HP Forum Archive 14

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NoVRAM (Cloned HEPAX) production started. Message #1 Posted by Diego Diaz on 24 June 2004, 4:23 p.m. Hi folks, Perhaps some of you still remember me :-) I've been working hard and, "with a -not so- little help from my friends" (thanks 聲gel, Bill) I've managed to have this project running. As far as the the first owners of NoVRAM modules haven't bl**kmailed me, I must suppose thei'r happy with their new toys. So everyone of you still seeking for an Advanced HEPAX for your HP-41 systems, please let me know. I've placed an ad in the corresponding section. This thread is intended mostly for technical questions about HEPAX module and its NoVRAM clonation. For HEPAX module functionality, please refer to the HEPAX manual available on-line or consult some of the *real* experts here. Happy to be back, and contribute to the HP-41 25th anniversary!!! Diego.

Re: NoVRAM (Cloned HEPAX) production started. Message #2 Posted by Massimo (Italy) on 24 June 2004, 7:03 p.m., in response to message #1 by Diego Diaz Hi Diego, no blackmail at all: mine surely works fine (as I mentioned in an earlier post)! Recommended. Thanks again for your great work. Massimo

Re: NoVRAM (Cloned HEPAX) production started. Message #3 Posted by 聲gel Martin on 25 June 2004, 2:51 a.m., in response to message #1 by Diego Diaz ...and so the day has finally arrived! Absolutely great news, we were getting very impatient by now :-) This (and the MLDL-2000 when it becomes available) is *the* supreme accessory for the 41, and at an affordable price: 16k RAM plus 8k ROM, with HEPAX compatibility (file system, MCODE programming, disassembler, utilities...) a spadeload of goodies and a powerhouse. Can't wait to get mine. Best, 簍

Re: NoVRAM operating system Message #4 Posted by Christoph Klug on 25 June 2004, 3:45 a.m., in response to message #3 by 聲gel Martin Dear Diego - hi friends really great news for HP41 enthusiasts. Would it also be possible to use alternative operating systems instead the Hepax ? For example W&W or Eramco Ram Box operating systems, or the MBK Profiset operating system ? Regards from Germany - Christoph Klug

Re: NoVRAM operating system Message #5 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 25 June 2004, 4:36 a.m., in response to message #4 by Christoph Klug This should be possible w/o any problems. The only serious alternative is the MBK ProfiSET OS. However, I'd leave the HEPAX on the four first pages, and include the MBK OS on the remaining two 'ROM' pages. The HEPAX uses only one virtual page, so three visible pages will be occupied to this point. Then the only additional thing you'll need is the CCD OS/X, which will be ready at the beginning of the next week;-) Sorry no IL-Dev buffer functions, since they would take too much space, and are of limited use IMHO. I have included SAVEROM/GETROM instead This way you'll have the choice of reading/writing your ROM images in any of the known formats. WRTROM (HEPAX), SAVEROM (ERAMCO, the standard), SAVEBL (ProfiSET), and the associated read functions are READROM (HEPAX), GETROM (ERAMCO), GETBL (ProfiSET), respectively. What I would like is to have the maximum of ROMs online at the same time, e.g. the HEPAX, ProfiSET, CCD OS/X, ExtIL, ExtIO, Advantage. This sums up to 12 4K blocks currently, using 8 visible pages. Since we can hardly reduce the amount of code used in each of the ROMs, an alternative would be to make some of the ROM pacs bankswitched. I'm thinking of the ProfiSET, and a combined version of the ExtIL&ExtIO, and maybe (only MAYBE) a three-bank version of the Advantage pac. So in the best case, all the above ROMs together would use 5 visible pages instead of 8 pages. Raymond

Re: NoVRAM operating system Message #6 Posted by 聲gel Martin on 25 June 2004, 7:21 a.m., in response to message #5 by Raymond Del Tondo Raymond, how could you possible "3-bank" the advantage? You still need the FAT entries for all those programs, which exceed the 64 limit of a single bank.- Best, 簍

