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HP Forum Archive 10

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About the unpoliteness of User48
Message #1 Posted by R Lion on 1 Feb 2003, 5:13 a.m.

Some days ago I posted here "Just to share happiness" saying that I've got a 42s... I have read other posts in this way and it's very usual in a mechanical watches forum that I frequently visit.

Well, I posted the same in comp.sys.hp48. Please read the answers of User48 and compare them with the answers of Luiz in this forum...

Raul

      
Re: About the unpoliteness of User48
Message #2 Posted by R Lion on 1 Feb 2003, 5:38 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by R Lion

I'm afraid that my answer will be unpolite too >:)

      
Re: About the unpoliteness of User48
Message #3 Posted by Christof on 1 Feb 2003, 5:10 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by R Lion

My news access is being buggy, so I haven't read the reply, but IIRC, User48 is one of the non-native english speakers. Is this what you are getting at?

            
Re: About the unpoliteness of User48
Message #4 Posted by R Lion on 1 Feb 2003, 5:22 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Christof

Sorry I can't understand what you say about non-native english speakers...like me. And I suppose that user48@yahoo.co.uk is english. But my proble is not the language: I hope you can use the link for reading the thread. Raul

http://groups.google.com/groups?dq=&hl=es&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=b1f5ba59.0302010233.2359d834%40posting.google.com&prev=/groups%3Fas_ugroup%3Dcomp.sys.hp48

                  
Re: Confused About the unpoliteness of User48 and Luiz
Message #5 Posted by Christof on 1 Feb 2003, 5:42 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by R Lion

I'm not sure I understand the point.

Luiz responds with happiness and questions similar to those of Bill Storey, User48 responds with a rather inane comment that isn't worth the time to bring into another forum (IMO, you might feel a bit more hot about it.)

I'd assumed you were trying to tie identities together in your first post, now I'm wondering if you aren't trying to do a contrast? Not that it is necessary, the person known as User48 is pretty inane on his own.

                        
Re: Confused About the unpoliteness of User48 and Luiz
Message #6 Posted by R Lion on 1 Feb 2003, 6:06 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Christof

Sorry Christoff: My knowledge of english language is limited, so when the post uses more than only "technical english" I feel a little bit lost... so I'm sorry if I'm not understanding you or you are not understanding me because my english.

I'm not trying to tie identities together.

I'm not trying to do a contrast (?)

You say: "the person known as User48 is pretty inane on his own". Well, perhaps you know, but I'm only saying this:

The answers of Luiz, Bill and VPN are normal answers in this kind of forums.

The answer of User48 is a rude and unnecessary nonsense (IMO)

Best regards Raul

                              
Just a bit of...
Message #7 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 1 Feb 2003, 7:42 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by R Lion

... whatever;

Hola, Raul; como estás? Christof? Are you well?

David, please, forgive-em touching this point again, because it's not this forum's focus, but you know that sometimes I pull it a bit off line so we can understand that there is another being at the other side of the line exactly like us and reading what we are writing. I sometimes read what I don't want to, but I'm sure I'm writing stuff with the purpose of being read and cause the best reaction.

I'd like to have a chance to be in a meeting with everybody in this forum, you know? I've already made a few intl. calls just to have a chance to talk to some guys in here (actually five, so far). I like keeping communication at a voice level, it seems to be the best way. Also, we would all be able to show ourselves to each other.

And I feel not even a bit of scare when daring to dream about this possibility because I am exactly the same person I try to express when writing.

And the only way to proof it is by having the chance to be with others. I used to be afraid of the language barrier, but there are so many languages (even when programming) that we must just take care with our feelings when writing (or speaking) and everything else is gonna be fine.

Maybe others do not agree with, but I'll keep posting for as long as I believe it's useful somehow, even if some posts are just for fun. But I'm always using my own name: Luiz Cláudio Vieira. And I vouch everything I write under my name.

I know some guys may not like reading this, but I am interested only in those who will read this and feel comfortable with themselves. I cannot think there is "room" in this site for rage and madness. Not that we are a family in the very sense of the word, but all actual "contributors" in here want to take care of each other's ACTUAL calculator-related problems, when they do not offer themselves to solve them.

And this is too close to a family relationship. Actual family relationship.

I know I need to improve my English skills, but I am sure I am always trying to find a way to put everything in the best sense, from what I believe it is a good sense. Sometimes people confuse themselves with the way they express their feelings, but if we believe each one has his own purpose of doing what one believes is correct, so we may also have already done the same many times, without having the chance to get back and overwrite. What's done is done.

