HP Forum Archive 14

[ Return to Index | Top of Index ]

Which HPs have RPN ? Message #1 Posted by Martin on 2 Dec 2004, 3:01 a.m. Dear List Can any of you experts provide an overview of: "Which of the HP calcylaturs uses/can use RPN?" Best Regards Martin

Any specific period in time? Message #2 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 2 Dec 2004, 4:59 a.m., in response to message #1 by Martin Hi, Martin; I'm adding this question because at a certain point, just a few HP calculators since the HP35 were not RPN only. If I am not wrong, only after the Voyagers that HP offered pocket algebraic calculators. If we consider the earlier desktop models (HP9xxx), the initial page at the MoHPC counts the story: 9100A/B and 9810A being first and second generation RPN models, 9830A being also programmable in BASIC (algebraic operation to follow the programming language or vice-versa?), 9805 an algebraic statistics, the HP9815A/B being the third generation RPN and so on. Except for the "adding machine" HP10 and the wrist watch HP01, all of these "species" are RPN: the Classic models (HP45, 35, 80, 70, 65, etc), Woodstock series (67, 97, 21, 22, 25...), the Spice series (HP31E, 32E, 33E/C, 34C, 37E and 38E/C), the HP41 (all models) and the voyager series (HP10C, 11C, 12C, 15C and 16C). Some pocket/portable models are not RPN, but I believe they are taken as handheld computers, like the HP75C/D (series 80 portable with LCD), the HP71B and the HP94, being these BASIC machines (although BASIC is a programmable language and not necessarily a keystroke user interface; you can use the HP71 or the HP57 as an algebraic calculator without the need for programming, right?) Both the HP18C (financial algebraic) and the HP28C (RPN, scientific) introduced the RPL platform, and after these ones we had the Pioneers, with some interesting algebraic models, like the scientific models HP20S, HP22S, HP27S (do everything, like its predecessor, the HP27) and financial models like the HP10B, HP14B, HP17B and HP19B. The RPN pioneers are the HP32S, 32SII (with algebraic expression capabilities) and the HP42S. Although the HP28C/S and the HP48 series allow algebraic expression evaluation, they are essentially RPL models, considered by HP as the evolution from RPN (I bought that idea) while some RPN users do not accept it as truth (I respect them, some points are valid). There are also the HP38G, 39G and 40G, all algebraicmodels. Anyway, after these ones, a mix of "RPN/Algebric selectable" models became available: the financial models HP19BII, HP17BII, HP12C Platinum and the scientific models HP33S and the HP49G/G+. These units perform either RPN or algebraic operations as the user wishes to. Well, I wrote about 90% of this by heart, I read a bit about the desktop series I'm not familiar with and the earlier Pioneer algebraic units, so I accept the possibility of adding wrong, not accurate info and missing some particular model, sorry! If I have the time to correct any existing errors, I'll do that prior to additional posts. Hope this gives you a glimpse... Cheers. Luiz (Brazil) Edited: 2 Dec 2004, 12:50 p.m.

Re: Any specific period in time? Message #3 Posted by Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz on 2 Dec 2004, 10:20 p.m., in response to message #2 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) That's a great summary from Luiz! I'd like to ask exactly what Martin, the original questioner, wants. Plenty of people have listed RPN, algebraic, and mixed models, on their web sites (such as this one), in newsgroup articles, and even in books - naming no names :-) Does the questioner want to know all the models that _can_ use RPN? In that case, we could add the HP-71B, since the HP-41 emulator module for it adds RPN capabilities, and the HP-75 models, since these could be programmed in Basic to run an RPN calculator program. The FORTH programming language, which uses RPN, is also available for both. On the other hand, the HP-18C and the HP19B have RPL built in, but do not make it available to the casual user - you have to break into their internal software to to use RPL, and hence RPN. And does Martin include the larger desktop calculators, beginning with the HP9100 models, or only handhelds, when asking about "calculators"?

did i forget any? Message #4 Posted by db(martinez,california) on 2 Dec 2004, 10:19 p.m., in response to message #1 by Martin I included RPL but did not figure that the RPN calculators in the 95, 100, & 200 would count. Do they? Anyway, like luiz said, but in list form: hp 10c hp 11c hp 12c hp12c Platinum hp 15c hp 16c hp 17 BII hp 19c hp 19bii hp 21 hp 22 hp 25 hp 25c hp 27 hp 28C hp 28S hp 29c hp 31e hp 32e hp 32s hp 32sii hp 33e hp 33c hp 33s hp 34c hp 35 hp 37e hp 38e hp 38c hp 41C hp 41CV hp 41CX hp 42s hp 45 hp 46 hp 48s hp 48sx hp 48g hp 48gx hp 48gii hp 49G+ hp 55 hp 65 hp 67 hp 70 hp 80 hp 81 hp 91 hp 92 hp 95c hp 97 hp 97s hp 9100 a & b hp 9810 hp 9815 a & s

Re: did i forget any? Message #5 Posted by Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz on 2 Dec 2004, 10:33 p.m., in response to message #4 by db(martinez,california) Well, I guess you should add the HP48G+ and the HP49G to your otherwise very comprehensive list :-)

Re: did i forget any? Message #6 Posted by db(martinez,california) on 2 Dec 2004, 11:58 p.m., in response to message #5 by Wlodek Mier-Jedrzejowicz And so i should. Thanks. BTW: I read that copy of RCL 20 i got from you in San Jose. It was a good read, and will be again in a few years.

