|Re: My HP-15C vs. your 32S/SII|
Message #17 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 7 Nov 2003, 11:43 a.m.,
in response to message #16 by bill platt
"Actually I do not think the 32sii is "better" than the 15c---clearly without the matrix stuff and the complx stuff, AND less memory, it is inferior..."
Now we are making progress ... :-)
"not everyone uses matrix and complex numbers"
Fine. At the time of the 41C release, not everyone had a use for many of its advanced capabilities. But that didn't invalidate the fact that it was the superior machine. If you only need the basic four arithmetic functions, that won't mean that an HP-32S isn't superior to a $1 four-function banger, right ? In our present case, the fact that not everyone uses matrices and/or complex numbers does nothing to detract from the fact that the 15C is nonetheless the superior model.
"So, if you free the ROM (by making matrix anc complex optional) you also make the calculator more versatile for some users......"
I don't follow your argument here. ROM and RAM are very different beasties. "Freeing" ROM won't do a thing to increase your RAM availability, both were very differently priced at the time, and it was usually much more sound from an economical point of view to implement as much functionality in ROM as possible, just to save a few precious RAM bytes. That's why HP did include so many functions and features in the ROM, such as hyperbolics or recall arithmetic, because that would save the user a lot of bytes here and there. But if you chose not to use the ROM for said purposes, it would simply remain unused. The HP-45, for instance, had some pages of ROM available after implementing all projected functions. Havig nothing better to do with it ('trading' it for extra RAM being out of the question), they did include there the microcode for the HP-55 timer.
"would it not be reasonable and possible to duplicate the 15c Matrix and complex functionality in an RPN
That's a *VERY* tall order, for any programmer. The microcoded matrix algorithms were state-of-the-art, developed ad-hoc for the HP-15C, and going through every loop to achieve maximum speed and accuracy, even above and beyond the 13-digit internal precision. And as the HP-15C's matrix set is quite comprehensive, accurately emulating it in user-code software would be prohibitive for most any individual.
I ask these questions because your explanations are generally very well written and enjoyable to
Thank you very much, but trying to lure me with sweet words won't do you any good, I'll trash you all the same ... :-) :-)
"Obviously the 32sii does not have enough memory available for that....but how about the 33s IF it has 32 kB?"
That amount of RAM would be enough to implement a number of programs and routines simultaneously, even at the preposterous rate the 32S gobbles up RAM (remember the 1.5 bytes minimum per instruction, 9.5 bytes for all numbers not 0-99, etc). But in the case of the matrix operations, the difficulty lies not only in the RAM required, but in the complexity of the algorithms themselves. Of course you can implement a matrix inversion or solve a system with fairly compact programs, but not with the quality and accuracy of the built-in 15C matrix functions (also present in the HP-71B, 42S, etc).
"just how much more programming lines could the 15c have had, had that ROM space been made available for the user (rather than used for matrix stuff)."
None. See my explanation above. You just didn't trade RAM for ROM at the time. Either you used all the ROM available for useful or miscellaneous functionality, or else it was left unused. If I recall correctly, the HP-75's I/O ROM was another such case, with a certain amount of poetry being burned into spare ROM space, just for fun as it would be left utterly unused otherwise.
"I like the spanish proverb----that's a good one! How do you write it in Spanish (my son likes Spanish)."
My pleasure. The proverb goes like this:
"Si mi padre fuese redondo y colorado, seria un tomate."
"Pero como no es, no es."
My compliments to your son. This is for him:
Hola, me alegro mucho de que te guste mi idioma
nativo. A mi tambien me gusta mucho el idioma Ingles,
es precioso, potente, y permite comunicarse a gente
de todos los paises. Espero que sigas progresando
con el idioma Español y que algun dia te animes a
venir de vacaciones a España. Saludos de Valentin.
"One more thing--your name appears in the Chess world a lot--is it you, or your doppelganger?"
It's me. As far as I know, I am the only Valentin Albillo in the world ! :-)
Thanks for your kind words and interest, and best regards from V.
Edited: 7 Nov 2003, 11:45 a.m.