HP Forum Archive 10

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HP12C for PocketPC Message #1 Posted by Chris Randle (UK) on 27 Jan 2003, 8:51 p.m. For those that might be interested, spotted this: http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?siteId=311&productId=28741 Looks good. Haven't tried it.

Re: HP12C for PocketPC Message #2 Posted by OJM on 28 Jan 2003, 8:01 a.m., in response to message #1 by Chris Randle (UK) Looks like they also have a 15C emulator as well... http://www.handango.com/PlatformProductDetail.jsp?siteId=311&productId=49174

Re: HP12C for PocketPC Message #3 Posted by Chris Randle (UK) on 28 Jan 2003, 2:15 p.m., in response to message #2 by OJM Ahh, that's better. The 15C is more my cup of tea. Imagine a $20 bundle with a 15C and 16C. Flip from one to the other with one click and the option of transferring the stack across as you go (with some sort of integer <-> real convention). I think I'd still keep Emu48 loaded. Is this just greed?!

A few comments about the 15C version Message #4 Posted by Chris Randle (UK) on 30 Jan 2003, 2:57 p.m., in response to message #2 by OJM I don't have a real 15C so I'm going by the manual and my experience of the 16C. My initial observations: Looks visually stunning. Display is little odd in that the digits don't fill the calc screen horizontally, there's some white space at the right-hand end. I'd have preferred a more faithful rendition of the LCD digits. Programming doesn't record key matrix co-ords, but alpha mnemonics rather like a 42S, e.g. 001: RCL 1 002: R-DOWN 003: COS The original 448 byte limit is removed. Don't know what its new limit is. There are extra annunciators. Not just f and g, but for all the keys that require a subsequent entry, e.g. RCL, GTO, SF, etc. A test loop LBL 1 1 + GTO 1 to compare its speed with my 16C appeared to lock up the PPC. In fact it's just hogging all the CPU time and responds very slowly to the R/S key - almost to the point of being unusable. When I did get the display back, it showed a speed in the loop 130 times faster than my 16C in floating point. I was initially surprised to do 1 [ENTER] 3 / 3 * and get 1.000000000 but that's what the 16C does too so I guess it's OK! Is there a numeric test I can do to see if it copies the 15C's maths exactly rather than some C data type distortion?

Re: A few comments about the 15C version Message #5 Posted by hugh on 30 Jan 2003, 7:07 p.m., in response to message #4 by Chris Randle (UK) 1 ENTER 3 / 3 * f PREFIX shows 9999999999 on a 15c but this is 1.000000000 when in FIX 9. i would be interested in the following calculations. tan(355/226) radians. the 15c gets -7,507,225.705 (the real answer is -7497258.185) also, try this. its bit more involved though... 1 ENTER 3 / then perform the sequence 4 * 1 - repeated 14 times. you will see the .333333's disapear one by one until you finally get, 0.310963712 on a 15c what i am doing here is bringing in errors by multiplying by two and the machine is decimal. if i multiply by 10 and subtract i get clean zeros. machines that are really binary will get clean zeros from my example, but garbage using 10. if you are actually using binary arithmetic internally, chances are you will get clean zeros.

Re: A few comments about the 15C version Message #6 Posted by Renato on 30 Jan 2003, 10:28 p.m., in response to message #5 by hugh Maybe someone could try the calculations described at: http://www.rskey.org/~mwsebastian/miscprj/forensics.htm This way you can verify if it is a emulation or a simulation.

"Forensics" test result Message #7 Posted by Chris Randle (UK) on 31 Jan 2003, 3:06 p.m., in response to message #6 by Renato The forensics test at the link is: arcsin(arccos(arctan(tan(cos(sin(9)))))) in degrees. The PPC program gives 9.000417403 the same as the real 15C which makes it even harder to explain the results of hugh's tan test.

Results of tests Message #8 Posted by Chris Randle (UK) on 31 Jan 2003, 2:56 p.m., in response to message #5 by hugh I'd forgotten about PREFIX. After 1[ENTER]3/3*[PREFIX] the 15C program shows nine 9's. tan(355/226) radians give -7,507,219.881 The repeated 4*1- after 1 3/ gives the same answer as a real 15C So the tan func is a bit different, other two seem faithful.

Re: Results of tests Message #9 Posted by hugh on 31 Jan 2003, 3:24 p.m., in response to message #8 by Chris Randle (UK) thanks chris. those results are interesting. i am thinking that perhaps they really do emulate, or at least use the exact same algorithms. it would be highly difficult to implement a rich set of functions and hit answers bang on - even the ones in slight error! that makes me think they've taken the logic straight from the 15c roms. incidentally, ive been playing with the palm 12c and it feels like that too. especially since the calculations are a bit slow for such a faster cpu. what is the speed like on the PPC. if native, it should be super fast. heres my theory of the day for the tan test: some 15c's are different! is this true? im suggesting there were rom revisions internally.

