any hint? TIA.....Mike

            
Re: Nonpareil not trivia (at least for me)
Message #7 Posted by Eric Smith on 22 Feb 2005, 1:47 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by Mike (Stgt)

Yes, you need to have the GTK+ toolkit (version 2.x), and the associated GDK and Glib libraries installed, as well as several others they depend on.

Building Nonpareil to run on Windows is quite a hassle. I plan to sell the Windows version in the future, but it's not quite ready yet. There will be a free demo that has only a few calculator models and doesn't save state.

Implementing not saving state is really easy since I don't have any code to save/restore state yet. That's one of the things I need to complete for the version I'll sell.

                  
Re: Nonpareil under Cygwin
Message #8 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 23 Feb 2005, 4:21 a.m.,
in response to message #7 by Eric Smith

Hello Eric!

First and foremost: let me express my highest esteem for your published work. It makes me a bit envious, how much time you have to care for all those ancient gems. Tonite I read your paper presented at the HHC 2004 conference in San Jose, California on 26-SEP-2004 and was a bit sad it was only 19 pages: this story of success should continue.

Next: I tried to augment my quite incomplete Cygwin (limited just to run an S/390 emulator) with this and that. But still no final success. For Nonpareil I looked for a recipe similar to step 13 in this one. I hope to find some time next weekend to continue with your Nonpareil.

Ciao.....Mike

                        
Re: Nonpareil under Cygwin
Message #9 Posted by Eric Smith on 23 Feb 2005, 12:29 p.m.,
in response to message #8 by Mike (Stgt)

Sorry I can't offer detailed help with Cygwin. If the Cygwin installer knows about GTK+ 2.x, installing that might get you everything you need.

                        
Re: Nonpareil under Cygwin
Message #10 Posted by Eric Smith on 23 Feb 2005, 12:31 p.m.,
in response to message #8 by Mike (Stgt)

Forgot to mention that under Cygwin you would have to have the X server installed as well (XFree86 or x.org).

                              
Re: Nonpareil under Cygwin
Message #11 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 24 Feb 2005, 6:39 a.m.,
in response to message #10 by Eric Smith

Tnx a lot. I'll try.

Ciao.....Mike

                              
Re: Nonpareil under Cygwin
Message #12 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 24 Feb 2005, 10:05 a.m.,
in response to message #10 by Eric Smith

Seems I have to deeper into Cygwin: there is a GTK+ and GTK2, but no GTK+2. Currently I play with "your" Woodstock ROMs in my NutEm.

Ciao.....Mike

                                    
Re: Nonpareil under Cygwin
Message #13 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 24 Feb 2005, 11:33 a.m.,
in response to message #12 by Mike (Stgt)

Hehe, it makes not much sense, but just for fun: 

DMSLIO740I Execution begins...                 
HP-41CX Emulation V1R1M5                       
0000: 120 ?P=Q                                 
0001: 033 JNC    +06 0007                      
0002: 03B JNC    +07 0009                      
0009: 25F JC     -35 FFD4                      
000A: 3CB JNC    -07 0003                      
0003: 047 JC     +08 000B                      
0004: 1E7 JC     +3C 0040                      
0005: 1EF JC     +3D 0042                      
0006: 1FB JNC    +3F 0045                      
0045: 108 SF     8                             
0046: 148 SF     6                             
0047: 2F2 ?C#0   PQ                            
0048: 04B JNC    +09 0051                      
0049: 1AE A=A-1  ALL                           
004A: 3FA ASL    M                             
004B: 09A B=A    M                             
Nicht erlaubter Modifier in Subclass F:        7
004C: 1FC                                      
Ready;

Thats the HP34C ROM in NutEm. May be a X-compiler from Woodstock to Nut and some fidling with display and keybord will do.

Ciao.....Mike

                                    
Re: Nonpareil under Cygwin
Message #14 Posted by Eric Smith on 24 Feb 2005, 11:51 a.m.,
in response to message #12 by Mike (Stgt)

Use GTK2.

                                          
Re: Nonpareil under Cygwin
Message #15 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 25 Feb 2005, 6:00 a.m.,
in response to message #14 by Eric Smith

Hello Eric!

I added this and that to Cygwin, no more errors from GCC, but now this: 

make: *** No rule to make target `vte/vte.h', needed by `debugger.d'.  Stop.
Something missing in nonpareil-0.44.tar.gz?

Ah - sorry -- no. There is a VTE in Linux but not within Cygwin. Grrrr - .. -- I continue .. - .

Ciao.....Mike

Edited: 25 Feb 2005, 6:15 a.m.

                                                
Re: Nonpareil under Cygwin
Message #16 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 25 Feb 2005, 9:53 a.m.,
in response to message #15 by Mike (Stgt)

1837   L06376:  .1.1.1..1.
error in file hp80.asm line 1838: syntax error
1838   L06377:  .1.1111111  -> L063137
error in file hp80.asm line 1839: syntax error
1839
error in file hp80.asm line 1840: syntax error
Pass 2 rom 0 1 2 3 4 5 6
1830 errors, 0 warnings
rm -f hp80
ln -s nonpareil hp80
rm -f hp25
ln -s nonpareil hp25
rm -f hp32e
ln -s nonpareil hp32e
rm -f hp33c
ln -s nonpareil hp33c
rm -f hp37e
ln -s nonpareil hp37e
rm -f hp41cv
ln -s nonpareil hp41cv

Just the last lines after several seconds of errors scrolling. Now what???

