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HP Forum Archive 13

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Voyager Logo Transfer
Message #1 Posted by Patrick on 19 May 2003, 3:52 p.m.

I have two HP-15C's. One is in very nice condition, other than the fact that it is missing the HP logo / badge. The other is in ok condition (some scratches/indents on the metal bezel) but, you guessed it, it has a pristine logo.

Of course, I would like to move the logo from one machine to the other.

Does anyone out there have experience doing something like this? How is the removal performed safely? Am I likely to ruin the badge? There are so many Voyagers on eBay with missing logos that I'm thinking it can't be that hard to get the darn thing off!

      
Re: Voyager Logo Transfer
Message #2 Posted by Ellis Easley on 19 May 2003, 3:57 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Patrick

I once got some replacement logos from EduCalc that came with very thin double sided foam tape on them, I've never been able to find foam tape that thin (not just clear double sided tape which would be too thin).

From what I have seen, HP used something like RTV to attach them at the factory. That's the kind of job where you need to make sure you apply just enough, and not too much, to stick without creating a mess. (in a factory setting)

Someone here has recommended using ShoeGoo for the purpose.

            
Re: Voyager Logo Transfer
Message #3 Posted by Ellis Easley on 19 May 2003, 4:00 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Ellis Easley

Forgot to say, it should pry off pretty easily with your fingernail or something narrow to get in the gap. You should find that the logo is "floating" in a shallow pit.

            
Re: Voyager Logo Transfer
Message #4 Posted by Katie on 19 May 2003, 7:43 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Ellis Easley

The tape that I use for this and lotS of other calculator repairs is carpet tape. It's very thin, super strong and incredibly cheap. Try it you'll like it!

            
Re: Thin Double-stick
Message #5 Posted by Paul Brogger on 19 May 2003, 7:48 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Ellis Easley

I've been using "carpet tape" in some applications, and it works very well. It's thin, heavier than regular "Scotch tape", clear, and very double-stick. It comes in a too-big roll, with white backing. (It's meant to hold rugs in place so they won't slide.)

I think it would be adequate for holding logo plates on pampered Voyagers . . .

                  
Re: Thin Double-stick
Message #6 Posted by Randy Sloyer on 19 May 2003, 9:29 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Paul Brogger

Some of the Voyager logo plates are etched zinc, not molded plastic. They are commonly found on early versions, before big production quantities got cranking.

You'll need to use glue, as the badge is hollow. The edges will not provide enough surface area for a secure bond with double-stick'em.

                        
the problem is getting it off.
Message #7 Posted by NH on 20 May 2003, 1:35 a.m.,
in response to message #6 by Randy Sloyer

You guys are telling him how to stick it back on. That's easy, doublesided 3M tape, but the problem is how to get the logo OFF.

I will now speculate, having zero experience:

Method #1: Get the frame taken all the way apart, bend the tar out of the metal, until the logo peels away from the metal.

Method #2: Use a brand-new single-edged razor blade to gently slide under the logo, presumably, cutting thru the doublesided tape or the epoxy that is already there.

Method #3: X-acto knife, cut into at just one edge, then use it as a pry-bar , if its an epoxy-bond, it will all of a sudden pop-off of there.

                              
dont forget about method #4
Message #8 Posted by NH on 20 May 2003, 1:44 a.m.,
in response to message #7 by NH

dont forget about method #4

this can solve no end of calculator ailments:

1. Carefully balance the calculator atop the train tracks of the mainline Burlington Northern going thru town.

2. Wait for the train to come thru.

3. After the train has passed, everything should be okey-dokey.

:o]

Don't forget, since there are two rails, it is possible to fix two calculators simultaneously using this technique.

                              
why not epoxy
Message #9 Posted by NH on 20 May 2003, 1:48 a.m.,
in response to message #7 by NH

also, there is a push here to use 3M double-sided tapes, BUT, arent they kind of goooey , and a little too thick?

