HP Forum Archive 13

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New HPs keyboard quality Message #1 Posted by Victor Koechli on 14 Sept 2003, 5:13 p.m. Yesterday I played a bit with a 17BII+ in a store here in Zurich. In my opinion the keyboard is awkward, it feels *very* cheap, and the '1' key didn't even work. Of course this particular machine was there for everyone to play with, but still: Are 49G+ keyboards the same as of the 17BII+? If yes, I'll have to think very well about buying one... Cheers, Victor

Re: New HPs keyboard quality Message #2 Posted by Gene on 14 Sept 2003, 5:28 p.m., in response to message #1 by Victor Koechli No, the 49G+ and 48GII keyboards do not look like they are the same as the 17BII+ (which has the same keyboard as the 10BII). They appear to be much better and, although reports on comp.sys.hp48 have indicated some problems with early unit keyboards clicking but not registering the push, another individual there has indicated no such problem. As always with early adopters, there may be some tweaks that need to occur. Looks like the 49G+ are going to be very good.

Re: New HPs keyboard quality Message #3 Posted by Joan Cárdenas on 15 Sept 2003, 8:16 a.m., in response to message #2 by Gene Hi all, My 49g+ can be an early unit since its serial number is cn33100781, made at the end of july. But the overall quality of the keyboard is quite bad and is not reliable at all. I think the reason is quite simple, they just change the system from metalic bubble to a plastic bubble. There's nothing to do with the old Hp's keyboards. And also there's a funny thing, if one press and hold a key and keep increasing the preasure more times, the calc keep registering the input, instead of the old keys behavior, where a press means only one register until the complete release. So, a bit disapointing... Regards.

Re: New HPs keyboard quality Message #4 Posted by J.Manrique on 15 Sept 2003, 10:39 a.m., in response to message #3 by Joan Cárdenas Funny, your Serial Number seems to be lower than a marketing sample I've seen some time ago. Maybe some one is offering too early units. Mine is CN33101969, and its keys work fine, perhaps not as good as hp48g, but fine anyway. ---- J.Manrique López de la Fuente Users Club from Gijón 1077 HPCC Member AsturLiNUX & HispaLiNUX Member

Re: New HPs keyboard quality Message #5 Posted by hugh on 14 Sept 2003, 7:00 p.m., in response to message #1 by Victor Koechli i've been meaning to ask about the new 17bii for a while now. functionally, are there any improvements over the original 17bii, or is it an excersise in cost reduction. i've always thought the original 17bii was a very fine machine (one of my favorites). they've messed it up, havent they?

Re: New HPs keyboard quality Message #6 Posted by Victor Koechli on 15 Sept 2003, 4:31 a.m., in response to message #5 by hugh I don't know the 17BII, so I can't tell what differences there are between it and the 17BII+. Of course, if you'd like to know anything special, I can always go back to that store and check it out, it's quite close to where I work. As far as the keyboard quality is concerned, it certainly seems to be a step in the wrong direction. I mean, the machine hasn't been out for long, has it? And still, one key on that specimen I was playing with already is broken. If there is something I can find out for you, let me know. Just be warned: I don't know much about financial stuff. But others in this forum do... Cheers, Victor

Re: New HPs keyboard quality Message #7 Posted by Christof on 15 Sept 2003, 11:49 a.m., in response to message #6 by Victor Koechli Sounds like time to ask randy if he thinks the old 17bii will take a 32k chip, since that seems to be the main upgrade.....

Re: New HPs keyboard quality Message #8 Posted by Alan Miles on 15 Sept 2003, 12:08 p.m., in response to message #6 by Victor Koechli HI I have an HP 17Bii+ AND an HP 17Bii in front of me. The HP 17Bii+ has all the functions of the 17Bii and uses the same menu tree etc. As far as I can tell everything seems to calculate in the same way although I have heard there may be one or two changes in some formula (although I havent found any of these yet!). The HP 17Bii+ is claimed to have 32 KB memory, a lot more than the old 17Bii. The 17Bii+ also has currency convesion that was NOT in the 17Bii. The keyboard seems OK to me although it is possible to get a "click" without the number actually registering (for some reason this seems to happen mostly on the number 4 on my calculator) Once you get used to the keyboard it works OK. The keyboard layout is identical to the HP 17Bii+ but the keys are bigger. The printing on the keys seems very solid and I wouldnt expect this to rub off even under heavy use. I have a 10Bii as well, the keyboards are NOT the same. 10Bii keyboard is actually a little larger. The 10Bii has 8 rows of 5 keys and the 17Bii+ has 2 rows of 6 keys at the top then 5 rows of 5 keys below. The 10Bii keyboard does however have the same problem of getting a click on the "4" key not always registering (weird??) The 10B and 17Bii+ are identical in size and shape overall except the 17Bii+ seems a little thicker, it looks nicer too. I actually quite like this 17Bii+ unit. I prefer the look to the old HP 17Bii. The supplied case (leather?) is VERY nice and MUCH better than the old 17Bii case. Manual is still very comprehensive with 300+ pages. Also it still has the ir port for printing. Does anyone know of another calculator I should look at that is as good for finance/banking/business use?

