The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 08

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AD over posting
Message #1 Posted by Unknown on 31 May 2002, 5:29 p.m.

"Ad section text quote"

HP Classified Ads

Please do not post ads for the same items or services more frequently than once per week. Inappropriate or frequently reposted ads may be deleted at any time with or without notification.

"End Ad section text quote"

Posted by doug on 29 May 2002, 12:03 a.m.

ALL ARE BRAND NEW CALCULATORS

HP11C/Case - Original retail package - Sealed - Shrink-Wrapped - New in the Box

HP12C/Case - Original retail package - Sealed plastic Blister Pac with Manual & 1 Lithium Cell

HP16C/Case - No Box - No Handbook

etc.

posted by doug on 31 May 2002, 2:57 p.m.

BRAND NEW CALCULATORS

HP11C/Case - Original retail package - Sealed - Shrink-Wrapped - New in the Box

HP12C/Case - Original retail package - Sealed plastic Blister Pac with Manual & 1 Lithium Cell

HP16C/Case - No Box - No Handbook

etc.

EOL

      
Re: AD over posting
Message #2 Posted by doug on 31 May 2002, 7:46 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Unknown

This is the forum not the classified section, and what you posted here does not belong here. This is a FORUM for resolution, not for personal slights, or threats of action against someone.

Next the sections of the ad you posted and the changes were necessary for other people. A person contacted me and didn't notice that below it was "Used Calculators" and thought all were new. That change was made to accommodate them and others like them. But since you chose the dates you did, why didn't you also notice the other changes such as the HP11C, and HP71 products added. Corrections were made to the HP11C addendum when I realized it didn't belong with the items it was listed with. The wording on a couple of other lines were simply invalid. Want me to continue this list? Want me to get your permission first?

I don't like reposting the ad at all. But when calculators or accessories have sold, or new calculators or accessories have been purchased or traded for, the ad needs to be changed. I don't set the frequency of the change, people that buy from me, or sell to me, or trade with me do.

Other people have ran one single ad with the exact same ad information and have only changed the time of the posting and I never seen anyone complain about it. I have certainly never seen a posting like this on the FORUM before.

I use to run multiple ad's but it is to much of a hassle to keep up with. I don't repost to keep my ad at the top, but only to add or remove items as necessary. People don't like to contact a person to buy something and then be told it is already sold.

If you wish to address me personally then select my id and send me an email personally with your email id. Don't ever post an item in the Forum to me with "UNKNOWN" again. Got something to say, then say it to me not to the people on this FORUM.

            
This discussion is appropriate here
Message #3 Posted by Dave Hicks on 31 May 2002, 9:16 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by doug

The classifieds section is not suited to discussions since there is no reply button.

"Other people have ran one single ad with the exact same ad information and have only changed the time of the posting and I never seen anyone complain about it. I have certainly never seen a posting like this on the FORUM before. "

Doug, people have complained about your repostings before. In fact, you've complained to me about people complaining about your posts so I don't see how you can claim that this is unique.

I'm aware of three other people who have annoyed visitors by frequent posting. The most recent was the PANAME module poster that was referenced in the recent cross-posting thread. Those posters toned it down after they realized they were bugging people. I requested the same courtesy from you some time ago.

                  
Re: This discussion is appropriate here
Message #4 Posted by Spice_Man on 31 May 2002, 10:23 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Dave Hicks

Thank you. I also felt Doug's frequent, virtually identical posts were getting quite annoying, and was doing no one but himself service.

                        
Re: This discussion is appropriate here
Message #5 Posted by doug on 1 June 2002, 8:14 p.m.,
in response to message #4 by Spice_Man

"Thank you. I also felt Doug's frequent, virtually identical posts were getting quite annoying, and was doing no one but himself service."

You say this was doing no one a service but me. What do you think a classifed ad is for. Charity?

But just in case you can't seem to reach far enough to understand this. Where did I buy these items from in the first place? Did someone else possibly make money from me when I bought from them? You bet your butt they did. If I don't sell them then I don't buy anymore. What does that tell you? Who really does benefit when a sale is made?

How do you read the newspaper classified ads when they are almost the same all the time, until something sells?

How can a little line on a classified sales ad bother you so much? I really don't understand this.

If a simple classified ad bothers you that much then you need to find out why. My ad isn't your real problem.

                  
Thanks
Message #6 Posted by Jim L on 31 May 2002, 11:59 p.m.,
in response to message #3 by Dave Hicks

It was getting a monotonous to see the same ads over and over.

                  
Re: This discussion is appropriate here
Message #7 Posted by doug on 1 June 2002, 12:14 a.m.,
in response to message #3 by Dave Hicks

You did contact me in the past about posting the ads. You said you had received complaints that I was posting to keep my ad at the top of the list. That simply wasn't true, and is childish for adults to think such a thing, and worse for them to even say it. The only thing that can top that is for someone to hide behind an id like "UNKNOWN" to try to provoke a person, no matter who it is. They posted and threatened to delete my ads. I have no time for such people. They posted large sections. Not the one statement they were trying to bring to site. What happened in this instance was a person thought the statement meant all calculators in the list were new, not just up to the point where it stated "USED CALCULATORS". I found some people just don't catch such things and others have a hard time with English and I try to re-write so it isn't confusing to them.

As a matter of fact it really doesn't make any difference where it is posted because most people use a find command to get a hit on the subject field for what they are searching for. I know that because I have been in DP since 1976. Many times items appear in a combined ad like this to be the same, because some people gloss over them. But the items change as well. Sometimes you might see an Hp-11c or Hp-15c or even Hp-16c for example and think it is the same unit or the same unit being reposted after being pulled a while, and it isn't.

At that time you contacted me in the past I asked you if two things are possible.

1. Could you make a change to the software so that an ad could be updated in place. In other words without having to delete the complete ad and going through the hassle of deleting the lines in the ad or placing new lines and then copying everything back over.

2. I asked you at that time to post specific rules and I would be glad to follow them.

But when I post an ad and nothing sales in a week or more it hasn't been changed. If something sales I repost the ad without the item. If I make an acquisition I post the new item(s). If you have a problem with this then you want a selective person classified ad, not a true classified section. What that means is you want to pick and choose who use this website, and not run a true classified ad, or forum. Forums are not for personal attacks by anyone on anyone, or for a website owner or anyone else to use it to badger or pound on people, or to build a personal case against a person you just want to push around or off of a website. I told you before if you don't want me on your website just say it. But I did request that you give me a stated reason.

