HP Forum Archive 13

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Just found this new 35S prototype;) Message #1 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 10 Nov 2003, 12:36 p.m. - full metal case w/ some design elements from earlier models, locked by just one screw (to clean the interior from Cola, read on) - very small and slim - pcb mounted on rubber sockets to survive heavy shocks - best ever color scheme borrowed from 20S - memory limited stack (32kB? more anyone?) - two-line display - extended keystroke programming similar to 32SII functionality, new: messages appear above the input prompt; some other minor modifications were made to allow for a tiny user interface - programs can be assign to three CuSTom keys - root solver with further developed CAS, minimizes the use of the secand algo (hi Linda;), interface exactly the same as on 18C - Levenberg-Marquardt model fitting - MENU key toggles anti-boring full-screen menu and stack view - introduces some 'delay' functions e.g., pressing MENU >=1s gets you back to the menu root - menu tree contains the complete functionality for statictics (incl. hypothesis tests), matrix and vector calculations, equation solver etc., some often used functions are also on the keypad - OO operators to be used on any datatype - introduces the 'Set' datatype including intersection, union, A\B etc. - full range of coordinate systems including geodesic (degree,min,sec) system - IrDA and USB - speech generator, '5' key w/ vertical bar, braille pattern on some operator keys (not shown;) - plasic keys mounted on a matrix; seperated from capacitive sensor layer by a protective sheet resistant to Cola, US-beer and other agressive chemicals - increased availability by omitting Minehunter game - Optionally available cowcatcher to be mounted at the top of the calc for use on track; make sure to have your seat aligned accordingly Beside some new features, this calc assembles the power of the 48/49 series plus extras and the ease-of-use of an 32S(II) into a truly pocket sized quality designer case where form perfectly follows function. Took three days to design:). Non-destructive comments welcome. Thomas (beeing bored and having way too much time)

Re: Just found this new 35S prototype;) Message #2 Posted by Mark Ordal on 10 Nov 2003, 1:44 p.m., in response to message #1 by Thomas Radtke If the HP35S becomes a reality, I'll be buying one! It really sounds like what some of us were hoping the 33S would be. So much so, that I can't help but wonder if the "photo" of the 35S isn't just someone's 3D rendering of what a pocket-sized HP calculator OUGHT TO BE! The large ENTER key seems particularly suspicious to me. Oh well, I can only hope that this is the real deal. (-: --Mark

Re: Just found this new 35S prototype;) re: x^2 key Message #3 Posted by Bill Wiese on 10 Nov 2003, 2:06 p.m., in response to message #2 by Mark Ordal Hi... Please please have an [x^2] (x-squared) key - with it as the main (unshifted) function. My 32S has sqrt(x) as the primary func, w/x^2 as a shifted func, which is not a keystroke saver: sqrt(x) should be the shifted func. Bill Wiese San Jose CA

Re: Just found this new 35S prototype;) Message #4 Posted by Raymond Del Tondo on 10 Nov 2003, 4:40 p.m., in response to message #1 by Thomas Radtke Hi, this is a great thing! Congratulations! Let me add some comments. I'd swap the 'CPLX' and '+/-' keys, and in the position of your 'y^x' key I'd set the backarrow/clear key, of course;-) Regards, Raymond

Re: Just found this new 35S prototype;) Message #5 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 11 Nov 2003, 8:05 a.m., in response to message #4 by Raymond Del Tondo Hi Ray, thanks! I have the bs/del functions on shifted keys. Stack entries can be dropped with the 'on' key. Thomas

Re: Just found this new 35S prototype;) Message #6 Posted by jimc on 10 Nov 2003, 8:37 p.m., in response to message #1 by Thomas Radtke Is it April 1st? ;) I'd buy one tomorrow! 12345

Re: Just found this new 35S prototype;) Message #7 Posted by Graham on 10 Nov 2003, 9:43 p.m., in response to message #1 by Thomas Radtke Thomas Well done! Your design looks so much more professional than the (yuck!) "cowcatcher 33S" And I like its small size and that I can easily open the machine to clean or repair it HP, take a hint please.

Re: Just found this new 35S prototype;) Message #8 Posted by Juan J on 11 Nov 2003, 12:10 a.m., in response to message #7 by Graham Could a clock/timer function be added? Like the good old 41CX time functions?

Re: Just found this new 35S prototype;) Message #9 Posted by Arnaud Amiel on 11 Nov 2003, 4:01 a.m., in response to message #7 by Graham Given that the majority of customers target for this kind of clac would be high school students, could you please add a cowcatcher design, brand recognition is very important for the youth market. And could you please also make sure that the calc can be openned as it would be all too easy for the young ones to fiddle with it and break it. Call it 33s to show that it is not as upmarket as the 35s and I will buy it. Arnaud

Re: Just found this new 35S prototype;) Message #10 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 11 Nov 2003, 8:15 a.m., in response to message #9 by Arnaud Amiel Hi Arnaud, you mean it should _not_ be possible to open it and you're right of course. Well, your ideas are really great. Such machines would sell like hot cakes. Back to reality, I don't think the 33S will have too much success. The younger people can impossibly be so much targeted on non-ergonomic devices. But then there are some quite strange cell phones too. Hmmm...we'll see. Thomas