Re: NoVRAM operating system Message #7 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 25 June 2004, 7:49 a.m., in response to message #6 by 聲gel Martin Hi Angel, this is the point why I wrote 'maybe';-) I didn't count the FAT entries in the Advantage ROM so far. I just saw that it contains more than 120 entries, so it will stay two visible blocks. But with the ExtIL & ExtIO, it should be possible to combine them into one bankswitched ROM, because some of the entries are duplicates, and some can simply be removed. Regards, Raymond

Re: NoVRAM operating system Message #8 Posted by 聲gel Martin on 25 June 2004, 9:41 a.m., in response to message #7 by Raymond Del Tondo Yes, absolutely. Sounds like a good project for the summer nights :-) Maybe we could join forces this time around. Best, 簍

Re: NoVRAM operating system Message #9 Posted by Diego D燰z on 25 June 2004, 5:09 a.m., in response to message #4 by Christoph Klug Hi, You'll wait not much longer to get yours on hand 聲gel... ;-)) To Christoph's question, yes, it'll be possible to burn W&W or ERAMCO System's but it's not coded yet, I have them planned to be released by the end of this summer. And hopefully (I can't tell for sure) it'll also can become into a double Extended memory module. Regarding the MBK Profiset, I'll gladly take a look at the corresponding images to check if it would be suitable for NoVRAM emulation, but I don't have such OS (I must admit this is the very first time I've heard of it ;-o) . Please mail me the .ROM images if you're interested. By the way, I'd also like to notify you about two known limitations: 1- NoVRAM modules run ONLY in normal speed machines. This is a RAM timing limitation and can not be overcome with this technology. 2- The 41's auto-off feature leaves the NoVRAM module in an illegal state (only in CX machines). So if it happens, you'll need to: first, do a soft-reset by holding down [ENTER^] while pressing [ON] twice. Then switch it off and on once again to restart HEPAX auto ubication process. This will leave your 41 and HEPAX system running without loosing a single bit in the attempt :-) Alternatively you can extract and reinsert your NoVRAM module and switch your 41 on normally (remember NoVRAM's non-volatile RAM will remain unaltered, so you can do it with confidence) Hope this helps. Best wishes from the Canary Islands. Diego.

Re: NoVRAM operating system Message #10 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 25 June 2004, 6:19 a.m., in response to message #9 by Diego D燰z Hi Diego, the MBK ProfiSET OS consists of two 'normal' pages, they're not bank-switched nor reconfiguring themselves. IMHO the MBK OS is the most user-friendly one, it uses a slightly different approach to manage the pages. They call it block, and you always have one selected block, to which many operations refer. Additionally, with the MBK OS you can use the RAM blocks as data harvesters for numerical data. They have a special compression/format which will save much space compared to storing normal numbers. The MBK OS was the one I heavily used back in the eighties, long before W&W made their RAMBox. Christoph Klug has the images. Apart from that, there was a so-called FAST module available from MBK. With this special block (not included in the ProfiSET) the user was able to speed up his own FOCAL programs, some functions only needed a third of their normal execution time! And this was all done in software:-) Raymond

Re: NoVRAM operating system Message #11 Posted by Christoph Klug on 25 June 2004, 8:00 a.m., in response to message #10 by Raymond Del Tondo Dear Raymond, adding the SAVEROM and GETROM commands to your 4KByte CCD module version is fantastic - because this two commands creates a bridge between EMU41 and NoVRAM. Is in your 4KByte CCD Module version additionally room for a command set for saving X-Memory to mass storage ? Regards - Christoph Klug

Re: READEM and WRTEM Message #12 Posted by 聲gel Martin on 25 June 2004, 9:38 a.m., in response to message #11 by Christoph Klug Christoph's request is a good one: AFAIK, only the PANAME rom has a general-purpose implementation of such functionality (READEM and WRTEM)- all others (on some EPROMS) *assume* that the X-Functions module is present (i.e. no CX) and that is is installed in part 8. Clearly bad programming practices. However, I can't imagine there's enough room left in the OS/X rom to add such functions at all. I looked at the PANAME inplementation, quite long and intertwined... Will like to be wrong about this one myself.