You carefully stated that people complained to me and you. No, one person complained to me. I'm still not positive they know how to read or comprehend what they read for sure. When you posted your response today, you left out the two main items I asked as a resolution above. You always try to paint a negative picture in your wording when you don't like someone. That is not only evident, but proven, to me if no one else. You and some of the other people have already responded to what I wrote and you couldn't have read it, and responded as you have, if this wasn't true. It just couldn't be possible.

So, if what you have caused me to believe isn't true, then explain why you would make such a big deal out of nothing. A reposted classified ad, that has been changed. What rules? Am I the only person that has to wait to re-post? You put changes should be held to once a week at the top of your classified ad. I had 3 items sell in about a days time. Within a day or so latter I traded one of the new calculators for a used older calculator and one had to be removed and the other added. What should I have done? Wait another week? So people could contact that are looking for the unit I no longer have, and not contact and get the unit I do have to sell?

                        
Re: This discussion is appropriate here
Message #8 Posted by Dave Hicks on 1 June 2002, 1:55 a.m.,
in response to message #7 by doug

"At that time you contacted me in the past I asked you if two things are possible."

I received your nine responses and for the most part didn't read them to completion. Thank you for being more civil this time. Last time when you asked "Do you really know how many jerks visit this website?" I responded that you were welcome to stop using it if you wished. If the jerks are still annoying you, the offer is still open. I have no control over them, can't identify them, and may even be one of them for all I know.

If you wish to stay, that's great, but please remember that this is a free service. It may not meet your idea of perfection. It doesn't even meet mine! I often extend the site and add features when asked nicely. I generally don't respond as well to insults and demands. Nevertheless...

"You put changes should be held to once a week at the top of your classified ad."

Thank you for noticing. You demanded that rules to be spelled out and enforced. You got it.

                              
Re: This discussion is appropriate here
Message #9 Posted by doug on 1 June 2002, 3:27 a.m.,
in response to message #8 by Dave Hicks

You received ever how many responses after I received ever how many false accusations.

The main thing you did the last time was the fact that you didn't verify what the person complained about before you sent me emails and flat out accused me of doing what they had accused me of. You said I was posting an ad to just keep it on top. I wasn't. You followed that email by more than one and did the same thing before you looked at what I actually wrote. For a person to make such an accusation is ridiculous. What would I or anyone have to gain by such a childish action? Nothing. Who would think such a thing? A childish minded person. You did that more than once, before you even looked at what I said. You did have me angry by then, and it was uncalled for, and I responded accordingly, whether you consider it right or wrong. What you don't understand is I don't even think like most people do. I never have even when I was a child. I don't spiteful things, because they are a waste of time and energy.

You obviously don't know how many jerks do get on this website and work together to tear down a person that does sale. Most of the people that make inquiries are civil, but many don't respect the postings. You can put an FSBO ad on this website and people will send emails asking you to quote a sales price. Why?

Some people have made offers in the past and I accepted. They asked for a shipping quote and give me their address, and I would look it up and let them know. They have said it is fine and would send payment. I have waited a week or more sometimes and sent an email to find out if they had sent the payment yet. They would then ask if I take paypal. When I said yes then they said they would just send payment that way. I waited 3 days and sent them an email again. Then they said they bought a "" calculator somewhere else, and was no longer interested. I think once a person has extended an offer and it has been accepted, and all the other information is exchanged and provided as well as the item is packaged and ready to go, and then a person do something like that, well, I think JERK is appropriate, among other things, how about you?

Many people had bought from me the last time I told you some were jerks on this website. I wasn't as new as you may have thought I was at this. That was just one example of those types of people, not the average buyer or shopper.

I appreciate it when a person buys from me. I don't get angry or even care if they don't. I know not everyone is going to buy what you sale. Some want these items at 1980 prices. If someone would sell me batch of brand new HP16C's for $100 each, I would be glad to sell them for $200, or maybe even $150. But in reality land that doesn't exist anymore. Sometimes many people come back to me and buy something latter because I don't get emotional or angry when they don't. I just try to keep the information as accurate as I can. I don't need childish testing by people, I am just selling objects, not my love. Though some of them are hard to let go of at times.

If you prefer people or only collectors that post an ad for only one or two items at a time then that is fine. I think you don't understand that 99% of my sales are to users. They are the kind that buy these units and put them to work earning a living. Most are buying units for one of these reasons.

1. Security Blanky - They are going up in price and they want a backup while they can afford it. 2. Theft - One of the major reasons. Their unit was stolen. Many times where they work and they feel violated much worse than many other people. Most can't stand the idea of putting $200 to $300 into a calculator than is so likely to be stolen. It just takes the heart out of them. 3. Loss of a buddy - Their unit is now only doing calculations in the calculator hereafter. Because their unit doesn't respond on this earth anymore. 4. KIA - They were killed in action - People have contacted and bought from me that have dropped them into sewers, water, mud, and even in front of a moving bulldozer. Needless to say they were put to work immediately upon purchase and not sent to any calculator survival training, and they couldn't swim, jump or run, so they didn't have a chance. .

I have to be able to update the ads to accommodate peoples needs. So I will look for another website to sell on. But I will tell you that for every person that bought from me, made it possible for me to buy from some of you. And some of you made a lot of money off of me, to turn such cold shoulders to me now. That I won't forget.

                                    
Re: This discussion is appropriate here
Message #10 Posted by Dave Hicks on 1 June 2002, 3:58 a.m.,
in response to message #9 by doug

The main thing you did the last time was the fact that you didn't verify what the person complained about before you sent me emails and flat out accused me of doing what they had accused me of.

As I said back then "I've looked through the logs and the ads from 11, 9th, 6th, 4th etc. do look nearly identical. I don't see the difference between some days but on others I do see a few dollar price change" and you responded with "you fall just short of calling me a liar"

Well I'd say it was FAR short of calling you a liar. I was saying that I could understand why they thought you had reposted the same ad, because I couldn't tell them apart either. Perhaps you were in error. Perhaps there was something I also missed. In either event, I thought the complaint was understandable.

Sheesh, all this that started with "Could you please reduce the frequency of reposting the same ad?"

                                          
Re: This discussion is appropriate here
Message #11 Posted by doug on 1 June 2002, 4:38 a.m.,
in response to message #10 by Dave Hicks

That is the whole point. I didn't post the same ad. I wouldn't.

If it means so much to you to know. Do you have a utility program that will allow you to compare the two files and find the differences? If so run it.

Yep, there may only be price changes. That is one of the most common changes to any classified ad.

There very well could be changes made back then, where I found words that were wrong in usage, or the spelling was incorrect. And silly me, I would correct it. If someone wants to gripe about that they need to find something to do with their time. And I will admit I did do that quiet often at that time. I have gotten to the point to where I do a spell checker an the entry before I post it most of the time now.

