HP Forum Archive 07

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First calculator on Moon Message #1 Posted by Thomas Hunt on 18 Jan 2002, 10:50 a.m. Was there an HP calculator on the Apollo 11 flight (first landing on the moon)? If so, which one was it??

Re: First calculator on Moon Message #2 Posted by Jerry Doctor on 18 Jan 2002, 12:04 p.m., in response to message #1 by Thomas Hunt HP advertised that their calculator was the back-up for the onboard computers on the Apollo-Soyuz mission. This, however, was after the last moon landing. Off topic - Whenever someone gives me the old "If we can send a man to the moon..." I always interrupt and point out we CAN'T send a man to the moon. Our parents could, but not us.

Very well said (sad?), Doc... Message #3 Posted by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) on 18 Jan 2002, 1:39 p.m., in response to message #2 by Jerry Doctor Hi; despite the fact I (as many) am not from the country that sent a group of men to the moon, I could not agree more with your words. After reading your post, some sort of sadness took my mind. I would like adding another question: do you believe it's only a trip to the moon we (you.S.A.) are not able to achieve? We (mankind) are loosing our breath... for the new, teasing challenges. That includes, of course, new, challenging, revolutionary calculators, palms, etc... Comments?

Re: Very well said (sad?), Doc... Message #4 Posted by W. Bruce Maguire II on 18 Jan 2002, 5:42 p.m., in response to message #3 by Vieira, Luiz C. (Brazil) Luiz said: After reading your post, some sort of sadness took my mind. I would like adding another question: do you believe it's only a trip to the moon we (you.S.A.) are not able to achieve? We (mankind) are loosing our breath... for the new, teasing challenges. Wise words Luiz! The U.S. is in the worst shape, in my opinion. Engineering is but a shadow of what it once was. I---along with all my engineering colleagues---hold those Apollo-era engineers in the hightest regard! But engineers---and more important: engineering geniuses---are no longer valued. Today it is marketing, mergers, acquisitions, and IMAGE that matters most. There ARE no more Apollo engineers. There ARE no more 1974 Hewlett-Packard engineers. They have been replaced with de-motivated (or worthless) engineers. The motivated ones are with marketing people who have mastered business/marketing speak. They are the group that is NOW valued in our country (Carly at HP is a good example). And, unfortunately, the U.S. leads the world in these self-destructive practices. We are falling quickly from grace, and I don't see a way out in the near future. Bruce.

Re: Very well said (sad?), Doc... Message #5 Posted by Mike Meyer on 18 Jan 2002, 10:17 p.m., in response to message #4 by W. Bruce Maguire II Sorry for the gripe/warning, but I have to chime in here. All week the local paper has talked about how there's no mental health care for kids available anymore, and in another section of the paper, they announced another 35 million dollar Medicaid cut. The World Health Organization (WHO) has been saying for years that mental health is our number 1 world-wide medical crisis, yet the people who hold the money keep cutting it back. There are never any open beds at the hospital. Nobody is bothering to go into debt to train for a dying profession. Our country (USA) no longer values (rewards) intellect or training. Doctors are replaced by nurses. Nurses are replaced by "medication assistants" with only two months training. (It costs less, I guess. But I think not, in the long run.) Recently, I've had no time to collect HP's. I've been on the phone nearly continously trying to handle increasing psychiatric emergencies. By the way: there were 50,000 physicians doing research in the U.S. ten years ago. Now there are only 15,000. And most are nearing retirement. It should be interesting. Michael

Re: First calculator on Moon Message #6 Posted by Tom (UK) on 21 Jan 2002, 1:41 p.m., in response to message #2 by Jerry Doctor I think the moon missions were the last point at which man was capable of achieving what was technically possible (and what a fantastic acheivement it was). All through history practical scientists have been sitting around waiting for technology to catch up with their ideas. As soon as it came along they did what was possible either self funded or with the help of a rich doner. Now technology has outstripped national capabilities (even of the US / ex USSR) and the scientists no longer wait for the method but the funding and the will. PS - What did the moon missions (or space race) give us? NOT non-stick frying pans (I think those were invented before WWII). It did give the micro-electronics industry a massive boost that then was applied to the millitary and then to industry and then the consumer in the form of cheap electronic goods. It probably jumped the U.S. about 10 - 15 years ahead and gave then the domination in micro-electronics for the last 20 - 30 years. So your US dollars did go to a good home.

Re: First calculator on Moon Message #7 Posted by Steve on 18 Jan 2002, 12:44 p.m., in response to message #1 by Thomas Hunt The HP 41 series did enjoy an illustrious career aboard the space shuttle in the '80s. Check out: http://www.nasm.si.edu/nasm/dsh/artifacts/GC-hewlett-.htm

Re: First calculator on Moon Message #8 Posted by Mike McDonald on 18 Jan 2002, 4:17 p.m., in response to message #7 by Steve Interesting Article - questions now are - 1. Where are the Rest of them? 2. What were the modification specifics as to parts removed? 3. Where are the NASA modules? may be another good reason to keep searching the NASA surplus sale . . . . ....?

