The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 13

[ Return to Index | Top of Index ]

General Voyager display question
Message #1 Posted by jimc on 3 July 2003, 10:01 a.m.

While running a self test, my 10C showed some annunciators not listed in the manual.

They are: USER g BEGIN D.MY C

I know what the USER, g, and the D.MY are, but what are the others? While I am certain these are in the 11/12/15/16 series, it leads me to wonder why they are displayed as active, if the function is not in the calculator.

      
Re: General Voyager display question
Message #2 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 3 July 2003, 10:05 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by jimc

The display hardware is the same for all vintage Voyager models, so probably the software part of the ROM which does the display test is the same as well for all of them.

BEGIN is used in the HP-12C (begin/end), and C is used in the HP-15C (complex mode) and HP-16C (carry) IIRC.

Best regards.

            
Re: General Voyager display question
Message #3 Posted by Thibaut.be on 3 July 2003, 10:19 a.m.,
in response to message #2 by Valentin Albillo

Well, your 10C is totally screwed up.

I would agree to buy it as salvage ofr USD 50. Ok for you ?

                  
Thibaut, my friend, don't be greedy! :D
Message #4 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 3 July 2003, 12:20 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Thibaut.be

Offer a little more or he will salle it to someone else!

You're a bad guy!

About the annunciators: to add a few more information to the one Valentin correctly posted. As a man of Voyagers, he nows it well, I'm just reinforcing.

The "C" annunciator is used bu the HP12C as well, to indicate that odd periods will be considered in compound interest calculations. [STO][EEX] in an HP12C toggles its state from ON (visible) to OFF.

In the HP16C, "C" indicates a carry or borrow condition when arithmetic with binaries is accomplished or any bit manipulation shifts/rotates a "1" bit through (or into) the carry bit.

Valentin's answer is complete, I just want to participate on it :^) (I'm a nosy guy, shame on me...)

Best regards.

Luiz (Brazil)

                        
Re: Thibaut, my friend, don't be greedy! :D
Message #5 Posted by Thibaut.be on 4 July 2003, 9:16 a.m.,
in response to message #4 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil)

Well, I'm sure everybody took my comment as ironical...

I'm just, like a lot of us, jealous (albeit happy for him) that jim owns a calc I've never been able to come to in all these years !

This is compensated by the fact that I've found a mint 10...

                              
Re: Thibaut, my friend, don't be greedy! :D
Message #6 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 4 July 2003, 9:48 a.m.,
in response to message #5 by Thibaut.be

Thibaut posted:

"I'm just, like a lot of us, jealous (albeit happy for him) that jim owns a calc I've never been able to come to in all these years !"

As Wlodek says in his wonderful "A Guide to HP Handheld Calculators and Computers", "It is remarkably difficult to find". If they were that difficult to find in 1996, just imagine how hard it can be now: dogs chew on them, toddlers throw them against the nearest floor or wall, ex-girlfriends never return them, eBay astronomic prices, etc.

Yet, I own two and Patrick owns three ... so it can be done, it's just a matter of time and a quick sleigh-of-hand when you happen to find one over someone else's table, unattended , kinda that old Woody Allen's movie, "Take the HP-10C and run" ... :-)

Best regards from V.

Edited: 4 July 2003, 9:50 a.m.

                                    
How rare is it really?
Message #7 Posted by Patrick on 4 July 2003, 1:33 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by Valentin Albillo

Actually, I don't think the HP-10C is as unattainable as we are all giving it out to be. If you look at eBay activity just over the last couple of months you would have seen maybe 6-8 sold. The mint/nib ones sold very high -- $300+ -- but there were at least two of the others under $200 -- about $150 for one without manual and $173 for one with a manual.

These prices are in the same ballpark as a decent 11C, so if someone really wanted a 10C, they surely are attainable -- relatively speaking. For me, and perhaps for others, I sometimes find it hard to bid on a 10C -- especially a mint one -- when that would take serious money away from what I could bid on a nice 15C! While rare, I like to actually use my acquisitions, and the 10C is limited enough to be a little on the frustrating side whenever you have the need to write a program.

And, just to correct the record a wee bit -- Valentin must have confused my thinking about bidding on a 10C with actually having won it. You see, I still have only(!) two 10C's. One was an extremely fortunate Buy-It-Now at $20. The second was a normal eBay auction which I went after primarily to get a copy of the manual. Unless I see another Buy-It-Now, or get lucky at a thrift store, I'm likely to stay with my current holding!

                                          
Re: How rare is it really?
Message #8 Posted by jimc on 4 July 2003, 7:59 p.m.,
in response to message #7 by Patrick

In response to Patrick's posting, I can't say that it is a calculator that is ALL that rare. What tickled me was the price (and the thrill of the "kill"), but I am seeing the limitations that Patrick has described. Nonetheless, as I stated in my earlier post, I will use this little fellow daily as a replacement for my number crunching when my 41 just isn't convenient. I think I would have preferred a 15, but users can't be choosers...