I will agree that the same exact ad posted all the time at the top of the list would be annoying. But if a new item is added, and it is exactly what you are looking for, then it isn't annoying to that person. You have people that are lazy at everything. They just don't want to read and see what is different. They want to tell you how to place your ads for them. Well if they want to do the work that is fine with me. But I don't like people telling me what to do with my property. It is that simple.

Try and understand this. My ads appeared they were changing much more often then and recently because I did combined ads. That will happen. If you read my other postings, you will see I tried it all. Grouped ads by series of calculators, or accessories will cause about a daily change, if items sell. But instead of many ads being changed there is only one ad. The frequency of actual changes has been greatly reduced. And another reason, I removed the prices. This is just more noticeable on a single big ad. Re-posting of an ad that has only one or two items every couple of days isn't good. But don't you think combined ads with up to 10 or 20 or more items should be allowed to be re-posted when items sell or new items are purchased to sell?

An update in place would be much better, easier, less time consuming, less work, and it would only be at the top of the list once when it is originally posted, or when it is about to roll off and gets re-posted. An automatic warning sent before your ad rolls off the website with a 3 day lock which allows you to just push a button and re-list would be great also. This combination would be the ultimate.

                                                
Re: This discussion is appropriate here
Message #12 Posted by Unknown on 1 June 2002, 7:37 a.m.,
in response to message #11 by doug

<Do you have a utility program that will allow you to compare the two files and find the differences?>

Yes, It is called "diff".

$ man diff

<If so run it.>

I did.

EOL

                                                
Re: This discussion is appropriate here
Message #13 Posted by Dave Hicks on 1 June 2002, 10:31 a.m.,
in response to message #11 by doug

"That is the whole point. I didn't post the same ad. I wouldn't.

If it means so much to you to know. Do you have a utility program that will allow you to compare the two files and find the differences? If so run it."

I did.

                                                      
Re: This discussion is appropriate here
Message #14 Posted by doug on 1 June 2002, 6:03 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by Dave Hicks

What is the point of this? This issue was covered quiet thoroughly, and the whole original posting against my ad was proven invalid. I have received emails from people that like myself have figured out for themselves who the "UNKNOWN" is.

This is the last time I will address this issue with you or anyone, unless you can prove to me I broke the rule you have concerning this issue in the classified section of the website, and only after you have read this posting in its entirety. If you say anywhere in a response to this posting that you didn't read it in it's entirety for any reason, I will consider this issue dropped, and I will not respond again. You better understand how serious I am about this now.

"Do you have a utility program that will allow you to compare the two files and find the differences?"

No you didn't. If you did run the utility on the file and find only this one instance then your file system or program is hosed.

The keyword here is "differences" Did you compare the file over the time of it's existence or even over a 24 hour period before or after this one instance, and find all differences or do you just want to Harp on one change that you program did find? And this was a valid change to the ad even if there was no other.

"Please do not post ads for the same items or services more frequently than once per week. "

Once again I didn't break this rule. I combined many items into one ad. I don't repost one ad with one or maybe two items over and over. You are totally out of line with your own rules.

If an ad is ran on a classified section and one item is added or deleted to that ad and then it is re-posted, it is obviously not the same ad, and it didn't break your written rule. It is not by law the same ad not matter how similar it appears. If a person has found misspelled or improper word usage which changes the original intent of the ad, or the there are changes made for the clarification as to the understanding of an ad, then it is proper for it to be corrected as soon as found and the reposted.

A proper explanation was given on the one change you continue to HARP on. The first time you posted was to try to shame me, and turn your crew into discrediting me as a person or as a re-seller. I took the time to respond to you properly even though the manner of attack didn't warrant it.

The emails you addressed that we exchanged were not submitted as a part of this FORUM and you had no right to bring them up here. If you want to email me about them then do so and I will listen. But don't ever try this type of technique to bring private emails into a public FORUM again. That is totally unacceptable. Had you researched what the person claimed I did in the first place, I would have never received the emails from you or you from me in the second place.

The first time a person brings an issue or claim against a person on a FORUM and it is properly responded to and proven to be invalid should end it. Any subsequent attempt at the same thing is nothing short of harassment, which is illegal. You should have researched and proved it to be true before attempting to post such an accusation.

So address the exact issue I defined as having proved this isn't a repost of the same ad, or simply leave it alone.

Don't try to pull one quote at a time and try to harass me with non-sense opinions. I don't care. I don't and won't make time for it again.

I stand ready for you to address the exact issue if you wish and I will respond in kind, but only to proof that my ad was a repost of the same ad. Otherwise I consider this the completion to this issue.

                                                            
Doug: This isn't YOUR WEB PAGE
Message #15 Posted by Ron Ross on 1 June 2002, 10:03 p.m.,
in response to message #14 by doug

Doug,

While you may feel you have been attacked unfairly, your responses have been immature and extremely counter-productive. I have felt that you have provided a product to the communtiy, a reliable source of hard to find Hp calculators, should someone have an immediate need and want to bypass ebay.

However, your name calling and reaction to others, reguarding how you handle critism from the host of this site, simply means that you should either try to reconsider your position, or advertise elsewhere. You could create your own web page perhaps. Dave did not charge you a posting fee, or did he? I don't think so. And how do you repay his genorousity? By name calling and resorting to immature behavior.

Your responses have only mired you and your reputation. The crowd you are arguing with has no business or revenue loss to associate with their comments, or any real repercusions. You do.

                                                                  
AND IT ISN"T YOURS EITHER
Message #16 Posted by doug on 1 June 2002, 10:30 p.m.,
in response to message #15 by Ron Ross

First, and foremost, I invite you to show me where I did any name calling, on this FORUM.

Second, I personally can't stand internet slang lingo name calling. I despise it. I was called a "flame". That to an adult is an insult. People that believe in that lingo are childish. I believe it is nothing short of defamation character to even attempt to call anyone such a name. And it is CHILDISH!

Third, Provoke a person and they will respond.

Fourth, Falsely accuse and they will fight back.

Your large lettering of this is not my website was uncalled for. I didn't say it was. I did nothing to anyone but run a classified ad. Why should I accept criticism of any kind on a public forum about a classified ad? Want to show me anything that warrants this type of treatment of anyone on a public FORUM? You should have read all of my post's before you commented.

You are just like another person on this website. You don't even know what this is really about. It isn't over the one little ad reposting, that is just an excuse. You do not know what actually transpired. Mister you are way out of line, but I know you don't even realize it.

