The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 09

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Copies of Hp manuals on eBay
Message #1 Posted by Randy Sloyer(US) on 28 Sept 2002, 7:48 a.m.

I stumbled across some HP41 manuals being sold on eBay. The only thing is, these are photocopies and the seller is very open about it.

Did Hp relinquish any copyrights on the older calculators? If so, is this posted anywhere on the web?

Or have these possible copyright violations just escaped the eBay Intellectual Property check?

http://cgi.aol.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=909610756

      
The last time I checked (a few months ago)
Message #2 Posted by Dave Hicks on 28 Sept 2002, 11:46 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Randy Sloyer(US)

The people I talked to at HP considered all of their copyrights to be active and enforceable. However, due to the Compaq merger and rumors about some possible new calculator organization, there seems to be confusion as to whose job it is to be handling these sorts of things. They recommended that I stay far away from them (don't even link to them) and check back "later". My policy with respect to the HP forum is to honor that request as long as they give me specific sites or products that should be avoided.

As for ebay, there is no IP check done at ebay. They don't look at auctions in advance. If an IP owner notices and complains, then they'll terminate the auction. Again, it's possible that no one at HP currently knows that its his job to be trolling ebay for possible calculator infringements.

            
Re: The last time I checked (a few months ago)
Message #3 Posted by Andreas Stockburger (EU) on 28 Sept 2002, 4:09 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Dave Hicks

Hi Dave,

what should I do if I want to buy such a manual today? Is it possible to buy it from HP ? If not, whats the problem with this copied manuals ? In my opinion there is no loss of money for hp...

Any comments ?

Andreas Stockburger

                  
Re: The last time I checked (a few months ago)
Message #4 Posted by Dave Hicks on 28 Sept 2002, 4:46 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Andreas Stockburger (EU)

You may not see a problem but since you're not the copyright holder, it's not your call. It's up to the copyright holder to determine how or even if an item is available. If you want to write the world's greatest novel and then lock it in your desk drawer, you're entitled.

Likewise when people use my pictures without indication on ebay, it annoys people here so I ask ebay to terminate the auction and they do. They never ask if the auction is costing me any money.

                        
Problem with Ebay is...
Message #5 Posted by Gene on 28 Sept 2002, 4:57 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Dave Hicks

I saw someone selling a photocopied service manual for the TI-59. Tried to email ebay. I dont' think they care. Nothing was ever done to that auction. It ended quite peacefully with a high bidder. I had emailed when the auction had 6+ days to go.

I think they don't have enough people to really go after stuff like this. Feel free to email them and try for yourself, but ...

Gene

                              
Re: Problem with Ebay is...
Message #6 Posted by Emmanuel on 28 Sept 2002, 5:03 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Gene

This copy seems to be made by someone working for TI and sells by name each CDR.

                              
Ebay will remove items
Message #7 Posted by Dave Hicks on 28 Sept 2002, 5:11 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Gene

When they are reported by the copyright holder. The first time, the copyright holder has to send a signed sworn statement. After that, emails are accepted. I have never had ebay refuse to remove an auction using one of my pictures.

From what I've heard, when they are reported by a third party it seems that sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. I've never tried to do a third party report myself.

                  
Re: The last time I checked (a few months ago)
Message #8 Posted by Emmanuel on 28 Sept 2002, 5:00 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Andreas Stockburger (EU)

I'm not a jurist but I think that first you have to ask HP permission to make a copy for your own use, or mention the author when you're using his pictures or parts of his book for instance. It's a question of common sense and courtesy.

                        
Re: The last time I checked (a few months ago)
Message #9 Posted by db(martinez,california) on 28 Sept 2002, 8:15 p.m.,
in response to message #8 by Emmanuel

did anyone click on the ebay auction and then the "space shuttle" link? i've seen two other posting/articles on the subject and this is the most complete.

about the product - forgetting that the museum cd set is a much better bargin, it can be said that he is providing a service. a lot of manuals have been lost and many blanknuts were sold without manuals. i know that he is breaking copyright law but with how little hp has done for me lately they wouldn't want me on that jury.


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