Whats wrong with gently roughing up the metal surface, and also, roughing up the back of the plastic logo (sandpaper roughing is needed for establishing a mechanical bond with epoxies). When roughing the metal, could use some masking tape to rough only the area where the bond is desired. (oooooh smarter yet, drill little teeny holes that allow the epoxy to push thru)

Go ahead and use a colored 2-part epoxy. Shucks, use clear if that suits. Apply a sufficiently thin amount that the logo can be pressed down the correct amount, such that the side-squeeze-out is not objectionable, so that you dont get into trying to touch the epoxy and smooth it over (bad idea) try to get a bead that is slightly squeezing out, then leave it alone.

All things considered, I think thats what I would do. Any 'big box' home hardware store has got 2-part epoxies in all sorts of color blends.

                                    
Re: why not epoxy
Message #10 Posted by james on 20 May 2003, 8:29 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by NH

Be very careful to use only a very miniscule amount of expoxy if using method #4 to prevent too much side squeeze out as your pride and joy might get stuck to the rest of the train and disappear.

                              
Re: the problem is getting it off.
Message #11 Posted by Ellis Easley on 20 May 2003, 5:43 p.m.,
in response to message #7 by NH

"Method #1: Get the frame taken all the way apart, bend the tar out of the metal, until the logo peels away from the metal."

I don't know whether this would alter your plans, but the logo is actually glued to the plastic of the case top. It sits in a square hole cut in the aluminum bezel.

                  
Re: Thin Double-stick(HP41 feet)
Message #12 Posted by Chris(FLA) on 20 May 2003, 9:42 a.m.,
in response to message #5 by Paul Brogger

I've been using "carpet tape" in some applications, and it works very well. It's thin, heavier than regular "Scotch tape", clear, and very double-stick. It comes in a too-big roll, with white backing.

I have my originaly bought 41 (2051AXXXXX - high top keys) that I opened years ago (I like to know how things like this are made). I opened the unit a couple more times and then used a double sided tape that turned to goo and the feet feel off. The tape also softened the feet. I will get the "carpet tape" but my question is:

What do you folks use for new feet? I read awhile back about bicycle tubes. But this seems like it will be somewhat ugly. You know tire tubes aren't designed to be seen and have powder on them.

Has anybody found anything better for this fix?

This is my prized unit that never leaves the house and I would like to return it to "near" new looking condition.

Any suggestions very, very welcome.

Thanks,
Chris

                        
Feet -- Consider getting them made
Message #13 Posted by Norm on 20 May 2003, 1:01 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by Chris(FLA)

When U bring up the topic of new rubber feet, this seems quite pertinent. I sold an HP-25C to a happy buyer, but in noting that the unit was well-worn, one of the most worn portions was the feet, and I wished there was a way of replacing them.

So far, I have just felt lucky and thankful, everytime I buy a used HP-34C and the feet are in pretty good shape. But perpetual hope is not the way to build a railroad .

HERE's my suggestions:

1. If there are units that have ivory feet (hp-25C) then be willing to substitute black material. That is, always go with black, even if it wasn't originally. That type of alteration is too minor to perceive, and it avoids trying to locate oddball colors.

2. At least some products could use ordinary "3M" rubber feet, which are extremely mass-produced, stuck to the bottom of millions of items made currently, and available from Digi-Key etc etc in many shapes and thicknesses.

3. Even if you could locate the material (a sheet or roll-stock) I doubt you could cut it acceptably by any manual method. It would look terrible. You need a cutting die that cuts under pressure.

4. Expecting that you CANNOT get a suitable match, and noting that the original feet were die-cut, here is what I personally would suggest doing........... Go to an authentic die-cut shop (they make labels and other cutouts on roll-stock) and PAY THEM to make authentic rubber feet. The problem is your tooling charge. Well, they might want $400 to prepare dies that cover a variety of HP calculators. Well, make sure that the top 10 HP applications are covered, thru a variety of die sizes. NOW, find 9 buddies who feel the same way, and split up the costs, so its only $40 each, and now you have got rubber feet.

I can't think of anything else on this subject. Maybe somebody else knows where to buy an authentic exact match without creating it full-custom.

It would be fairly trivial to locate the bulk (sheet/roll) stock, just by asking a rubber foot vendor to part with some material, or locating it as a commodity. The problem is cutting it up.

                              
Which ones would be most popular ?
Message #14 Posted by Bob on 20 May 2003, 2:26 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by Norm

I have access to the expertise required to fabricate a cutting die. If I had a set of die cutters made, what would the most popular footprints ?

