The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 13

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HP 17Bii
Message #1 Posted by V on 12 July 2003, 11:13 a.m.

What specs and characteristics does this calculator have?

ty

"\V/"

      
Re: HP 17Bii
Message #2 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 12 July 2003, 11:51 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by V

Hi;

It's a second-from-top financial calculator (right below the HP19BII) and has the following characteristics beyond HP12C's related TVM most common resources (Bonds, Depreciation, IRR, NPV, Cash flow, etc):

real-time clock and calendar
Scheduler with up to ten custom-defined appointments
ALPHA messages (same HP42S ALPHA entry style)
Statistics based on lists instead of summations (good to edit)
user-selectable Algebraic / RPN mode
6.5K RAM for the user

and a few more "stuff".

I have the three of them: HP17BII, HP19BII and the HP12C. I like the HP17BII very much, but I preffer the HP19BII because of it's extended math resources (TRIGS, Hyperbolics), currency convertions and graphics.

Hope this clarifies a bit.

Luzi (Brazil)

Edited: 12 July 2003, 11:52 a.m.

            
Re: HP 17Bii
Message #3 Posted by V on 12 July 2003, 5:21 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil)

Hi, Thanks for the details. What about programability? And the equation solver, how powerful is it? what type of equations can it solve?

Thanks again

"\V/"

                  
Re: HP 17Bii
Message #4 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 12 July 2003, 5:47 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by V

Hi, V;

The HP17BII is not exactly programmable; at least I do not see this way because its "custom" expressions do not mean "language" wiht a "sintax". It accepts algebraic expressions and has many resources that allow some "data managment". W. Bruce Maguire II wrote some very usefull expressions that allow trigonometrics and inverses to be computed. Look here and you'll have your own feelings about its "pogramming" style.

Best regards.

Luiz (Brazil)

                        
Re: HP 17Bii
Message #5 Posted by jose goncalves (brasil) on 12 July 2003, 6:38 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil)

I'd like to add that both the 17BII and the 19BII have 2 functions that area used with the solver that can turn them into something we could call semi-programable calculators. They have the IF and the (sigma) functions. Very few persons refer to these functions and it's not easy to find reference to them. You can find them in the pages of the manual that describe the functions of the solver.

Jose

            
Re: HP 17Bii
Message #6 Posted by Eric on 13 July 2003, 10:13 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil)

Luiz:

Do you know if the 17bii has the functions LET ang GET as the HP27S?

Thanks in advance

Eric

                  
Re: HP 17Bii
Message #7 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 13 July 2003, 10:53 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by Eric

Hi, Eric;

I have the HP17BII in my very hands right now and I do not see any reference in INDEX to them. Now I'm curious: what do they do in the HP27S? Are they related to variables?

I had a look at the SOLVER and I saw nothing about them. Anyway, if they are related to other subject, let me know and I'll search them again.

BTW, does the HP27S have a "programming language"? The HP17BII allows expressions and equations to be written, with a reasonable control level. As mentioned by Josť Ernesto, it allows IF structures and Sigma functions in expressions, and I agree with him that a "pseudo-programming" capability exists, but I do not see this resource as a "programming language", as I mentioned previously. I'm asking about this because LET and GET make sense in a programming environment; am I wrong?

Sorry not helpping further. Best reagards.

Luiz (Brazil)

Edited: 13 July 2003, 10:57 p.m.

                  
Re: Yes
Message #8 Posted by Ron Ross on 14 July 2003, 7:59 a.m.,
in response to message #6 by Eric

Yes the Let and Get functions are there for all three calculators, Hp17B, Hp19b, and Hp27s. Not documented in any of the owners manuals but stated in an advanced users manual (for the 19 and 27, but the 17 does have the same solver sans trig). These functions do add rudimentary programming to these models (though the solvers are really outstanding all by themselves).

                        
Re: Yes
Message #9 Posted by tony on 16 July 2003, 4:33 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by Ron Ross

minor point. the 17b is an exception. it has no let/get. the 17bii does though.

                              
Re: Thanks for the info.
Message #10 Posted by Ron Ross on 16 July 2003, 7:26 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by tony

I did not know that. My 17Bii had and I mistakenly assumed the only change with the plain 17B was the addition of RPN selection.

                  
Re: HP 17Bii
Message #11 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 14 July 2003, 8:00 a.m.,
in response to message #6 by Eric

Eric posted:"Luiz, Do you know if the 17bii has the functions LET ang GET as the HP27S?"

I'm not Luiz, so excuse me for not minding my own business, but I think this answers your question:

"The solver in this machine is exactly the same as that of the 19bii and includes all 19bii functions even if not documented, including Let and Get."

Solver Functions:

G(a) get value of a L(a:v) assign value v to a

Source: http://www.finseth.com/~fin/hpdata/hp17bii.html

'I also did not know about the undocumented "L()" and "G()" (Let and Get) functions. I strongly encourage anyone who would like to program the 17BII to buy the CD-ROMs from the HP Museum in order to obtain the "Technical Applications" book for the 27S and 19B. The undocumented "Let" and "Get" functions are described, as well as methods of executing looping---these functions open-up programming options that were not conceivable before! For instance: definite loops and invisible, temporary variable assignments. Definitely a MUST READ!

Source: http://www.hpmuseum.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/hpmuseum/articles.cgi?read=222

Best regards from V.

                        
Re: HP 17Bii LET and GET
Message #12 Posted by Eric on 14 July 2003, 10:16 a.m.,
in response to message #11 by Valentin Albillo

Thank you all for your answers:

And yes the let and get functions allow to manage assigning values or expressions to variable names and reuse them. Togheter with sigma, solve for, and IF functions they allow pretty good capabilities of seudo-programing within the HP-27s.

What I am wondering also is if the new coming hp17bii plus is going to offer the same, if so added trigs will almost offer an hp27s replacement.

Thanks again Eric

                              
Re: No, the Hp17Bii or + won't replace a 27s
Message #13 Posted by RR on 14 July 2003, 11:13 a.m.,
in response to message #12 by Eric

And heres why. Hp will keep their business line Algebraic WITHOUT precidence. And that Sucks! And because of this, even if you were to write trig routines, the calculator's algebraic enrtry system is poor. Of course the newer Bii's offer RPN selection which is the only way to go. If the 27s had been RPN selectable, it would have trounced the 32s in sales (at about the same price it should have, since it came with 7 K RAM).

                        
Thanks Valentin, guys!
Message #14 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 14 July 2003, 4:17 p.m.,
in response to message #11 by Valentin Albillo

Hi all;

as I mentioned, I had not seen any reference about GET and LET in the original, standard HP17BII manual. But now I know where to find them; thanks.

Valentin and other brainy guys (everyone in here?): please, if any of you have to chance to answer to any question primarily addressed to me, I'd be flattered and honored. Mostly if it is to complete some unfinished answers of mine.

Thank you all.

Luiz (Brazil)


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