Re: did i forget any? Message #7 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 3 Dec 2004, 4:48 a.m., in response to message #4 by db(martinez,california) I feel the HP-71B + HP-41C Translator/FORTH ROM would also qualify. Once in 41C mode, you've got pure classical RPN right from the keyboard. Also, any 48/49 model or other HP calculators *emulating* RPN machines (such as the 41C or 42S) would qualify as well if fitted with the emulator. Come to think of it, you could compound it further: have a 48/49 model emulating the HP-71B plus HP-41C Translator/FORTH ROM (using, for instance, HP-71X by Hrastprogrammer), and then using RPN in the 41C mode of the emulated HP-71B. Though this seems overkill, it would run, and as the emulated 71B is 2x faster than the real thing, and the real 71B+Translator ROM is up to 12 times faster than a 41C, you'll end up having RPN at 20-24x the speed of a real 41C, despite one layer of true emulation and another of 'mere' simulation :-) Best regards from V.

Re: did i forget any? Message #8 Posted by Veli-Pekka Nousiainen on 3 Dec 2004, 6:19 a.m., in response to message #7 by Valentin Albillo You could compound it *even* further: have a Qonos emulating 49G model emulating the HP-71B plus HP-41C Translator/FORTH ROM (using, for instance, HP-71X by Hrastprogrammer), and then using RPN in the 41C mode of the emulated HP-71B in the emulated 49G *** NOTE: the 49g+ is already an ARM emulating a 49 *** BUT since it has *** A) not "host" operating system for the user *** B) only 128K ERAM, not allowing for the 71B ROM *** It does not qualify (IMO) [VPN]

Re: Which HPs have RPN ? Message #9 Posted by Martin on 3 Dec 2004, 5:04 a.m., in response to message #1 by Martin Thanks to all of you for most comprehensive and details ansvers... I see now that I could have been more specific in my question. Story is: I resently discovered that several of my colleges have old HP calculators in their position. Some of them is not used simply because they ran out of power and they can't get that lid open... I got an old HP21 as a gift, and presently know about a 41CX. Then I started thinking if I should collect as many as I could. But I don't want them if they don't work (I'll anounce these for give-away in this forum) And I only want them if they are RPN. My fingers refuse othervise. Therefore I wandered how many, and which, HP calc.s are RPN Thats all there is to it, but I still appresiate the very nice ansvers. Best Regards Martin Hvidberg

Re: Which HPs have RPN ? Message #10 Posted by valentino ducati on 3 Dec 2004, 8:18 a.m., in response to message #9 by Martin Interesting thread... @Martin If you really DON'T want a 27S at all; please remember me if you find one in a desk ! It is the only Pioneer algebraic I would buy, but ebay prices are prohibitive. @all, slightly joking off topic Speaking of emulators with RPN: Do you think a big multiprocessor server with Free42 (or similar) isntalled would count as "RPN calculator"? :-D

Re: Which HPs have RPN ? Message #11 Posted by Chan Tran on 3 Dec 2004, 10:57 a.m., in response to message #10 by valentino ducati Martin if you simply want to know among the calculators at your college are RPN, just look for the big ENTER key.

Re: Which HPs have RPN ? Message #12 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 3 Dec 2004, 11:10 a.m., in response to message #11 by Chan Tran ... save for the HP-80, which has a big SAVE key instead. Best regards from V. Edited: 3 Dec 2004, 11:14 a.m.

Re: Which HPs have RPN ? Message #13 Posted by Dave Shaffer on 3 Dec 2004, 11:15 a.m., in response to message #11 by Chan Tran Chan Tran, Unfortunately, a big ENTER key is NOT proof of RPN status. I learned this the hard way when I bought a 38G, based only on the picture shown in the eBay offering (and before, sob, I was aware of MoHPC, which would have set me straight!) At that time, I thought HP produced ONLY RPN models. I then compounded my error by buying a 30S, which also features a (not so large) ENTER key (with a tiny little = sign above it). I would not be surprised to find out that HP was banking on the fact that us old timers would see the ENTER key and assume that we were getting a RPN model!! Anybody else have thoughts on this? i.e. why didn't they feature prominently the = key, as on all other algebraic calculators?!?!

Re: Which HPs have RPN ? Message #14 Posted by Eddie Shore on 4 Dec 2004, 9:52 a.m., in response to message #1 by Martin Of the current models: 48GII, 49G+, 17BII+, 33S. I have all but the 48GII. I use the 49G+ daily. I believe anyone can use RPN (being an RPN convert two years ago)

Re: Which HPs have RPN ? Message #15 Posted by Ed Look on 5 Dec 2004, 12:32 a.m., in response to message #14 by Eddie Shore Some T.A. or professor in college turned me onto it; I forget which, or who. But that guy did me a big favor. It made college (and later) much easier. I've been a fan for... well, decades.

[ Return to Index | Top of Index ]

Go back to the main exhibit hall