                                                                        
Counterproductive Messages
Message #17 Posted by Wayne Brown on 2 June 2002, 10:43 a.m.,
in response to message #16 by doug

Doug, I really think you're shooting yourself in the foot here. How many times you post an ad doesn't make any difference to me whatsoever. It does seem to me that the intent behind Dave's rule about re-posting ads would be to prevent any individual ITEM from being re-listed more than once per week, either individually or as part of a multi-item ad. So if a single item was listed in two ads in the same week, even if the ads were worded completely differently, I think that would be a violation of the rule. That appears to me to be the obvious interpretation of the rule's intent. (Dave is welcome to correct me if I'm wrong). However, as I said, it doesn't bother me, personally, how often your ads are posted.

What does bother me is the tone of most of your messages in this thread. I don't remember if I've ever bought anything from you before, but I do recall you as a helpful person who has posted a lot of useful information here. But the extremely belligerant messages you've been posting the last few days (especially those addressed to Dave) would make me very hesitant to do any sort of business with you. A seller is only as good as his reputation, and I think you're doing serious damage to your own. Before you ask: Yes, I've read every message in this thread so far, and based on that, I see no reason for you to behave so rudely to Dave. We are all guests in his forum, and the inpression you're giving is of someone who goes to a party and begins abusing the host verbally in front of the other guests. You'll probably say that I don't know the whole story because I haven't seen the private emails. You're right, I don't know the whole story. But that's the point. I, and most of the others here, know only what we see in this public thread. Based on your messages -- not other people's messages or accusations anyone has made against you, but only on your responses, on YOUR OWN WORDS -- I simply wouldn't be comfortable doing business with you.

Again, this isn't a judgment of whether you're in the right or in the wrong, simply a statement that your behavior, regardless of the reason for it, is presenting you in a very bad light. If there are others who feel the way I do (and I suspect there are), then you have lost (or are losing) potential customers over an argument whereby you stand to gain NOTHING even if you "win" your fight. My advice is to take it back to private email or (better yet) drop it altogether as you're only hurting yourself.

                                                                              
Re: Counterproductive Messages
Message #18 Posted by doug on 2 June 2002, 12:08 p.m.,
in response to message #17 by Wayne Brown

The only way I can respond is this. You really don't know what is behind this. You haven't paid attention to when some of these people do this type of treatment to other people before. It is WRONG. I don't care who it is.

You wrote a considerable amount in the beginning of what the rule meant. The original contact to me was "I was reposting my ads to keep them on top of the Classified Sections list". Which was ridiculous.

You said yourself you don't care. Who could honestly look a a classified list, and see a line and just not ignore it if it is something you aren't interested in?

"A seller is only as good as his reputation, and I think you're doing serious damage to your own."

A seller's reputation is and should be based on his honesty with people he does business. I don't appreciate you trying to infer that my reputation as a seller has anything to do with people's opinions about a placed ad.

This is the final posting about this. You really didn't read the postings with understanding.

You really don't know what this is about, and I know you don't. But, I will not discuss it furthur at this time.

I did not abuse anyone. I did not provoke any of this.

"You'll probably say that I don't know the whole story because I haven't seen the private emails. You're right, I don't know the whole story. But that's the point. I, and most of the others here, know only what we see in this public thread."

Did you read enough to see where he said he didn't read all of my emails? He didn't. He should have responded to me with emails instead of doing what he did. What do you think a big part of this problem really is?

If anyone contacted you and started telling you that you had done something you hadn't, then you would be agravated. If they did it more than once and continued to try to prove themselves right no matter what you would get angry. If they call you certain names, you would be ANGRY! Understand now?

I don't really care about this at all. I am a mature enough and old enough man to know how stupid and childish the attempts were and are.That will never change.

You made an awful lot of statements as to what I have done and what I am based on a few tiny FORUM responses. I don't know how you or anyone else can get such detailed information about what a person is, by such few words.

YOU CAN"T. No one is that smart. You nor anyone else has a right to state what I am or anyone else is on a public FORUM. But can provoke certain responses, to try to anger a person into writing something that some of you will walk away from. But in the end, the techniques don't change the facts or the truth.

                                                                                    
Re: Counterproductive Messages
Message #19 Posted by Wayne Brown on 2 June 2002, 10:06 p.m.,
in response to message #18 by doug

"A seller's reputation is and should be based on his honesty with people he does business. I don't appreciate you trying to infer that my reputation as a seller has anything to do with people's opinions about a placed ad."

*Sigh*. You've completely missed the point of what I was saying. Your reputation as a seller consists of WHAT PEOPLE THINK ABOUT YOU. No matter how honest you are, if you are perceived as an unpleasant person, some people will choose not to do business with you. I'm one of those people; no doubt there are others. If you think our numbers are small enough that you don't need to worry about losing our business, fine. That's your decision. But if you think that your honesty is the only factor people consider in dealing with you, then you have a few things to learn about human nature. I know of people changing the brands of products they use, just because they didn't like the politics and/or lifestyle of actors who were hired to promote those products in television commercials! And I myself have never purchased any "Ben and Jerry's Ice Cream" because I dislike the politics of the men who founded the company. That's why most smart business owners never make public statements on controversial topics.

"This is the final posting about this. You really didn't read the postings with understanding."

"You really don't know what this is about, and I know you don't. But, I will not discuss it furthur at this time."

"I did not abuse anyone. I did not provoke any of this."

You didn't read MY message with understanding if you think any of that matters. How your customers (especially *potential* customers) perceive you is what matters. You would have done much better not to discuss it (at least in the way you did) in the first place.

You provided a reasonable explanation for why you posted your ads the way you did. Had you simply done that and ended by saying you were sorry if you had offended anyone, and asked them (POLITELY!) to discuss any further concerns privately, you would have come across as a reasonable person with good intentions. Instead, you appeared (to me at least) as touchy, defensive, and unpleasant. That's enough to put any merchant out of consideration for any of my future business. It doesn't matter whether you think that's unfair, or foolish, or whatever. It doesn't matter that you were responding to what you saw as an unfair attack. I (and probably the other people posting in this thread) don't stand to lose anything important in this discussion. I'm not trying to sell anybody anything. YOU ARE. You stand to lose business over this issue.

"If anyone contacted you and started telling you that you had done something you hadn't, then you would be agravated. If they did it more than once and continued to try to prove themselves right no matter what you would get angry. If they call you certain names, you would be ANGRY! Understand now?"

Yes, I would be angry. (Well, not at the name-calling; name-calling amuses me more than anything else, as it's a sign the other person has run out of real arguments.) But if I were a seller, no matter how offended I was, I would have responded to the first message from "Unknown" by stating the facts politely and apologinig for any misunderstandings, because I would have cared more about the impression I was giving other people who read this forum than about defending myself. Most importantly, I would have responded to any criticisms from Dave by either (1) accepting his terms unconditionally or (2) saying I was sorry, but I would have to stop using the classified ads under those terms. What I would *NOT* have done was to show anything but gratitude to him for providing the "Classifieds"section and giving us the privelege of using it.

