HP Forum Archive 09

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More shady e-bay behavior Message #1 Posted by Dave Mabry on 9 Jan 2003, 7:31 a.m. I'm just posting this for some opinions from the group here. This has me a bit peeved, but I'm not sure I'm justified. There was a HP-10C on E-bay a few weeks ago that I was interested in (as were many others, no doubt) and I had intended to watch the auction and bid if it didn't get too high. Here is original auction. As you can see, the seller ended the auction early stating that there was an error in the listing. When I saw this I sent him an e-mail asking if he would tell me what the error was and if he was going to list it again. No reply. Then I see one of the big HP calculator sellers list a suspiciously similar looking calculator. New listing of same calculator by different seller. If you look very closely at the photos of the back of this calculator in both auctions you can see a small scratch at the bottom center that looks to be identical. Couple that with the fact that the serial number had been obliterated in the same way on both and I think you will agree this is the same calculator. Now, in my opinion, there was no error in the original listing. And the seller negotiated an "outside of ebay" sale to this guy who just buys and sells. This buyer's bid in the original auction was listed as $199 and he "sold it now" for $325. I don't know why, but something about this bothers me. It probably isn't anything that e-bay would do anything about, especially since the guy who bought and resold the calculator has a perfect feedback and is one of their larger users. I think he frequents this forum as well. Maybe he has some comments on this. What do you think?

Re: More shady e-bay behavior Message #2 Posted by Rick on 9 Jan 2003, 10:55 a.m., in response to message #1 by Dave Mabry Dave, Good observation. It will be interesting to see the response from Mike. Also, are you aware of the connection between tomd and cjd55? A lot of shady things going on over on eBay.

One and the same, I suspect Message #3 Posted by Mike on 9 Jan 2003, 11:15 a.m., in response to message #2 by Rick I probably shouldn't respond but since I post regularly and because I believe that full disclosure is the key to a good reputation, I replied to the above, about my transaction (see other thread). I suspect tomd and cjd55 are one and the same business. They are likely legit, different, accounts. I have seen nothing wrong in their bidding to suggest that the use of "shady" is appropriate here. I, too, have been blocked by cjd55 for no apparent reason other than the emails I get from "tomd" as a reason. I think we need to be careful with using words like "shady" or "illegal" until we know the facts.

Re: One and the same, I suspect Message #4 Posted by Rick on 9 Jan 2003, 11:24 a.m., in response to message #3 by Mike I agree - shady should not be used. Perhaps we should say the situations are interesting to look at. Do you have examples of the "nastygrams" mentioned earlier? I wouldn't mind seeing them.

Re: More shady e-bay behavior Message #5 Posted by Ron Ross on 9 Jan 2003, 11:28 a.m., in response to message #2 by Rick I have dealt with Tom D and he has ALWAYS been a fair and honest guy. I suspect he may have had to resort to another ebay name to help avoid the competetion of bids. I guess (I have never) a name can be tracked and competetive bidding can then be a continual problem. ie. I know that Tom D has the same habit, same tastes, and searches certain models I might overlook. Also, if you visit long enough, you also KNOW their common stopping point. This allows you to do two things. One, just plain outbid them (ie an Hp 15c- listed as an HP-15d and Tom finds by thorough search or accident). Or, second, JUST RUN THE BID UP!!! Because I THINK TOMD IS A JERK!!!(I am being sarcastic, to any who may mistake my statement) Both are good reasons for TomD to have another name as he has become so famous. That is my take on why TomD may have a second name. I cannot say he has or that cjd55 is his or not.

