HP Forum Archive 14

[ Return to Index | Top of Index ]

More NCEES restrictions on the way Message #1 Posted by Norris on 30 Sept 2004, 3:05 p.m. NCEES has announced that their calculator rules were changed at the August 2004 Annual Meeting. See page 7 here. The move was widely expected. A sentence was added to Exam Policy 15 (Materials Permitted in Examination Room), stating, “Only models of calculators as specified by NCEES are permitted in the examination room.” It is not yet known which models will be specified by NCEES, or when the new policy will take effect. Currently NCEES recognizes the HP 9G, 9S, 30S, 32S, 32SII, and 33S as "approved". The NCEES page on calculator policy (which is here), has not been updated to reflect the new policy. It therefore seems likely that other calculators, such as the 11C, 15C, or 20S, will still be legal for the October 2004 exams (as they were in April 2004). Most likely the new policy will take effect starting in April 2005, and the full details will not be announced until after the October 2004 exams.

Re: More NCEES restrictions on the way Message #2 Posted by Karl Schneider on 1 Oct 2004, 3:55 a.m., in response to message #1 by Norris Norris -- Thanks for the update on NCEES policies regarding calculators for exams. Quote: The NCEES page on calculator policy (which is here), has not been updated to reflect the new policy. It therefore seems likely that other calculators, such as the 11C, 15C, or 20S, will still be legal for the October 2004 exams (as they were in April 2004). Most likely the new policy will take effect starting in April 2005, and the full details will not be announced until after the October 2004 exams. You're probably right. I've been in contact with NCEES officeholders on the topic by phone and e-mail, and I seem to recall one officer mentioning that no change would be made for October. I notice your mention of the 11C, 15C, and 20S in two recent posts now. You might be interested that I submitted a one-page letter specficially advocating and justifying the inclusion of those three specific models on the eventual comprehensive "Approved" list. If you provide or point me to your e-mail or mailing address (or fax #), I'll send you a copy. Perhaps you can follow with your own missive to NCEES. Regards, -- KS

Re: More NCEES restrictions on the way Message #3 Posted by LH Chan on 1 Oct 2004, 4:12 a.m., in response to message #2 by Karl Schneider sometimes i think these restrictions have a strong impact on the calculator market.

Re: More NCEES restrictions on the way Message #4 Posted by N. O'Really on 1 Oct 2004, 7:09 a.m., in response to message #3 by LH Chan could be ...

Re: More NCEES restrictions on the way Message #5 Posted by Norris on 1 Oct 2004, 12:43 p.m., in response to message #3 by LH Chan In the US, the NCEES rules undoubtedly affect the market for both new and used HP calculators. For example, consider the situation that arose last year. In August 2003, NCEES unexpectedly announced that high-end HP calculators (including the 41, 42S, 48, and 49 series) would be banned on future professional engineering and surveying exams. Some 50,000 to 100,000 people take these exams every year, and a significant percentage of them are addicted to RPN calculators (especially the HP48). It is reasonable to assume that thousands of people (perhaps tens of thousands) suddenly started looking for low-end RPN calculators in late 2003, as a direct result of the NCEES ban. I was one myself. And there wasn't much available. HP had discontinued production of the 32SII in 2002, and the new 33S did not become available until early 2004. In 2003, there were literally *no* RPN scientific calculators in production that met NCEES standards. So the value of a used 11C, 15C, or 32SII soared. And the 33S flew off the shelves as soon as it became available. If you need further proof of the impact of NCEES exams, look at the market for commercial calculator software. Nobody markets calculator software anymore -- except for several vendors that offer NCEES exam software for the 33S (e.g. chotkeh.com, 33ssurveyor.com).

Re: More NCEES restrictions on the way Message #6 Posted by Norris on 1 Oct 2004, 1:31 p.m., in response to message #2 by Karl Schneider I have previously expressed my views to both NCEES and the California Engineering Board. The California Board has implicitly rejected the NCEES position. They continue to allow any non-QWERTY calculators on state-specific, non-NCEES PE and PLS exams. This may not be entirely due to my persuasive lobbying, however. NCEES, of course, hasn't budged, except to become more restrictive.

[ Return to Index | Top of Index ]

Go back to the main exhibit hall