"I don't really care about this at all. I am a mature enough and old enough man to know how stupid and childish the attempts were and are.That will never change."

Regardless of you mature you may be, you didn't *appear* that way. That's what counts.

"You made an awful lot of statements as to what I have done and what I am based on a few tiny FORUM responses. I don't know how you or anyone else can get such detailed information about what a person is, by such few words."

"YOU CAN"T. No one is that smart. You nor anyone else has a right to state what I am or anyone else is on a public FORUM. But can provoke certain responses, to try to anger a person into writing something that some of you will walk away from. But in the end, the techniques don't change the facts or the truth. "

People get wrong impressions all the time. You could be the nicest, sweetest guy on Earth for all I know. But people act on what they believe, and if you lose a sale because of a false impression, it still costs you money. The people who provoke or misjudge you don't lose anything.

The fact that you responded to my advice with another defensive message about how right you are and about how I have no right to state these things just reinforces my original opinion. I simply won't do business with someone who can't handle complaints in a calm, polite and impersonal manner.

                                                                                          
Re: Counterproductive Messages
Message #20 Posted by doug on 3 June 2002, 12:35 p.m.,
in response to message #19 by Wayne Brown

Do you actually realize what you wrote. You wrote honesty in business isn't important as long as you are popular.

You simply don't know what this is about. Yes I resented you making a comment about my postings. You obviously didn't read my postings with understanding. No one had a right to write anything about me in a negative light on a public forum. Or comment about it. It should have been handled by email where it was started, or by two attorneys if a person doesn't clearly know when they are in the wrong and simply back off and let it go. When a webmaster constantly demands to be acknowledged as right at all times, is wrong. When one of them always tries to involve other people and never handle anything themselves, they are wrong. When they try to get multiple buddies to provoke and annoy and abuse, and then expect to be apologized to, then they are idiots. Do you understand now? You can't just write what you want about a person especially to anger people towards them, or to provoke them.

Dave Hicks brought private discussions to a FORUM.

Do you understand what is wrong and who is in the wrong? I have to hold my comments now until some information is provided to me.

You are wrong about sales. People that know me, trust me, and know when they buy from me they will get what I describe. Not technicalities, or excuses. Sometimes they pay more when they buy from me than other places. Some people think that I charge a fortune and make a fortune. Some try to stiff me with prices. I actually try to help them make money. Some think because we are in the US we are loaded. Wrong. I make $5 to $50 on almost any sale. That is before paying any bills. Computer cost, electric, or any of my time. I actually make about $1 an hour down to -$3 to maybe $4 at times.Some of the people on this website will say anything. They are all wrong. I am not a merchant, nor do I have a merchant account. Everyone that has insinuated I am running a business is full of crap. Do you understand now. They lie. They don't have any proof of what they claim because there isn't any! Did any of this simply sink into your heads this time? DID you read and comprehend what I wrote this time? Do you really expect me to tell these kind of people I am sorry. You got it backwards PAL. They owe me many public apologies.

The people that buy from me know I filter what I sell. I recently got a piece of junk dumped on me by a seller on MoHPC. He also runs a museum. I didn't receive a working calculator I purchased but a calculator that had 5 holes punched in the keyboard membrane. He tried to claim it was done in shipping even though I sent him photographs of the box and there was no damage. But the damage was on the inside of the calculator where it could only have been done by use or abuse. Or simply something hot dumped on the keyboard like coffee with sugar, and then waiting until it dried and hardened and then pushed the buttons and they punctured the membrane.

I didn't and wouldn't try to dump something on someone else. It was junk at the price paid but fine as a parts calculator. I could never find the part to repair it so I posted an ad to sell it as parts only.

I also bought a unit from a guy the same week in Europe where that one was from, and it was exactly like he told me. I was amazed. He made it possible for me to hold my breath and just make it work. Without a dose of his honesty I would have flipped. Do this enough and let me see you be so sweet and kind.

Anyone that has gone through that type of situation once, knows what a drain it is on you as a person, financially, time, trust, you name it.

That is why most people that buy from me come back when they want something. They know I won't try to dump something on them. That is the main reason. They know I will have handled it, and not them. I am some people security blanky.

At this time, I have list from people in both the USA and Europe, and I can't even find 2% of what they have requested. Some have strict almost impossible prices, and some have items that just don't ever show up. They didn't watch MoHPC as much as they did, because they had me doing it. So yes, they are paying me to watch the websites, and find what they want, if I find what they want. I don't just buy and sell. I am actively looking all the time for items that are already sold if I can find them.

I won't be able to buy from people on MoHPC if they have something that is on a list that a person wants.People on MoHPC won't see what I have found that they may want to purchase. People on MoHPC that I use to buy from won't make those sales now. People that use to sell to me on MoHPC won't see my money or other peoples that I have to spend for them. Now you look at what you wrote, and look at what I wrote. Who is right?

I have other websites that gratefully welcome me.Their main complaints are con artist and liars. They love honesty. I am no real problem to them or their users. I tried one a few days ago for the fun of it. My sales are up 400% on what I do have. And I can sale anything including a pissed off moose it I had one. They wouldn't care, and someone would buy him just to say he owns a pissed off moose. Understand?

This isn't all personally to you. This is to those that know who they are and what they have done. They can be smug today, and they will pay tomorrow. To those that didn't get the beam out of their own eye before trying to get the splinter out of mine, will find out for sure. That is for those that like to put God Bless immediately after breaking the golden rule. Talk about hypocrites.

                                                                                                
Re: Counterproductive Messages
Message #21 Posted by Wayne Brown on 3 June 2002, 3:22 p.m.,
in response to message #20 by doug

Well, it's clear that I'm wasting my time trying to help you here, so I'll quit trying. But first I'll address a few points from your latest message:

"Do you actually realize what you wrote. You wrote honesty in business isn't important as long as you are popular."

Believe it or not, it's possible to be honest and courteous at the same time. Think about it. It's not such a difficult concept.

I never said "honesty in business isn't important." I said that honesty ALONE isn't enough. For someone who keeps harping on "reading with understanding" you certainly seem to have some issues with reading comprehension.

"Dave Hicks brought private discussions to a FORUM."

This thread was started by someone who was posting as "Unknown." Dave didn't get into it until after you responded to "Unknown's" message. Are you implying that Dave and "Unknown" are the same person? Someone else has already confessed to being "Unknown." Besides, why do you think you are free to criticize the way Dave runs his forum? As I keep pointing out, you (and the rest of us) are his guests here. If Dave gives you instructions in the use of the forum, whether publicly or in private email, your options are to (1) leave or (2) say "Yes sir, Mr. Hicks, sir." Talking about him the way you've been doing demonstrates ingratitude and just plain rudeness. He must be a much more patient person than I am; by now I would have banned you from the "Classified" forum (and possibly the "Discussion" forum too) if I were in his place.