Raul, gracias; you mentioned my congratulations for adding an HP42S when you bought yours, right? I felt glad, because I know it's a good calculator and I like to know that guys like you, with the skills to use it, are able to have one. And I am sure you are one more head to help solving problems. I read a post a few days ago about the HP41 card reader, but Tony Duell, Gordon Dyer and David Smith were already there and helping. What would I do there? I read and felt myself relieved with the happy ending. Actually.

About others' rage? John and Paul wrote a song about what I feel in these situations:

"When I find myself in times of trouble, mother Mary comes to me speaking words of wisdom..."

Best regards.

                                    
Re: Just a bit of...
Message #8 Posted by R Lion on 2 Feb 2003, 3:04 a.m.,
in response to message #7 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil)

Ok Luiz: let's go about "ACTUAL calculator-related problems"

Thanks for the peace you bring.

Obrigado. Raul.

                                          
Re: Just a bit of... sharing!
Message #9 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 2 Feb 2003, 3:49 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by R Lion

And remember: sharing hapiness is in the menu.

Cheers and gracias, Raul.

(I want peace, and we all make it happen. ;-))

                              
Re: Confused About the unpoliteness of User48
Message #10 Posted by Dave Hicks on 1 Feb 2003, 9:45 p.m.,
in response to message #6 by R Lion

I think sometimes it can be too tempting to be able to speak under a cloak of anonymity. That said, in looking at "user48"s various posts under a number of names, I don't think any of them are really terribly harmful. Mostly he seems to use various aliases for disguised self-promotion, which I think is mostly harmless, or to make what Christof calls an inane comment without harming the reputation of his main identity. Now that these identities are known to me, I suspect the temptation will be reduced.

"User48" has another identity/persona, which I think has been very helpful to the community so I hope he will concentrate on that one in the future. (Think of User48 as a mild Mr. Hyde ;-))

                                    
Politeness, language, culture and tolerance
Message #11 Posted by Renato (Brazil) on 1 Feb 2003, 10:27 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by Dave Hicks

Very few people can say they never regret a post or a email message. It happens, and IMO, the best we can do is a- take a deep breath, b- Let it be

Politeness, sarcarsm, irony, humour, etc have deep roots in language and culture. Also, many flames are caused by inadequate humour in written form - the same humour could be acceptable on the phone, or face to face.

This forum is great. I suggest we use this episode to nurture tolerance among us. By the way, Brazil and brazilians most remarkable feature is Tolerance, and it makes me very proud.

                                    
Re: Confused About the unpoliteness of User48
Message #12 Posted by User48 on 2 Feb 2003, 1:44 a.m.,
in response to message #10 by Dave Hicks

Yes, I have another name and I can be any HP-48 user.

I just wanted to point that some threads in this forum (and comp.sys.hp48) aren't interesting for a larger audience and I appologize for the rude comments - it was intentional to bring people's attention.

I don't think that buying a piece of equipment is interesting for the whole world and I think that reporting a stolen picture has to be done in private (no, I am not selling anything via eBay and I don't use any of Dave's pictures).

What the forum needs are 'technical' about programming, hardware, etc.

But that is only my opinion - feel free to do everything as before.

And I appologize for my english if this matter.

                                          
forums
Message #13 Posted by Dave Hicks on 2 Feb 2003, 8:18 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by User48

I have expressed a willingness in the past to break this forum into sub forums - examples might be: RPL vs RPN, or special forums for certain popular models, or technical vs non-technical/social. However, in the past the feeling was that the traffic was moderate so no such split was required or even desirable. I tend to agree with this but I'm still open to this idea if the general mood shifts. One thing I'd hate to do is to create an over-specialized group that goes days without a post. A forum needs a certain amount "momentum" I think.

                                                
Re: forums
Message #14 Posted by R Lion on 3 Feb 2003, 1:57 a.m.,
in response to message #13 by Dave Hicks

My vote is for an only museum's forum. Thanks, Dave.

Raul

                                                
Re: forums
Message #15 Posted by Christof on 3 Feb 2003, 3:02 a.m.,
in response to message #13 by Dave Hicks

Dave- others,

I think that the single forum method is best overall. We have articles, bios, program posting forums for things that really need to go there. We have classifieds for things that need to go there, as well. That's quite a lot of division already.

All splitting into 3 or 4 *more* forums is going to do is make me look more places for my daily dose, and have to worry about whther or not what I'm posting is "allowed" in one forum over another.

-Christof

                                                
Re: forums
Message #16 Posted by Larry Corrado (USA, WI) on 3 Feb 2003, 7:26 a.m.,
in response to message #13 by Dave Hicks

I've only been following this forum for four or five months, but I think the single site is definitely the way to go. Dave is right about a forum needing the proper amount of "momentum." This sight has about the right amount. Also, having to check several sights would be extra unneeded trouble for many, maybe even most, of us.