Another financial calculator ... Message #9 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 15 Sept 2003, 12:48 p.m., in response to message #8 by Alan Miles Alan Miles asked: "Does anyone know of another calculator I should look at that is as good for finance/banking/business use ?" If you can find one (eBay, for instance), then the vintage SHARP PC-1421 Business/Financial Computer (known as EL-5510 in the US) can give a run for its money to anything HP has to offer, past & present, both in sheer power, ease of use and programming, and full I/O. Very good manual, too: thick, detailed, and full of examples and useful programs. Go get one, I've got both in my collection, and very proud of them. Best regards from V.

The ghost of HP past Message #10 Posted by Tom (UK) on 15 Sept 2003, 1:35 p.m., in response to message #8 by Alan Miles Does this mean the potential HP42S lives on inside the HP17bii+? If you say the menu and keys are the same and it has IR then it sounds very similar. Has anyone taken one to bits to see if there is a ROM chip, or is this inside a 'one chip' circuit? Sorry if I'm going over old ground.

Re: New keyboard problems Message #11 Posted by Randy Sloyer on 15 Sept 2003, 8:18 p.m., in response to message #8 by Alan Miles Okay, now you have my attention. I've ignored the 17Bii+ up to now as a 10Bii knock-off. I never looked close enough at the keyboards to see that they were indeed different. I have dissected several non-functional keyboard 10Bii's and found the common problem to be flux contamination from the bottom to top plate-through holes in which the battery clip is installed. The flux migrates onto the top of the circuit board that forms the base cross-points of the key switches and prevents good contact. If you pop the battery door and remove the batteries, you'll see the lower right side of the battery clip is opposite the 4 key. They actually improved the design over the Pioneers as the bottom of the switch is gold plated copper, much better than what preceded them. The keyboard dome is still a formed plastic sheet with a conductive ink deposit that closes the switch. I think it is more a process problem than a design issue. They did improve some other nagging Pioneer problems, notably the common breakage of the LCD. It floats in the 10Bii rather than being glued to a rigid metal frame. I would imagine it is the same in the 17Bii+. The 10Bii was actually an HP design, I'm speculating, but it may have been the last thing ACO did as the circuit boards have a year 2000 copyright. I think the 17Bii+ is an extension of that design. One only needs to look at the 33S to know that is NOT an HP design. The fact it has an I/R port baffles me. Why 'o why would they go to the trouble of adding that when they no longer make a printer to receive it? Is it a Saturn chip or is it an emulator? I think it is time for me to buy one and bust it open just for fun to see if the 42SX might really be a possibility. Edited: 15 Sept 2003, 8:23 p.m.

Re: New keyboard problems Message #12 Posted by James M. Prange on 16 Sept 2003, 2:24 a.m., in response to message #11 by Randy Sloyer Quote: The fact it has an I/R port baffles me. Why 'o why would they go to the trouble of adding that when they no longer make a printer to receive it? Maybe HP intends re-badge one of these? Regards, James

Re: New keyboard problems Message #13 Posted by Erik Ehrling (Sweden) on 16 Sept 2003, 2:58 p.m., in response to message #11 by Randy Sloyer > The fact it has an I/R port baffles me. Why 'o why would they go to the trouble of adding that when they no longer make a printer to receive it? Is it a Saturn chip or is it an emulator? I think it is time for me to buy one and bust it open just for fun to see if the 42SX might really be a possibility. Keep us posted! If not, then I guess we would have to write I/O routines for the good old HP-42S instead... Regards, Erik Ehrling (Sweden) Homepage:http://w1.322.telia.com/~u32220482/index.html

Re: New keyboard problems Message #14 Posted by Gordon Dyer on 17 Sept 2003, 5:50 p.m., in response to message #11 by Randy Sloyer Any new calculator with an IR port should be IRDA v2 compliant, bi-directional and be able to communicate with a PC. Can the 17BII+ or 49G+ do this?

Re: New HPs keyboard quality Message #15 Posted by Christof (Hurricane Path USA) on 15 Sept 2003, 9:10 p.m., in response to message #8 by Alan Miles There are a few of the more esoteric functions missing from the 17Bii+ it seems, but overall what I hear about the operational aspects is encouraging. The currency conversion is interesting- that along with the multi language capabilities makes me wonder if the 19Bii ROM wasn't used as the source for this emulation. The 17Bii and the 19Bii were not very much different. I've often wished that the few things they didn't share were shared. I'm curious to see how the new 19bii+xtra-supersized-gold-platiunim-collector's-limited edition will come out. Personally I always loved the clamshell. I've never had one break- and I've got several 28S machines that are ex high school classroom calcs that have seen some pretty heavy use. Yes- the battery door always sucked a bit, but the dual mode usage (that clamshell folds all the way over) and ergonomics always have attracted me. And in direct respone to yur question-- It's a toss up. If you need RAM (I keep an entire set of books summarized in a 17Bii) then the 17Bii+ is probably the best one for you. Otherwise, the 12C is fantastic and well respected in a world where appearances matter. The TI BA series isn't half bad, either.... but..... well.

HP17Bii languages Message #16 Posted by Tom (UK) on 16 Sept 2003, 7:13 a.m., in response to message #15 by Christof (Hurricane Path USA) I think some 17Bii's had an extra ROM for the multi language version so this 2nd ROM may have been the source for the 17Bii+.

Re: HP17Bii languages Message #17 Posted by Victor Koechli on 16 Sept 2003, 11:19 a.m., in response to message #16 by Tom (UK) Actually, the machine I played with 'spoke' german, so either all 17Bii+ are multilingual, or HP again makes models with an additional ROM.. Cheers, Victor

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