"Do you understand what is wrong and who is in the wrong? I have to hold my comments now until some information is provided to me."

I don't have much hope of this, since you've already told us several times that you weren't going to discuss it further, but somehow your messages keep appearing. However, I actually *meant* it when I said I was going to quit, so this is my last message in this thread. If you feel the need to have the last word, then feel free to insult or ignore me as you choose. You've already convinced me that I will never do business with you under any circumstances.

As a parting gift, here are a couple of old sayings you may want to mediatate upon:

"The customer is always right."

"Don't bite the hand that feeds you."

                                                
Re: This discussion is appropriate here
Message #22 Posted by Spice_Man on 1 June 2002, 3:58 p.m.,
in response to message #11 by doug

>I will agree that the same exact ad posted all the time at >the top of the list would be annoying. But if a new item >is added, and it is exactly what you are looking for, then >it isn't annoying to that person.

Then may I suggest you post only the new item, and not your entire repeat listing?

>You have people that are lazy at everything. They just >don't want to read and see what is different.

I think most of us have better things to do than to try and peruse through your entire ad every other day to see what may be different.

>They want to tell you how to place your ads for them. Well >if they want to do the work that is fine with me. But I >don't like people telling me what to do with my property.

The classified section is not your property. It is Dave's property, provided to us for us to borrow, free of charge. It is a privilege for us to be able to post in the classified section. I believe many of us feel that you have been abusing this privilege, with disregard for many of the regular users here.

Perhaps you can at least try take this into account when posting future ads.

                                                      
Re: This discussion is appropriate here
Message #23 Posted by doug on 1 June 2002, 7:26 p.m.,
in response to message #22 by Spice_Man

"Then may I suggest you post only the new item, and not your entire repeat listing?"

The combined ad has 3 main purposes, and I only went back to it after I tried all the other ways.

1. To keep the website clear of so many ads from one person, which seems to make some people want to whine and complain about that. 2. To keep the frequency of repost to a minimum, which this way does. If you need it explained the read my other postings on this issue. The answer is there. 3. To keep from having to track so many individual ads when an item is sold or a change is necessary. One item sales from an ad with associated items.

If you want to do the work to keep up with my ads for at least 3 months and see what it is like I will be glad to let you. I will also let you answer the people's questions. Would you also like to actually do the sales and then send me the money. When a person want one item that is with two others and you finally decide to sell I want you to show me how you make sure that ad is posted again, and especially if that person also wants 2 other items from 2 other like ads. But try it yourself first. Then you will start to understand.

"I think most of us have better things to do than to try and peruse through your entire ad every other day to see what may be different."

Then don't. I don't understand why you care so much about this issue because you have never bought anything from me anyway, nor have you even contacted me that I remember. I designed this ad from experience so that a person can look through it in less than 30 seconds on the average. Keyword at the beginning of each entry that identifies the item. It is fast and simple.

So what is there to complain about? The main people that actually read my ads are users. They are the people that are really looking for items they need to accomplish real work, and they do buy. Very few collectors have. Most already have 5 or 10 of everything they really want anyway. But you have never purchased anything from me so why do you care at all?

Mine: "They want to tell you how to place your ads for them. Well if they want to do the work that is fine with me. But I don't like people telling me what to do with my property."

Yours: "The classified section is not your property. It is Dave's property, provided to us for us to borrow, free of charge. It is a privilege for us to be able to post in the classified section. I believe many of us feel that you have been abusing this privilege, with disregard for many of the regular users here. Perhaps you can at least try take this into account when posting future ads."

Your response is totally invalid. This was made to a person other than yourself over an issue you know nothing about.

This is the last thing I will say to you on this issue. I ran a classified ad. It is none of your business to make any public comment about my classified ad. EVER.

If you wanted to lodge a complaint about a documented rule being broken by me then you should have written the webmaster and filed a formal complaint. You should have never posted you personal opinion on a FORUM and neither should have anyone else.

This was invalid and totally improper treatment of me and anyone else that has suffered through this type of abuse. And that is exactly what it is.

                                                
Re: This discussion is appropriate here
Message #24 Posted by Raymond Hellstern (Germany) on 2 June 2002, 7:52 a.m.,
in response to message #11 by doug

Hi,

to make things short:

If your nearly identical repeated postings are *not* for the same calcs, please provide the serial numbers of each unit beneath it's description from your next ad on. So everybody should be happy;-)

Since you're kind of professional seller, maybe Dave could a special 'dealer's page'...

Regards,

Raymond

BTW: I still haven't read the whole long thread, so if this idea has come up before...

            
Re: AD over posting(*long* with both ads)
Message #25 Posted by Unknown on 31 May 2002, 10:02 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by doug

<This is the forum not the classified section, and what you posted here does not belong here. This is a FORUM for resolution, not for personal slights, or threats of action against someone.>

Yes this is a forum for resolution and that's what I am doing. Were do you suggest I post it in the ad section?

Tell me were I even hinted at personal slights or threats of action? What action could I take anyway I am not the owner of this site.

Read my post it is a quote from the ad forum rules and your ads just 2 days apart.

<Corrections were made to the HP11C addendum when I realized it didn't belong with the items it was listed with. The wording on a couple of other lines were simply invalid. Want me to continue this list?>

No need to do that. Corrections, it wasn't even in the original ad. Maybe post a new ad with the new items?

<Want me to get your permission first?>

No just respect the rules of this site like everyone else does that's all.

<Other people have ran one single ad with the exact same ad information and have only changed the time of the posting and I never seen anyone complain about it. I have certainly never seen a posting like this on the FORUM before.>

Well I have seen people do that and have seen complaints. I think it was a 71B about a year ago and someone brought it up in this FORUM. I looked in the archives for the message but couldn't find it and I am not going to spend hours looking for it.

<If you wish to address me personally then select my id and send me an email personally with your email id. Don't ever post an item in the Forum to me with "UNKNOWN" again.>

"Don't ever" Who are you to tell me what to do. If Dave doesn't like my message he can delete it.

<I don't like reposting the ad at all. But when calculators or accessories have sold, or new calculators or accessories have been purchased or traded for, the ad needs to be changed. I don't set the frequency of the change, people that buy from me, or sell to me, or trade with me do.>

Both ads with changes noted:

----

Posted by doug on 29 May 2002, 12:03 a.m.

