HP Forum Archive 12

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Topcat: country of manufacture Message #1 Posted by Renato on 30 Apr 2003, 10:45 p.m. I have 97 and 91 made in Brazil. I was surprised that they were manufactured here, as I never saw these in 70s and 80s. The 97 service manual says that they had A,B or S country codes (USA, Brazil and Singapore, respectively). Do you brazilian guys have brazilian made topcats ? What about you from other countries ?

Re: Topcat: country of manufacture Message #2 Posted by David Smith on 1 May 2003, 4:20 p.m., in response to message #1 by Renato I have seen two "B" machines out of about 100 HP91/92/97/97S machines.

Re: Topcat: country of manufacture Message #3 Posted by Renato on 1 May 2003, 9:50 p.m., in response to message #2 by David Smith 2 in 100. Looks like most were sold in Brazil. What about "A" vs "S" ?

Re: Topcat: country of manufacture Message #4 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 1 May 2003, 11:00 p.m., in response to message #3 by Renato Hi; I have both HP67 and HP97 original user's guides, and they are both in English, bought in a used bookstore in Petrópolis, in the end fo the 80's (I remember they were cheap enough I could buy some other HP-related manuals). They are both in English, but I guess they came with calculators bought in Brazil. I also have four original Spices manuals, all in "Brazilian" Portuguese. Have the manuals been sold in one single, English version? My HP55 has an original Portuguese manual, printed in USA. Weird! Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

Re: Topcat: country of manufacture Message #5 Posted by Renato on 2 May 2003, 1:28 p.m., in response to message #4 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) My dad´s long lost 21 was SN1608B20797. Manual is 00021-90008, in Portuguese, printed in USA, March 1975. There is a error in the first page: "Proprietario" is written as "Propietario".

Re: Topcat: country of manufacture Message #6 Posted by David Smith on 2 May 2003, 6:10 p.m., in response to message #3 by Renato "A" and "S" machines seem to be split 50-50. Later production are virtually all "S" machines, earlier ones "A" machines. This seems to hold for most HP production. I have seen a couple of "B" HP21's, but not any of the other woodstocks or spice series. I have also seen a few machines with mismatched codes/countries. One of the HP21 "B" machines said Made-in-USA. Several "S" numbered HP97's said USA. I think most of the HP-97S I/O machines have conflicting labels.

Woodstock: country of manufacture Message #7 Posted by Renato on 3 May 2003, 12:07 a.m., in response to message #6 by David Smith I have a "B" 29C, made in Brazil. I know about "B" made in Brazil 25s (don´t have any currently). Have the mismatched code/country units been repaired ? What would happen if a "B" machine went under service in USA ? Also, someone has a 41cx with a "B" code, although only 41c and cv have been marketed in Brazil. My guess is that the back was changed, because it did no make sense to export calculators from Brazil (long story, off-topic).

Woodstock: interchangeable back halfcase Message #8 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 3 May 2003, 2:15 a.m., in response to message #7 by Renato Hi Renato, Guys; about Woodstocks and Spices and most Pioneers: the back of them is interchangealbe and there is no way to check for it, unless you get the original equipment with that serial number. I have at least two original Woodstock's backcase and I thrown away a Spice broken backcase (about half of it missing, right in the battery compartment; not recoverable) and I used another one's in the working machine. A new serial number, probably a new origin. About the CX: its back label is different of the C/CV one, as it shows ED's keyboard instead of ALPHA keyboard. One can change a C backcase with a CV's, but it's not possible with the CX, unless he is successful removing the back label and replacing it. I think if there were CX's made in Brazil, and I agree it's unlikely as a past event, they were intended only for exportation (remember Passat Export-Only, made in Brazil, Renato?). As Renato mentioned and I add another mentioning, neither the HP41CX nor the HP16C were commercialized in Brazil. The ones found here were somehow "imported" and Brazilian Hewlett-Packard never offered local maintenance for these models. Just a few more data. Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

completely O.T. re: export only Message #9 Posted by Ellis Easley on 3 May 2003, 6:32 a.m., in response to message #8 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) Except to say that I got a very nice 12C made in Brazil on Ebay, $15.99 BIN. But back off the topic, years ago I heard about the BBC computer but I never saw one here in the U.S. Last year I got one on Ebay from Australia. When I went looking for info on the web, I found quite a bit - most of the manuals had been scanned and OCR'd (except for the drawings which were included as .jpg files), not that they were that big. One thing I found was very interesting: a scan of an ad from the early 1980's offering for sale, in England, BBC computers (the original one, either the A or B version) that had been made for export to the U.S. where they didn't sell, so they were brought back to England and converted to the UK version. This would have involved at least changing the video chip to PAL from NTSC and changing the power supply from 110 to 220 - this wouldn't actually be a big problem by itself, my unit had an Astec power supply configured for 220 which just didn't have the jumper option installed to switch between 110 and 220, so all I had to do was add a wire. Most line operated switching power supplies run on about 400V DC and are built with a bridge rectifier and two 250V electrolytic capacitors in series, with ~100K resistors across each one to equalize the voltage and serve as bleeders. It only takes moving one of the AC line leads from the "corner" of the bridge to the node between the two capacitors to convert it to a voltage doubler so you can operate it on 110V. The 110V power supplies in the BBC computers were probably dual voltage units jumpered for 110, so they would just have had to open up the power supply chassis and move the jumper. However, if the safety rules in the UK are like the US, doing that modification would require the unit to be safety tested again (HiPot ground continuity/insulation leakage test or similar). A couple of us got good deals on samples of 220V Tandy video monitors once. Converting them to 110 was a bit of a pain because they had a single electrolytic capacitor so I had to find a way to mount two capacitors and add two bleeder resistors.