Not bad, Tom! But... Message #11 Posted by Karl Schneider on 11 Nov 2003, 12:12 a.m., in response to message #1 by Thomas Radtke --- I have some questions: 1. I see nothing about graphing, despite the hi-res display. If it isn't why use 4 buttons for directional-arrow functions? 2. How does "CPLX" work? -- 32Sii: "Just Plus? No, *Simon Says* Complex Plus" -- 42S: "C->R and R->C" -- 28C/S: "A full menu -- C->R; R->C; Re; Im; Conj; Sign; Mag; R->P; P->R; Abs; Neg; Arg" 3. Why is "Hyp" so prominent and not adjacent to the trigonometrics? That product-design biz ain't so easy, is it? ;-)

Re: Not bad, Tom! But... Message #12 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 11 Nov 2003, 8:00 a.m., in response to message #11 by Karl Schneider Hi Karl, the CPLX button is needed when there is no explicit complex datatype (how should the software decide whether there are four reals or two complex on the stack?). Might not be true on the 35S:). Up'n'down is for stack navigation. You're completely right, the product design should certainly take more time than a few days:). But in the end I will never be in a position to bring such a device to the market. Thomas

Re: Not bad, Tom! But... Message #13 Posted by Nelson M. Sicuro (Brazil) on 11 Nov 2003, 10:11 a.m., in response to message #12 by Thomas Radtke I still prefer the usage of complex numbers of the HP-15C and the functions that 'decide' if a result can be a complex one of the HP-42S. The only 'complex' function is the one that you can enter a complex number, like the I on the 15C, using a complex stack (full 4 entry)... Can this design be modified to the 'landscape' HP-15C-ish format?? Regards, Nelson

Re: Not bad, Tom! But... Message #14 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 11 Nov 2003, 10:44 a.m., in response to message #13 by Nelson M. Sicuro (Brazil) Nelson posted: "The only 'complex' function is the one that you can enter a complex number, like the I on the 15C, using a complex stack (full 4 entry)..." The HP-71B/Math ROM also does it quite well: COMPLEX Z, V Z = (2,3)*(4,5)/(6,7) + SIN((1,1)) - EXP((2,5)^(3,2)) V = SQR(Z) + SINH(Z) * LOG(Z)/TANH(Z) - ABS(Z) PRINT POLAR(Z), RECT(Z), CONJ(Z), PROJ(Z) COMPLEX SHORT A(10,10), B(10,10) MAT A = ((2,5)) MAT B = A*A MAT PRINT USING 'C(2D.D,2D.D,"i")'; A COMPLEX X(40,40), Y(40,40), Z(40,40) MAT X = SYS(Y,Z) IF Z # (0,0) THEN CALL XREFINE(Z, (1E-5, 1E-5)) ELSE 'DONE' DESTROY ALL @ OPTION BASE 1 @ DIM P(6) @ COMPLEX R(5) MAT INPUT P MAT R=PROOT(P) MAT DISP R By the way, "complex stack (full 4 entry)" should be " ... plus complex LastX" Best regards from V.

Re: Not bad, Tom! But... Message #15 Posted by Nelson M. Sicuro (Brazil) on 11 Nov 2003, 11:14 a.m., in response to message #14 by Valentin Albillo Yes, I forgot the LastX... The entry format of the 71C is great for a computer-like calculator, but for a numeric calculator (7 segment display?) the 15C is very good. I don't know the complex functions of the (?) Math Pack (/?) for the HP-41 is better or not. P.S. I have all three (15C, 42S, 41CV), and the best keyboard is a mix of the mechanics of the 41CV and the 42C's layout with the "landscape" orientation of the 15C, with 2 shifts and less menus, in my humble opinion... I don't have any fancy 3D-rendering software to do a visual on it, I'll try some day on Photoshop... Best regards, Nelson

Re: Not bad, Tom! But... Message #16 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 11 Nov 2003, 11:36 a.m., in response to message #15 by Nelson M. Sicuro (Brazil) Hi, Nelson: Both the Math ROM and the Advantage ROM complex functions are implemented in user code (RPN), as a 2-level stack and thus can't compare at all with the HP-15C's native ones. The only classical machine that compares is the 42S, though it can't enter 4 complex numbers on the stack at a time directly, which the HP-15C can. Assuming you haven't got an HP-71B, you really should. They're very affordable, even on eBay, and it's a very pleasant, inmensely powerful machine, with a keyboard second to none. If you can get one with extra RAM and a Math ROM, that's a winning combination. A Forth/Assembler ROM would top it all ... Best regards from V.

Re: Not bad, Tom! But... Message #17 Posted by Thomas Radtke on 11 Nov 2003, 2:24 p.m., in response to message #15 by Nelson M. Sicuro (Brazil) Hi Nelson, would love to see your 'landscape' solution since I like these designs too. However, I do not own one and don't know if they are usable in single-hand action which would be important for me (coffee mug in one hand and no space left on the desk, that is;). Thomas

Re: Not bad, Tom! But... Message #18 Posted by Nelson M. Sicuro (Brazil) on 11 Nov 2003, 3:06 p.m., in response to message #17 by Thomas Radtke I'll try to design one, I just haven't much time now. I use my HP-15C mostly in my desk, but with only one hand isn't much good. If you use it as a "gamepad", holding with two hands and pressing the keyboard with your thumbs, is very good! Best regards, Nelson

Re: Just found this new 35S prototype;) Message #19 Posted by Ed Look on 11 Nov 2003, 2:04 a.m., in response to message #1 by Thomas Radtke If you might want to make a version exactly the same, but called 34S and gave it a dot matrix red LED display (no rechargeable NiCds, please) and sell it only to the forumites! I'd buy both!

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