ALL ARE BRAND NEW CALCULATORS

HP11C/Case - Original retail package - Sealed - Shrink-Wrapped - New in the Box

HP12C/Case - Original retail package - Sealed plastic Blister Pac with Manual & 1 Lithium Cell

HP16C/Case - No Box - No Handbook

HP17BII/Case - Original retail package - Calculator in plastic cage with shrink-wrapped Handbooks

HP28S/Case - Original retail package - Calculator in plastic cage with Both Spiral Handbooks

HP42S/Case - Replacement Unit Box - Plastic cage - No Manual

HP48G/Case - Original retail package - Calculator in plastic cage with shrink-wrapped Handbooks

USED CALCULATORS

HP11C/Case - Original retail Box - Shrink-Wrapped Handbook & Addendum Card, Service Card

HP15C/Case - No Box - Clean display, positive key action, clean silkscreen, Bezel has one scratch

HP15C/Case - No Box - Clean display, positive key action, clean bezel & silkscreen

HP15C/Case - No Box - Minor places on corner of screen, and back. Key action like new

HP16C/Case - No Box - Clean display, positive key action, clean silkscreen

HP16C/Case - No Box - Just like new - Professionally Engraved Name & Company Name

HP45/Kit - Travel Case, Leather Case, Manuals, A/C Charger, Warranty Cards, New Batteries

HP48G/Case - Original retail package - Calculator/Case with User Guide

HANDBOOKS

HP11C Owner's Handbook and Problem-Solving Guide 00011-90001 2/81 Spiral - Mint Rare

HP15C Owner's Handbook 00015-90001 English 6/87 Spiral

HP15C Owner's Handbook 00015-90001 8/82 (GERMAN Hardbound)

HP16C Computer Scientist Owner's Handbook 00016-90001 9/85

HP71B Quick Reference Guide 00071-90019 10/83 Mint

HP71B Owner's Manual 00071-90001 10/83 - Rough Cover - Mint Clean Pages

CASES

New HP Leather Case / Flap - 92169[D(Black) / E(Brown) / F(Burgundy)] 6.5" H x 4" W x 3/4 D

Woodstock Series Zippered Case (21, 22, 25 27, 29c) - Looks like miniature HP71B Carrying Case

OTHER

HP71B 4K Memory Modules - 82420A - 2 Boxed & Booklet - Static Pac's opened

HP71B Card Reader 82400A - Booklet 82400-90001 / 5 cnt pack Magnetic Cards / New in Box

HP71B HP-IL Interface Module 82401A - Owner's Manual 90026 - QRG 90010 - New in Box

HP Voyager Series Battery Compartment Doors - Brand New - Fits 11C, 12C, 15C, & 16C

PayPal or Money Order Accepted

eMail for photographs

Prefer Trades? SHARP EL-5500II, EL-5500III, CE-126P, EL-520, EL-525, 10 Rolls of EA-3815P,

TI-92, TI-36X Solar, TI-1700 Data Clip (Dead) with Leather Case,

TI Programmer, TI-LCD Programmer, TI-LCD Programmer II

Ditto Max Professional External Tape Drives - Shrink Wrapped Retail Packages,

Compatible with Win95/98 & SE / 3.1 / NT

Contact alwaysup@att.net

----

Posted by doug on 31 May 2002, 2:57 p.m.

BRAND NEW CALCULATORS

HP11C/Case - Original retail package - Sealed - Shrink-Wrapped - New in the Box

HP12C/Case - Original retail package - Sealed plastic Blister Pac with Manual & 1 Lithium Cell

HP16C/Case - No Box - No Handbook

HP17BII/Case - Original retail package - Calculator in plastic cage with shrink-wrapped Handbooks

HP28S/Case - Original retail package - Calculator in plastic cage with Both Spiral Handbooks

HP42S/Case - Replacement Unit Box - Plastic cage - No Manual

HP48G/Case - Original retail package - Calculator in plastic cage with shrink-wrapped Handbooks

USED CALCULATORS

HP11C/Case - Original retail Box - Shrink-Wrapped Handbook, Service Card

HP15C/Case - No Box - Clean display, positive key action, clean silkscreen, Bezel has one scratch

HP15C/Case - No Box - Clean display, positive key action, clean bezel & silkscreen

HP15C/Case - No Box - Minor places on edge of screen, and back. Key action like new

HP16C/Case - No Box - Clean display, positive key action, clean silkscreen

HP16C/Case - No Box - Just like new - Professionally Engraved Name & Company Name

HP45/Kit - Travel Case, Leather Case, Manuals, A/C Charger, Warranty Cards, New Batteries

HP48G/Case - Original retail package - Calculator/Case with User Guide

HANDBOOKS

HP11C Owner's Handbook and Problem-Solving Guide 00011-90001 2/81 Spiral - Mint Rare

-> HP11C Solutions Handbook 00011-90009 Spiral - Shrink Wrapped

-> HP11C Addendum 00011-90043 2/82 for Owner's Handbook & Problem-Solving Guide - 00011-90001 Rev. B. dated September 1981.

HP15C Owner's Handbook 00015-90001 English 6/87 Spiral

HP15C Owner's Handbook 00015-90001 8/82 (GERMAN Hardbound)

-> HP15C Advanced Functions Handbook 00015-90011 English 8/82 Spiral - New Shrink Wrapped

HP16C Computer Scientist Owner's Handbook 00016-90001 9/85

HP71B Quick Reference Guide 00071-90019 10/83 Mint

HP71B Owner's Manual 00071-90001 10/83 - Rough Cover - Mint Clean Pages

CASES

New HP Leather Case / Flap - 92169[D(Black) / E(Brown) / F(Burgundy)] 6.5" H x 4" W x 3/4 D

Woodstock Series Zippered Case (21, 22, 25 27, 29c) - Looks like miniature HP71B Carrying Case

OTHER

HP71B 4K Memory Modules - 82420A - 2 Boxed & Booklet - Static Pac's opened

HP71B Card Reader 82400A - Booklet 82400-90001 / 5 cnt pack Magnetic Cards / New in Box

HP71B HP-IL Interface Module 82401A - Owner's Manual 90026 - QRG 90010 - New in Box

HP Voyager Series Battery Compartment Doors - Brand New - Fits 11C, 12C, 15C, & 16C

PayPal or Money Order Accepted

eMail for photographs

-> Please respect the selected ad listing type: (FSBO) For Sale at Best Offer

Prefer Trades? SHARP EL-5500II, EL-5500III, CE-126P, EL-520, EL-525, 10 Rolls of EA-3815P

TI-92, TI-36X Solar, TI-1700 Data Clip (Dead) with Leather Case,

TI Programmer, TI-LCD Programmer, TI-LCD Programmer II

-> Litronix 2140 Scientific & A/C Adapter - Both New in Box

Ditto Max Professional External Tape Drives - Shrink Wrapped Retail Packages,

Compatible with Win95/98 & SE / 3.1 / NT

Contact alwaysup@att.net

----

It doesn't look like you have sold a thing. You just added a few more items. Why not post another ad with the new items?