Oh no! Now my Jornada 565 won't sync! Message #10 Posted by Gene on 31 Jan 2003, 4:11 p.m., in response to message #9 by hugh Trying to load the 2 emulators made me try to synch info with my PC and the Jornada 565 I have. I had done this before, but between then and now, got a replacement Jornada 565 for a warranty problem. I had not tried synching with the replacement Jornada until today. WinXP at home and W2000 at work do not see the Jornada, using either Activesync 3.1 or 3.5 Naturally, this is 98 days past the arrival of the replacement unit, so if it's a true problem with the Jornada, I'm out of luck. Any activesync experts out there with some suggestions? I can copy files to the CF card and then insert it, but for reasons I have not understood, you (usually?) cannot install things into a PPC2002 device except through activesynch. Waaahh! Gene

Re: Oh no! Now my Jornada 565 won't sync! Message #11 Posted by Chris Randle (UK) on 31 Jan 2003, 4:41 p.m., in response to message #10 by Gene I'm not an expert, but ActiveSync can be a pain sometimes. You can install without ActiveSync if you copy any .cab file you might find (must be the ARM one if there's a choice) to the PPC and then tap it (on the PPC). There is an ActiveSync 3.6 on Microsoft's site, but I reckon your problem is more fundamental. If you want to take this off-list (chris@amlog.co.uk) I'll try to help you.

Looks good. Why won't 12c work w/Jornada? Message #12 Posted by Gene on 28 Jan 2003, 12:15 p.m., in response to message #1 by Chris Randle (UK) They list the Jornada 560 series as working with the 15c emulator, but not the 12c. Wonder what's up with that? I think these look very good, and the price is right! Gene

Re: All versions of 12C emulator Message #13 Posted by Gordon Dyer on 28 Jan 2003, 2:07 p.m., in response to message #12 by Gene Go to this page to see all versions for the PocketPC http://www.handango.com/PlatformTopSoftware.jsp?siteId=311&jid=88E667C62A7F6AA66639B549158B26X5&platformId=2&title=Lygea&authorId=97945

Actually, that doesn't work, but thanks Message #14 Posted by Gene on 28 Jan 2003, 3:00 p.m., in response to message #13 by Gordon Dyer The Jornada 565 has an ARM processor, but the only PDA PocketPCs listed on the ARM page are IPaQs. So, I still wonder if it will run on ARM processor PDAs other than the IPaQs? Gene

Re: Actually, that doesn't work, but thanks Message #15 Posted by Gordon Dyer on 29 Jan 2003, 12:20 p.m., in response to message #14 by Gene I just selected both lines of the URL from my reply above, copied and pasted it into Internet Explorer and it worked fine! Try it again....

I meant the listing didn't specify a Jornada 565 Message #16 Posted by Gene on 29 Jan 2003, 4:21 p.m., in response to message #15 by Gordon Dyer What I had meant was your longer URL didn't provide the answer to my question. :-) The version listed only displays the IPaq's on the ARM version. Not Jornada 560 series. That was my original question. Chris Randle says he has used it, but the Store's specifications must then be incomplete.

Re: Actually, that doesn't work, but thanks Message #17 Posted by Chris Randle (UK) on 29 Jan 2003, 3:59 p.m., in response to message #14 by Gene Just installed both trial versions (12C & 15C) on to the ARM processored Jornada 568. They both work a treat. I've only played with them for literally 2 minutes but visually they're beautiful. In the screen shots you can see a red ellipis button. This gives a stack display. On the 12C the Y, Z & T registers appear on the right-hand side of the simulated display in a very neat faint font. On the 15C the whole (PPC) display switches to show X, Y, Z & T along with the contents of the 21 registers RI, R0-9 and R.0-R.9. Roll on (R-> ??) the 16C version!

Re: Both work on Jornada 548 SH3 Message #18 Posted by Gordon Dyer on 29 Jan 2003, 9:14 p.m., in response to message #17 by Chris Randle (UK) I have trial versions of 12C and 15C on a Jornada 548 with SH3 processor. They are so good I might buy them!

Re: HP12C for PocketPC Message #19 Posted by hugh on 28 Jan 2003, 1:40 p.m., in response to message #1 by Chris Randle (UK) no palmOS version tho :-( does it work by rom emulation? are the roms freely available to be used commercially like this? the price is very reasonable.

Re: HP12C for PocketPC Message #20 Posted by HrastProgrammer on 29 Jan 2003, 7:30 a.m., in response to message #19 by hugh AFAIK, it is not ROM based because HP-11/12/15/16 ROM wasn't released by HP (sadly). So, it is more a simulator than emulator because real emulators usualy emulate CPU so they need ROM to execute.

HP12C for Palm Message #21 Posted by Bill Hemphill on 28 Jan 2003, 3:41 p.m., in response to message #1 by Chris Randle (UK) Just did a search on Palm Gear and came up with following: http://www.palmgear.com/software/showsoftware.cfm?sid=12708720030128123635&prodID=42854 I haven't tried it yet, but looks interesting for those of us with Palms.

Re: HP12C for Palm Message #22 Posted by Renato on 29 Jan 2003, 6:33 a.m., in response to message #21 by Bill Hemphill I´ve been using it for some time. It is very good. The trial period is only 30 days.

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