Re: READEM and WRTEM Message #13 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 26 June 2004, 1:58 p.m., in response to message #12 by 聲gel Martin Hi, you are right. The functions for saving/restoring XM take too much space. After including SAVEROM/GETROM and INPT, there's about sixty words left free. As I wrote before, I'm thinking of making a bs version of the ExtIL&ExtIO, and there will be the functions to save/restore XM and buffer contents. Some other functions are included in the HEPAX ROMs. Seems my (upcomimg) favourite config could be: HEPAX, ExtIL&IO (BS), CCD OS/X, and maybe Advantage. Has someone tried to use the NoVRAM *and* Clonix at the same time? I tried it, and then my Clonix got stuck somehow. Maybe the reason was a port overlap. However, I have to burn a new config (ExtIL/IO) in the next days anyway;-) Raymond

Re: READEM and WRTEM Message #14 Posted by Massimo (Italy) on 27 June 2004, 4:05 a.m., in response to message #13 by Raymond Del Tondo Quote: Has someone tried to use the NoVRAM *and* Clonix at the same time? I tried it, and then my Clonix got stuck somehow. Maybe the reason was a port overlap. Same result (well, actually the CX didn't wake up at all), same conclusions... :-) It was just a quick check when I first got the new toy; at the moment I couldn't remember what I burnt and where in the Clonix so - after pulling both out - I tested the correct functionality of each separately... and went on. I will make other tests as time permits. Massimo

Re: Clonix-41 + NoVRAM... it works. Message #15 Posted by Diego Diaz on 27 June 2004, 8:56 a.m., in response to message #14 by Massimo (Italy) Hi all, Raymond, Massimo, I've done some testing both in a HP-41CV and CX, with the following config: NoVRAM: with HEPAX-1D XROM#=7 (goes to page #6 in CX and page #5 in CV) and RAM on pages #8 to #B, please take into consideration that HEPAX file system assigns fake XROM# to RAM pages, ranging #11 to #14. I have not tried to check if this scheme is also auto-modified if the HEPAX OS finds a *real* module with any of those XROM numbers. Clonix: #C - Data Acquisition 1B L, XROM#=21 #D - Data Acquisition 1B H, XROM#=31 #E - David Assembler 2C, XROM#=2 #F - Extended I/O 1A, XROM#=23 It turns up without a flaw (several dozen times... :-) no matter which physical port they were plugged in. I've also tested HEPAX 002 function to verify every module showed up in its appropriate page, and they're all there. The (lengthy) CAT 2 also showed every function and ASSM sees HEPAX RAM and handles it without problems. Please double check your config as they more likely attemp to overlap page numbers or use same XROM numbers... So far, the only inconvenience I still find in using two "emulation" modules is a too high a power drain (near 40mA when RUNning), so I DO NOT advice to make use of it. Best wishes from Spain. Diego. Edited: 27 June 2004, 9:40 a.m.

Re: READEM and WRTEM Message #16 Posted by Angel Martin on 27 June 2004, 3:02 p.m., in response to message #14 by Massimo (Italy) Guys, I still don't have a NoVRAM, but having owned (and used) the HEPAX module for a few years, I'd bet your issue has to do with the way HEPAX assigns XROM id#'s that conflict with other ROMS in your Clonix. Such assignment is made the first time the calculator powers on with the HEPAX (or NoVRAM I presume) plugged in, but not in every subsequent power cycle. If you've inserted another module after that, the conflict is more than feasible. I wrote a small MCODE routine to scan the complete bus and auto-reassign the RAM id#'s in case of conflict. It proved very handy when dealing with the RAM blocks as part of the HEPAX file system, and also in these cases. It's always a good practice to check your HEPAX RAM ROM id's before plugging in other modules (like Clonix). If there's conflict, just use HEXEDIT to edit the first word value on the conflicting page. Easy enough. So again, I'm almost sure it isn't due to having both Clonix and NoVRAM. That wouldn't be logical at all. Best, 'AM