Nothing "shady" at all Message #6 Posted by Mike on 9 Jan 2003, 11:02 a.m., in response to message #1 by Dave Mabry There was nothing shady about this at all. Certainly, not on my part. Why are you accusing me of something "shady?" If you recall, I was the high bidder at the time. I don't recall the price but it was a little under $200. The seller contacted me and asked if I wanted it at that price, since he was satisfied with the current bid. I guess he was in a hurry to get payment. It was just prior to Christmas you know. There is absolutely nothing wrong with ending an auction early. I have the emails, from eBay stating that "if you are satisfied with a bid, you can end an auction early." If if you want to see them. Anyway, I said "sure." Wouldn't you? Then I paid him and he sent me the calculator the same day. He just ended it incorrectly, by accident I presume. I didn't even check until you posted this. It never was part of the deal that the auction be zeroed out. His emails clearly said "end it early." It should have just been ended. Mistakes happen. If you have ever tried to end an auction early you will know what I mean about mistakes happening. The page where you end it has an item number field. When he next page comes up, if there are no bids, there is a button that says, "end your listing." That button looks like the one to press, just to end the auction. But if there are bids, you see the same "End the listing" button. But if you scroll down a bit further, there is another button that says "sell the item." That button is easy to overlook. I did this a few times myself when I first started selling. It took me a while to figure out what was going on. If you click the "End the listing" ebays software will cancell all bids. If yuu click the "sell the item" it will just end the auction. But, to accuse me of something shady is ridiculous, don't you think? I had no control of ending the auction. I did not end it. I was high bidder and accepted the sellers offer to end it early. I did nothing wrong, in this transaction. If there was anything done wrong, it was that the seller ended the listing incorrectly. Why are you accusing ME? I paid almost $200 + $5 shipping. Added a brand new, never used, still in shrink $50 manual and a new $15 case. Everything was disclosed properly. I would have kept the calculator, except that it had the missing serial number, that was not disclosed. Ticked me off when I saw that. What the hell is shady about this?

Re: Nothing "shady" at all Message #7 Posted by Dave Mabry on 9 Jan 2003, 8:09 p.m., in response to message #6 by Mike After reading my post I can see why you take offense to it, Mike. Believe it or not, I didn't think that your behavior was anything other than profiteering. And there is nothing wrong with that. So, please accept my appology for inferring that YOU were the shady one. That was not my intention. The real behavior I was referring to was the seller you bought from. While you are correct that e-bay rules allow the seller to end an auction early, what he did was clearly against the rules. He ended the auction early and "negotiated and offsite sale". That is specifically prohibited. You asked me if I wouldn't do the same as you, had he offered it to me. Probably I would have. But I doubt that I would have bought it and resold it for a quick profit. So, it is not fair of you to compare your motives to mine. Had I wanted to sell it because of the missing serial number my BIN price would have been what I paid for it. I noticed the obliterated serial number in the original auction and sent him an e-mail asking about it. As in my other e-mail, no reply. I have ended an e-bay auction early, for a different reason, and as I recall I had to cancel each bid separately. This was some time ago, so it may be different now, but I wasn't confused by the rules or procedures. I doubt that the seller was intending anything by his actions other than avoiding e-bays fees. But, again, that is just my opinion. To repeat, I am sorry to have inferred the shady behavior was on your part. That was not my intention. It was the seller's behavior that was shady.

Re: More shady e-bay behavior Message #8 Posted by Bill Wiese on 9 Jan 2003, 1:49 p.m., in response to message #1 by Dave Mabry I have dealt with Tom Drewski, chatted with him several times about calc issues, etc. and found him to be a nice, informed guy. He likes calculators. It IS a free market after all: if the seller decides to end the auction early and use his HP15C to prop up the low corner of his sofa, so be it. One other comment (and this is NOT to reflect on the particular auctions under discussion): when an EBay auction ends early - other than thru the sanctioned "Buy It Now" expedient - the transaction is no longer protected by EBay rules and whatever protection EBay offers to buyers & sellers. It is essentially a private transaction, where the EBay listing was used to advertise it! (I suspect EBay may crack down on these if frequent enough). Just read of a story recently in SJ Mercury News about a kid who buys/sells Apple Mac stuff on EBay. Purchaser offered an amount above current auction price (and reserve, etc) and to express a bank check if kid would kill auction early. Kid did that, and got a bogus bank check, not detected til it failed to clear. (Happy ending: kid enlisted a bunch of Mac friends around the country, did some sleuthing, and they caught the guy in IL - he was a serial EBay fraudster.) Bill Wiese San Jose, CA

Re: More shady e-bay behavior Message #9 Posted by Frank on 10 Jan 2003, 7:34 a.m., in response to message #8 by Bill Wiese I would agree with the commonts praising Tom D., I have always found him very trustworthy and if anything, overwilling to help other collectors at his expense. He is not about profiteering, just collecting as a hobby and an interest. Anything he might happen to make on something which I think is rare, he either later gives away or puts right back in the collection. He is not known to sell alot on ebay, btw. Regards!

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