Dave, thanks for all you do for the hobby.

Larry

                                                
Re: forums
Message #17 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 3 Feb 2003, 9:05 a.m.,
in response to message #13 by Dave Hicks

Dave: please keep it as only one forum (it is best in my opinion), and thank you again!

                                                
Re: forums
Message #18 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 3 Feb 2003, 9:42 a.m.,
in response to message #13 by Dave Hicks

I second the others. No one else complained so far, why to change something that is going on so well based on one's unreasonable actitude?

Please, keep it as it is.

Luiz Cláudio Vieira - Brazil

                                                      
Thanks everyone
Message #19 Posted by Dave Hicks on 3 Feb 2003, 3:55 p.m.,
in response to message #18 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil)

I'll keep it as-is for now.

                                                
Re: forums
Message #20 Posted by Silvio on 3 Feb 2003, 11:19 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by Dave Hicks

I'm very new here, but if I can vote… "Keep the unified format". It is very easy to browse through it, and the diversity of topics is one of its high points. One can came back to see if a question was answered and find that another totally unrelated and extremely interesting thread was formed. This kind of synergy is not easy to create.

                                    
Re: Confused About the unpoliteness of User48
Message #21 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 2 Feb 2003, 4:17 p.m.,
in response to message #10 by Dave Hicks

I would like to take advantage of this opportunity to, once more, congratulate Dave and say "thank you" to him again for all his effort in designing and maintaining this, HIS, site; and for welcoming us all, giving the chance to make friends, share experiences, and enjoy supporting fellow collectors or users around the world. He has even been extremely open and tolerant to some, not-so-well-intended postings; and deserves credit for this fact too.

On the photos usage on eBay without proper credit, I would say it not only violates Dave's intellectual property, but also could be misleading for eventual buyers; I doubt there are many calculators offered in such a good condition as Dave's photos show about his machines.

      
Re: about User48's unpoliteness - He Just Doesn't Get It!
Message #22 Posted by Bill Wiese on 2 Feb 2003, 2:33 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by R Lion

User48, you STILL don't GET it. This has nothing to do with 'patriotism' (unless you're venting some anti-American sentiment) - I don't even KNOW how you came up with that response. This is really about property ownership rights, the overall HP content about this website.

This forum is NOT just about HP48s. And the key to our discussion is that you don't tell someone what to do in his own house!! Comp.sys.hp48 is indeed a public Usenet forum. Were your comments/scorn to concern the c.s.hp48 Usenet forum they might be appropriate. THIS forum is a private one, run by Dave Hicks on his own website for communication with like-minded folks for whom he is nice enough to provide web services.

As such, posts about things that affect him and are of interest to the general HP calc (not just 48 folks) are appropriate. This HP Forum is about HP calc news, history, marketplace for used calcs, repairs, speculations, etc.

Personal websites are an extension of one's home in many ways. I think we - we US citizens at least - don't like to be told what's appropriate for our homes. I know I don't: if someone comes in my home and starts telling me what to do or rearranging things, my reaction can range from a swift kick in the a*s out the door to drawing a Colt .45 (depending on severity of offense of course). This includes the government.

If it's HP calc tech or business related it IS appropriate here- and I can think of nothing more relevant than Dave's nice photgraphic work being pirated off by EBay idiots without so much as an attribution - people are making money, a tad indirectly, off Dave's work. If these photos were news photos from a wire service or phototgraphy house that were plucked by a company to do advertising you can be SURE there would be legal entanglements and remuneration, as there rightly should be. Property is property.

This forum is about HP calcs in general - with some focus on older ones as well - rather than solely about the HP48. There seems to be some disconnect with (and only moderate overlap between) the HP48 community and the HP calc community in general. There's lots of 48 users out there that don't know what *REAL* RPN is or know about great calcs like the 41C and its predecessors. These are the folks that often hang out in comp.sys.hp48 - which is fine. Post a question about a 41C issue, an accuracy issue on an older calc, battery or hardware issues on a non-48 calc there and you'll end up with the Usenet equivalent of a blank stare.

[I think I speak for many here who just DON'T like the 48's complexity, etc and innappropriate substitution for a desktop computer. Which is why you see the clamor for a new 42S :)]

Bill Wiese San Jose, CA

>User48 wrote: >wanted to point that some threads in this >forum (and comp.sys.hp48) aren't interesting for >a larger audience... {snip}... don't think that >buying a piece of equipment is interesting for >the whole world and I think that reporting a >stolen picture has to be done in private (


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