CCD OS/X uses ID 5 from now on Message #17 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 28 June 2004, 6:46 a.m., in response to message #16 by Angel Martin Hi, the main problem was that I used ROM ID 7 for my version of the CCD module, and the HEPAX uses ID 7, too. Actually, I used this ID for my CCD-C long before the HEPAX was invented. So after changing the ID to another value, the named functions in CCD OS/X work as expected while the HEPAX is around. If nothing speaks against this, the future ROM ID of the CCD OS/X will be 5, as only the STANDARD module seems to use it. It's planned to upload it to 'the other site' before the end of the 3rd of July. BTW: The modified CCD on 'the other site', with Matrix stuff removed, is from you? If yes, you dont need to hassle with only parts of a 4K block from now on;-) You can simply use the CCD OS/X as a given ROM page, and use another whole 4K page for your utilities. Please do me a favour and let the CCD OS/X as it is, it's a closed block with much non-moveable code, and it's planned to make it a bankswitched ROM in the near future. Regards, Raymond

Re: CCD OS/X uses ID 5 from now on Message #18 Posted by 聲gel Martin on 28 June 2004, 7:33 a.m., in response to message #17 by Raymond Del Tondo Raymond, Allay your fears: I have no intention to alter, edit, change or modify in any way your OS/X ROM. Yes, I did the "modified CCD", because I've been needing it for a long time to burn a couple of Clonixes (and Zeproms) with both the CCD and the Advantage, and without the redundancy of the ARRAY functions. You'll surely remember my emails, unless you never got them? If you look at it, you'll see that is done by straight removal of the ARRAY functions from the *original* CCD. No other "aids" or "helping code" was used at all - if you know what I mean ;-O Best, 簍

Re: CCD OS/X uses ID 5 from now on Message #19 Posted by Steve on 6 July 2004, 2:32 p.m., in response to message #17 by Raymond Del Tondo Hmmm - maybe we can use another XROM ID as the ZENROM uses 5 as well. And I like the built in editor as well. Otherwise I guess the ZENROM becomes defunct. :-(

Re: CCD OS/X uses ID 5 from now on Message #20 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 6 July 2004, 5:07 p.m., in response to message #19 by Steve Hi, if you mean RAMED, don't worry. At least RAMED could be included in the planned BS version of the CCD OS/X. Which ROM ID would you like the CCD OS/X to use? I'm open for suggestions. I chose 5 because in my list, only the STANDARD module used 5. And with the NoVRAM and HEPAX and CCD OS/X loaded, the ZENROM is obsolete (IMHO;-) , since the HEPAX has a comparable HEX editor. However, you can change the OS/X ROM ID to your favourite value. Regards, Raymond

Re: NoVRAM operating system Message #21 Posted by Diego Diaz on 26 June 2004, 7:02 p.m., in response to message #4 by Christoph Klug Hi all, I've placed a little more info and some pics of my new "chocolate chip" in my not-so-cute page. I know, I know, and I'm giving the required steps to move my page (and rearrange it) to my new site "clonix.org" at telefonica.net, but it will still take a while... sorry. For now please accept my apologies for the pop-ups inconveniences at: http://www.iespana.es/clonix-41/index.htm and follow the NoVRAM link. The new HEPAX-1D "NoVRAM43v8k.HEX" code file is also there, follow the lower link on the left. Raymond, I'd like to help with the Clonix-NoVRAM coexintence trouble you mention. Mail me with the details if you consider it appropriate. Thanks everybody for your support and best wishes from the Canaries. Diego.

Re: NoVRAM (Cloned HEPAX) production started. Message #22 Posted by Wilson (Bill) Holes on 1 July 2004, 5:08 p.m., in response to message #1 by Diego Diaz Congrats Diego!!! Sorry I couldn't respond earlier, as you know I was in Cedar Rapids, Iowa when your message (and those that followed) hit the Forum. I'm back now and doing a little catching up on my eMail and reading the Forum. I must say it was really a nice break to go somewhere for a whole week without my trusty laptop in tow!!! Keep up the great work!!! What's next??? Best Regards, Bill

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