I assume: 41, 42, 34, 45. What else ?

Bob

                                    
Re: Which ones would be most popular ?
Message #15 Posted by Patrick on 20 May 2003, 3:11 p.m.,
in response to message #14 by Bob

Since I started this thread about Voyagers, I have to say that the Voyager series would be a good one to support!

There are a bunch of models in the series, all of which take the exact same feet. The fact that one of the models (12C) is still in production and selling well means that there would likely be even more demand for this foot than others (I dunno if 12C platinum uses the same feet... anybody?).

One of my (pampered) Voyagers is missing a foot as well that I would sure like to fix with a quality replacement.

                                    
Re: Which ones would be most popular ?
Message #16 Posted by Ellis Easley on 20 May 2003, 5:38 p.m.,
in response to message #14 by Bob

71B, 75C/D, 82143A printer for HP41C, 82161A tape drive and 82162A printer for HPIL all use the same type of rectangular, flat rubber foot, in different dimensions.

Also, Pioneers had different rubber feet at different times or on different models (all made as strips with rounded ends). Of the ones I have, most have one long strip about 1/4" wide near the top, then two short narrower strips at the bottom, side by side. But one of mine, a 14B, has a narrower long strip at the top and two pairs of even narrower short strips at the bottom (one of each pair above the other). I don't know if this variation is by model or by year, since you would think the different models would share the case bottom, and all the feet fit in recesses molded in the case bottom.

BTW, the original feet (at least the rectangulat flat ones) are made in two layers: thin vinyl on the inside, rubber on the outside. I guess this is to match adhesives to materials better. The joint between the vinyl and the rubber is another layer of adhesive.

                                    
Re: Which ones would be most popular ?
Message #17 Posted by Holger Weihe on 20 May 2003, 6:30 p.m.,
in response to message #14 by Bob

I have about 20 HP calculators now. Only one of them is missing a rubber food: The HP-49G which is the newest of them all. And it's not only missing one food - ALL OF THEM have dissapeared...

I hope that the rubber keys also dissapear over time. ;-)

To stay with the subject: If there was a self-adhesive rubber sheet of the right thickness, it should be possible to cut out fitting feet with a sharp knive. Would they really look so terrible?

Holger

                                          
Re: Which ones would be most popular ?
Message #18 Posted by Ellis Easley on 20 May 2003, 11:42 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Holger Weihe

I don't think so - especially the rectangular ones, you should be able to do about as well as a die with a sharp knife blade.

                        
Re: Thin Double-stick(HP41 feet)
Message #19 Posted by David Smith on 20 May 2003, 4:34 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by Chris(FLA)

Go to the garden center of your local Home Depot. You will find a big roll of EPDM roofing rubber for use in lining garden ponds. A linear foot (15 feet wide!) costs $15. If you are carful, you can probably cut more than one calculator foot out of it.

For Woodstock feet used a Sanford eraser from an office supply store. They come in several styles and colors. One is a very close match for them birdie feet.

      
Re: Voyager Logo Transfer
Message #20 Posted by Erik Wahlin (USA) on 20 May 2003, 1:39 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Patrick

Patrick I have a spare unused logo I got from Jim Carter a while back. Contact me if you would like to purchase at a reasonable price. Regards, Erik

      
Re: Voyager Logo Transfer
Message #21 Posted by David Smith on 20 May 2003, 4:37 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Patrick

To remove all things adhesive use a substance called UnDu available at most office supply stores. It causes adhesives to temporarily become unsticky. Place a drop in the logo well and a drop on a exacto knife blade. Slide the blade under the logo and (if it was held down with sticky adhesive and not glue) it should come up easily. Keep the UnDu off of the keyboard background as it can leave "water" marks.

      
Re: Voyager Logo Transfer
Message #22 Posted by dave on 21 May 2003, 1:45 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Patrick

From my experience, either of the following is likely to liberate the logo:

1) Use the calculator in a public place. Pay no attention to the logo (this is important). It will fall off. Have a friend follow you to look for the logo.

2) Spend days restoring your more worn calc to pristine condition. Show it off to a friend. The logo will fall off.

Good luck,

Dave

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