Can't you give some other folks a chance to have there ad at the top for awhile. This isn't the only time you have done this. Relax, if somebody wants your items they will email you, Right? I bet you have been flooded with emails.

The reason I don't give my email is because I don't want to have to go through the abuse emails to your ISP because of flaming emails from you. I think your first paragraph confirms what I mean.

EOL

                  
In defense of Doug
Message #26 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 31 May 2002, 11:30 p.m.,
in response to message #25 by Unknown

Though I've been in "lurker mode" in this terrific forum for us HP fans, I've read this thread and I want to say some words in praise of Doug.

I won't discuss his recent adds, though I must say I didn't feel annoyed by them, at all. If anything, I found his offerings interesting and even made him an offer for one of his items, which was kindly refused.

The point is, apart from his adds, Doug has been a frequent contributor to this forum, posting his valuable opinions at times, helping people who asked questions now and then. He has always tried to help, and I've found his attitude quite positive and of a most amiable nature. That's my opinion of him as a forum contributor.

On the other hand, as a seller, I've bought a number of items from him in the past, and he always was most kind, provided perfect and accurate descriptions, sent lots and lots of detailed pictures, and most importantly, sent perfect items, many times unbelievably mint, extremely well packaged. Not only wasn't I ever dissatisfied, but each and every time I was amazed at the extreme care he took with his 'customers', well above and beyond 'the call of duty'.

That said, my point is this: I can't believe that Doug has been posting those adds unkindly, so to say, as I think he's one of the kindest, most considerated sellers I've met. If he has annoyed some people with them, I'm sure he did it unknowingly, else he would never have acted so. And in any case, as a valuable, helpful member of this forum and an honest, caring seller, he's a real asset to all HP fans and collectors, and he deserves respect and, at the very least "the benefit of the doubt".

If someone was annoyed by his adds, I think the proper thing would have been to think something like "No, I can't believe Doug is abusing anyone, let's get in touch with him", and see what happens. But the way he has been treated re this theme seems to me on the verge of abuse. Let's cool a little those tempers, let this matter settle, and let's be friends like always, for the benefit of this forum and all its contributors.

Best regards from Valentin Albillo.

                        
Re: In defense of Doug
Message #27 Posted by Christof (US) on 1 June 2002, 1:40 a.m.,
in response to message #26 by Valentin Albillo

I'll agree that, in general, I'm not annoyed by Doug's ads. I haven't purchased anything from him yet, but our private communications on the subject have been quite good.

I do think a better brief mode for the main display might be nice- but I'm not sure how he could get the info on what's for sale in one line.

Anyway, my vote would be to err on the side of laxity than to err on the side of restriction.

Christof

                        
In praise of Valentin!
Message #28 Posted by Gene wright on 1 June 2002, 9:49 a.m.,
in response to message #26 by Valentin Albillo

I was so pleased to see your post to the forum. Please allow me to thank you for all the wonderful HP41 games and programs you contributed to PPC over the years. They were always some of my favorites. In fact, I typed up your Othello game and put it on my webpage a couple of years ago.

Do you happen to have any games lying around that never made it into the journal?

Gene Wright http://www.rskey.org/gene/hpgene

                              
Re: In praise of Valentin!
Message #29 Posted by Valentin Albillo on 2 June 2002, 8:33 p.m.,
in response to message #28 by Gene wright

Hi Gene, best regards from Valentin Albillo:

Thank you very much for your kind words and for your enthusiasm about my humble HP contributions of the distant past, to the point of manually keying-in some of my programs and including their listings on your excellent web site.

I will contact you off list tomorrow (it's nearly 2:30 AM right now in Madrid, Spain) and send you some HP-related articles, etc. of mine, which you may like.

Again, thanks for your wonderful message and

Best regards from Valentin Albillo

                  
Re: AD over posting(*long* with both ads)
Message #30 Posted by doug on 1 June 2002, 12:24 a.m.,
in response to message #25 by Unknown

Like I stated, people like you are a waste of time. The ad you copied was changed a couple or three times that day if I remember correctly.

And even if something is added, it is added. What is the difference in putting a new ad on top or just updating the current ad. It is the same end result except now there are two ads to maintain, and if they get reposted then they may happen every three days or so. And if there are three ads, they might get reposted every 2 days or so. And if there are four or more ads they may get reposted every day. That is why I chose the way I have.Tested and tried. I got tired of reposting like ads I had.

Most people that call people names like "FLAME" are childish mentalities that never had to grow up yet. But the time is coming in this country where most of you will have to.

Read my response to Dave Hicks. A response is in there for you personally. CHILD!!!

They shouldn't allow you to post anything on a forum!!!!!!!!

                        
Re: AD over posting(*long* with both ads)
Message #31 Posted by Spice_Man on 1 June 2002, 1:18 a.m.,
in response to message #30 by doug

...so who's being childish?

                              
Re: AD over posting(*long* with both ads)
Message #32 Posted by doug on 1 June 2002, 1:52 a.m.,
in response to message #31 by Spice_Man

People that take the time to criticize a classified ad to this extent, and hide their identities, are childish.

People that call other persons names like "flames" are childish.

A person that is above 16 years of age and still believe that it is ever appropriate to call a person any kind of name is childish. Is that a clear enough and direct answer for you and to you, or do you need a better explanation?

                        
Re: AD over posting
Message #33 Posted by Unknown on 1 June 2002, 8:00 a.m.,
in response to message #30 by doug

<Most people that call people names like "FLAME" are childish mentalities that never had to grow up yet. But the time is coming in this country where most of you will have to.>

<Read my response to Dave Hicks. A response is in there for you personally. CHILD!!!>

Look at these two quotes from YOUR message carefully.

This is my last comment on this. I don't think anymore are needed. This is just beating a dead horse now.

EOL

                              
possible solution for the next time
Message #34 Posted by db(martinez,california) on 1 June 2002, 11:04 a.m.,
in response to message #33 by Unknown

dave; can you make the "password" a mandatory field in the adds section so that we can't forget and then the regular posters can delete their own out of date ads.

                                    
Re: possible solution for the next time
Message #35 Posted by Dave Hicks on 1 June 2002, 4:15 p.m.,
in response to message #34 by db(martinez,california)

The classifieds section doesn't work like the main forum. Because deletion is to be expected, and because people kept forgetting their passwords, no passwords are required to delete ads in the classifieds section - just a simple step to prevent web crawlers from deleting ads by accident.


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