Nice WE.....Mike

                                                      
Re: Nonpareil under Cygwin
Message #17 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 11 Mar 2005, 3:21 a.m.,
in response to message #16 by Mike (Stgt)

"If anything else fails read instructions." This quote helped once more <G>. I may now run Nonpareil (see http://nonpareil.brouhaha.com) on WinXP using Cygwin. Very impressing! All those elder HP calcs emulated.

Alas I currently can not give a simple recipe what you realy need to install for Cygwin. I used a "brute force" method to make it work and regard it as a stochastical foreordination that MAKE did it. Next I found that Nonpareil expects all files stored in Unix style.

ASAP I'll restart from Zero and log all steps to make Nonpareil work on a windozed PC. IMHO it's worth the effort.

Ciao.....Mike

                                                            
Re: Nonpareil under Cygwin
Message #18 Posted by tony on 11 Mar 2005, 5:45 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Mike (Stgt)

Mike, Congratulations!

                                                                  
Re: Nonpareil under Cygwin
Message #19 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 14 Mar 2005, 5:02 a.m.,
in response to message #18 by tony

Hello Tony!

Thank you 4 the flowers. I deinstalled Cygwin yesterday to start from zero, if you don't mind I send you a recipe what you need to compile and run Nonpareil. As I am _not_ a Cygwin guru I'd like your confirmation before I put it online (my recipe, not Nonpareil).

Or is there someone else out there who may tell about the do's and dont's of Nonpareil under Cygwin?

Ciao.....Mike

                                                                        
Re: Nonpareil under Cygwin
Message #20 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 14 Mar 2005, 11:38 a.m.,
in response to message #19 by Mike (Stgt)

Please post your findings here!! (and thank you in advance for your effort!)

                                                                              
Re: Nonpareil under Cygwin
Message #21 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 15 Mar 2005, 7:45 a.m.,
in response to message #20 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina)

Yes, of cause, but pls let my finding be confirmed. There are still two steps of 15 that are for sure _not_ the canonical way to go.

Ciao.....Mike

                                                                                    
I see an and Hp34/45/55 on my screen!!!!!
Message #22 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 17 Mar 2005, 8:43 a.m.,
in response to message #21 by Mike (Stgt)

"I see an and Hp34/45/55 on my screen!!!!!"

Tony! Thank you very much for your help.

All others: I have to correct my recipe how to run the classic HP calculators (HP-35, HP-80, HP-45 and so on - those machines that layed the foundations for HP's name for pocket calculators) on a windozed PC using E. Smith's Nonpareil. ASAP I'll shouw you the corrected recipe, I want to restart once again from Zero to count the MBs you need to install - so everybody may decide if it's worth the effort.

Ciao.....Mike

                                                                                          
and, and HP-80!
Message #23 Posted by Tony (nz) on 17 Mar 2005, 8:14 p.m.,
in response to message #22 by Mike (Stgt)

Mike, The HP-80 appears to run perfectly!

I must have downloaded about 60-70 MB in total, but I picked up a little extra by way of source code and also I think I got vim, and I was tempted by a few gnome ganes<G>. On installation that expands to about 230MB here.

Your instructions worked flawlessly here :-) Thanks for your work!

Cheers, Tony

                                                                                                
still not perfect
Message #24 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 18 Mar 2005, 3:55 a.m.,
in response to message #23 by Tony (nz)

Hi Tony!

I am not convinced of my recipe as last nite I restarted from Zero again and failed. Yes, there are nearly 14,000 files to install that sum up to about 200 MB (the download is much less as it's packed). So to run Nonpareil on a windozed PC is something for the HP-mad.

Anyway - it's great fun to have a working HP-35 on the screen.

Ciao.....Mike

                                                                                                      
NOW! Here we go...
Message #25 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 21 Mar 2005, 3:13 a.m.,
in response to message #24 by Mike (Stgt)

See here for my recipe how to run Nonpareil (at least part of it) under Cygwin on a "windozed" PC.

Ciao.....Mike

                                                                                                            
Re: NOW! Here we go...
Message #26 Posted by VPN on 21 Mar 2005, 8:55 a.m.,
in response to message #25 by Mike (Stgt)

I still could not get it work
I have a WInXP Pro + SP2
Has anyone done a minimal installation of Cygwin & Nonpareil?
I would love to have a detailed and tested installation
Just run a package and it will install.
Anyone?
[VPN]
PS: I'm starting to hate pinquins...

                                                                                                                  
Re: NOW! Here we go...
Message #27 Posted by Mike (Stgt) on 21 Mar 2005, 11:31 a.m.,
in response to message #26 by VPN

Where does my recipe fail?

M.

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