Re: Woodstock: interchangeable back halfcase Message #10 Posted by David Smith on 3 May 2003, 2:18 p.m., in response to message #8 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) The CX back works just fine on a C or CV... the label is not all that different. Also the labels are not difficult to remove and replace... especially with my favorite goo-be-gone-for-a-while UnDu. The machines with the mixed date codes on the back have the date code and the "Made in" text factory stamped in the case. Definitely not a case of swapped cases.

UnDu and something else Message #11 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 3 May 2003, 2:56 p.m., in response to message #10 by David Smith Hi, David; you're right about the CX back: I did not mention they are all the same, even from fullnuts to halfnuts (except for the beeper that is "fiercely" glued with a double-sided tape). And this leads me to the UnDu question: can you post the lab name or the brand? I remember I requested this data and the chemical component(s) before, and you answered promptly (thank you), but I cannot find it anymore. I tried to find something equivalent in Brazil, but it seems it is not available as a final product. I'll try to find the lab and ask if they have a similar product sold in Brazil. And David, thank you sharing information about HP internals and correcting my mistakes. Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

Re: UnDu and 41 case backs Message #12 Posted by Randy Sloyer on 3 May 2003, 7:40 p.m., in response to message #11 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) I have found David's favorite goo-be-gone solvent Un-Do to be the first thing I reach for when it comes to anything sticky. David has said it is a very expense repackaging of the solvent Heptane. Whatever it is, it is worth the money. Not that this helps Luiz, but I have found it in 4 oz bottles in the craft departments of Wal-Mart for the same $4.99 that 1 oz containers sell for in the local hardware store. Just a mention on the 41 case backs, I have seen early C models to be physically different with respect to logic board clamping. The case back has flat areas that exert pressure on the logic board by means of thick nylon spacers over the post. The screw boss area is flat. The later models have a small tube that extends from the boss down to press on the logic board. They are interchangeable so long as all the hardware stays with the back in question.

I forgot these ones... Message #13 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 3 May 2003, 8:07 p.m., in response to message #12 by Randy Sloyer Hello, Randy; you're right. There are earlier 41C's with two nuts (externaly threatened to the bottom screw posts) that hold the mainboard. These earlier C's are externaly diferent because they have those top-keys, right? And their backhalves cannot be used with the later fullnuts because they cannot press the mainboard against the zebra connector. Thank you, I actualy forgot those. Luiz C. Vieira - Brazil

Re: UnDu and 41 case backs Message #14 Posted by David Smith on 4 May 2003, 5:52 p.m., in response to message #12 by Randy Sloyer The HP41 case backs with the flat bottom posts are for the machines with the CPU card held down by nuts (or big fat washers). These machines have a third type of back label with a simpler, slighty less cluttered layout.

Re: UnDu and something else Message #15 Posted by David Smith on 4 May 2003, 5:50 p.m., in response to message #11 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) UnDu is the solvent heptane. It is made in the USA by a company called... UnDu (I think). I causes any adhesive to loose its stickum for a few seconds until it evaporates. Removes those pesky beepers in a pinch. Some types of rubber cement thinner are heptane (others are hexane). Undo is sold in small 1-2oz bottles for around $5. Rubber cement thinner is 16-32 oz for the same chemical. It is also vey cheap from chemical supply houses.

Re: Topcat: country of manufacture Message #16 Posted by Alex on 2 May 2003, 12:16 p.m., in response to message #1 by Renato There must have been quite a few HP97 machines made in Brazil. I've been keeping an informal record of serial numbers I observe on the net, eBay, etc. I've seen six HP97 machines with the "B" country of manufacture: 2006B64xxx, 2012B67xxx, 2103B69xxx, 2201B11xxx, 2208B09xxx, and 2301B14xxx. According to the HP97 service manual, the date coding is first two digits for number of years after 1960, and second two digits for the month number (_not_ week number) of manufacture. Alex, www.calcmuseum.com

Re: Topcat: country of manufacture Message #17 Posted by Renato on 2 May 2003, 1:42 p.m., in response to message #16 by Alex Alex, thank you very much. My 97 is 1804B48120 - older than the ones you´ve seen. I don´t plan to sell it on ebay, but you can keep the number in your informal record if you want. What about 91 and 92 ? Have you seen any of those ?

Re: Topcat: country of manufacture Message #18 Posted by Alex on 5 May 2003, 11:52 a.m., in response to message #17 by Renato Hi Renato, No, I haven't seen any "B" HP-91 or HP-92 machines. Mostly "A", and a few "S". Alex www.calcmuseum.com

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