I tend to look at this not as a shirtpocket 41, but rather like my old 21 Pumpkin. Fairly basic, but excellent for quick and dirty's. Just a little handier in the daylight. That it is slightly rare makes it all the sweeter to use.

(BTW, I found the answer to the original posting in the manual hidden in subtext at the bottom of the page. I guess a fella just has to RTFM). Again, thanks to all for help.

                                                
Re: How rare is it really?
Message #9 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 5 July 2003, 1:53 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by jimc

Hi, JimC;

May I?

Quote:
I tend to look at this not as a shirtpocket 41, but rather like my old 21 Pumpkin. Fairly basic, but excellent for quick and dirty's.

I know you are not comparing, just relating one to another. Your post just called my attention to the fact that I'd compare the HP10C to a sophisticated HP25C or a low-resourced HP33C with LCD display, because the HP10C is programmable and the HP21 is not.

Sophisticated HP25C because the HP10C adds few enhancements you may use or not: memory check, mantissa, dot/comma selection for radix mark, self test, amongst others. I mentioned a low-resourced HP33C because the HP10C does not have subroutine calls, neither available in the HP25C.

And the HP10C available RAM is composed of shared 70 steps/ten registers memory plus nine permanently available program steps (bytes), which is physically less than what the HP25C has, but if you manage to take advantage over the "automatic movable partition", you can do things with the HP10C you cannot do with an HP25C or 33C: store nine or ten different numbers in memory registers, create programs with more than 49 steps and some unique combinations.

I must confess I'm almost getting to a point that any additional calculator to the ones I have will be greedy possession. Not that I have all models available, instead I own the ones I consider the most significant tools for the job, and oppositely to Norm, I prefer LCD to LED's.

I repeat, I'm no calculator's collector, I rather collect data. I wrote all of this about the HP10C by heart. I do not own one of them and I would not like to, actually, because I'd not use it. I cannot think of having an extraordinary original HP calculator (not a Kimpo-clone) in my possession and not allow it to do what it does better: serve as a top-tech, sophisticated state-of-the-art personal computing device.

I must thank to some contributors, guys I have in great consideration. They helped me a lot in adding some important units to the ones I own. I'm currently taking some spare time (when I have some) to read the HP71B documentation; not that I intend developing sophisticated BASIC programs, but I intend to understand and use it as deep as I can so I'll be able to help HP71B owners if there is no expert available when questions about it start new threads. And I'm waiting for an HP75 to be delivered so I can do the same with it.

I would not feel O.K. with myself if I could only look at these calculators trough glass "shields". I have absolutely nothing against those who keep them this way; I myself would not be able to.

Wow! I wrote too much (whatelse is new...) and I explored subjects ahead of the original thread. If you think this post must be removed, I'll use 12345 for password. (but I'll keep a copy of it in my HD).

Best regards.

Luiz (Brazil)

P.S. - Valentin, have you already written "Long Live the HP10C!"? I think "she" is the one "who" deserves better.

Edited: 5 July 2003, 3:40 a.m.

                                                      
Re: How rare is it really?
Message #10 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 5 July 2003, 11:10 p.m.,
in response to message #9 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil)

Luiz posted:

"I'm currently taking some spare time (when I have some) to read the HP71B documentation; not that I intend developing sophisticated BASIC programs, but I intend to understand and use it as deep as I can so I'll be able to help HP71B owners if there is no expert available when questions about it start new threads."

Get an HP-71 Math ROM. Without it, you don't have a whole HP-71B, just 2/3 of it. The Math ROM was to be included internally, but someone decided that it needed a CALC feature, which gobbled large amounts of ROM, so the matrix functions and complex numbers capabilities had to go. Still, they couldn't remove it completely without rewriting large portions of ROM code, so there are plenty of hooks and remains still left. For instance, try to enter this line:

10 A=(2,3)+(4,5)

and you'll see no syntax error appears, because although the 71B per se can't add those two complex numbers nor assign the result to a real variable, it still recognizes them and enters the line into program memory. Attempt to execute that line will give an "XFN not found" error if the Math ROM isn't present. The Math ROM offers so many advanced capabilites which can be used in so many powerful ways, out of the realm of their nominal use, that no HP-71B is worth its salt without it.

"P.S. - Valentin, have you already written "Long Live the HP10C!"? I think "she" is the one "who" deserves better."

Sort of ... but I can't give any further details without spoiling it all ... :-)

Best regards from V.

                                                            
Thank you.
Message #11 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 6 July 2003, 12:11 a.m.,
in response to message #10 by Valentin Albillo

Hi, Valentin;

thank you for the valuable tip. I'll search for this ROM module, for sure.

I'm looking forward to know about (and read) your new paper.

Best regards.

Luiz (Brazil)

            
Re: General Voyager display question
Message #12 Posted by jimc on 3 July 2003, 10:53 a.m.,
in response to message #2 by Valentin Albillo

Thanks Valentin!


[ Return to Index | Top of Index ]

Go back to the main exhibit hall