Re: First calculator on Moon Message #9 Posted by Tom (UK) on 21 Jan 2002, 1:30 p.m., in response to message #8 by Mike McDonald Well I suppose the first pocket calculator was a slide rule: "Apollo astronauts carried 5-inch slide rules with them on missions to the Moon" I'd guess that NASA removed the batteries - NiCADs contain lots of nasties, especialy if you have a fixed ammount of air to breath! Tantalum capacitors are also not very nice if they decide to go pop. When encapsulating integrated chips (ic's) you have to make sure there are no air pockets in the package. This is because when entering a low preasure area the package might explode. I can't think of any other nasty bits in the electronics.

Re: First calculator on Moon Message #10 Posted by Wayne Brown on 19 Jan 2002, 4:39 a.m., in response to message #1 by Thomas Hunt No, the only handheld calculating devices used on the first Apollo moon landings (other than pencil and paper :-) were Pickett 600-ES Dual Base Log/Log slide rules. They were carried on five Apollo missions, so possibly ten slide rules went to the Moon. I have one of these little beauties in front of me right now (well, one of the same *model*, not one of the actual rules that went to the Moon!). It's a five-inch rule, so it fits nicely in a shirt pocket, and has a very nice leather case with a pocket clip. I carry mine with me all the time. If you want to see one of these (and other very nice slide rules, by Pickett and other manufacturers), Eric Marcotte has some excellent pictures and info on his Web site: http://www.sliderule.ca is the main page and http://www.sliderule.ca/pickett.htm has the Pickett pictures.

Re: First calculator on Moon Message #11 Posted by Larry on 21 Jan 2002, 11:01 a.m., in response to message #10 by Wayne Brown For the record, the first HP calculator to go into space was the HP-35. "For example, the HP-35, Hewlett-Packard's first scientific calculator, was standard equipment on three manned Skylab missions." (HP Digest Volume 8, Page 3) Even though no HP calculator went to the moon, the story of the computer which actually did go to the moon is no less interesting. You can read about it at: http://www.abc.net.au/science/moon/computer.htm

Re: First calculator on Moon Message #12 Posted by Joe Panico on 23 Jan 2002, 10:53 a.m., in response to message #10 by Wayne Brown Wayne, I seem to remember a story that when Gemini 6 & 7 rendezvoused, Wally Schirra entered data into the onboard computer while at the same time using his slide rule to calculate the exact time of the event. He found the answer first. Joe

Re: First calculator on Moon Message #13 Posted by Ellis Easley on 23 Jan 2002, 12:07 p.m., in response to message #12 by Joe Panico I understand there was a custom-built by IBM computer in the Lunar Module. I remember that a computer was controlling the descent on Apollo 11 until Armstrong took over and landed because there were boulders on the original landing site. I wonder if that computer had a calculator function?

Re: First calculator on Moon Message #14 Posted by Ellis Easley on 23 Jan 2002, 12:21 p.m., in response to message #13 by Ellis Easley The article that Larry pointed to set me straight on the Apollo computer.

Re: First calculator on Moon Message #15 Posted by Chris Randle (Lincoln, UK) on 24 Jan 2002, 2:56 p.m., in response to message #13 by Ellis Easley I understand there was a custom-built by IBM computer in the Lunar Module. I remember that a computer was controlling the descent on Apollo 11 until Armstrong took over and landed because there were boulders on the original landing site. I wonder if that computer had a calculator function? I was going to make a flippant reply (and I usually manage to resist that sort of urge) but the more I thought about it the more it became a serious comment. I intend this to be thought provoking... If there is ever another manned landing on a celestial body, Mars for example, does anybody think that Microsoft will write any of the mission critical software?

Re: First calculator on Moon Message #16 Posted by Ellis Easley on 24 Jan 2002, 3:43 p.m., in response to message #15 by Chris Randle (Lincoln, UK) No. I've see "2001" a number of times, both normal and widescreen, and I never saw the MicroSoft logo on anything.

Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey -- "HAL" came from "IBM" Message #17 Posted by Paul Brogger on 25 Jan 2002, 1:18 p.m., in response to message #16 by Ellis Easley You're aware, of course that "HAL" in fact was derived by combining the alphabetically preceding letters in "IBM" -- "H"/"I", "A"/"B", "L"/"M". Using that encoding algorithm, "L"/"M", "H"/"I", "B"/"C","Q"/"R", "N"/"O", "R"/"S", "N"/"O", "E"/"F", and "S"/"T", or "LHBQNRNES". No, I don't think I saw the Microsoft logo anywhere in the movie . . . But folks might want to suggest other encodings or acrostics of "Microsoft" (for which we should keep peeled a jaundiced eye!)

Re: 2001: A Space Odyssey -- "HAL" came from "IBM" Message #18 Posted by Werner Huysegoms on 28 Jan 2002, 2:23 a.m., in response to message #17 by Paul Brogger According to Arthur C. Clarke himself, that was merely a coincidence, not his intention.

Re: Microsoft's contributions to future space exploration . . . Message #19 Posted by Paul Brogger on 25 Jan 2002, 1:22 p.m., in response to message #16 by Ellis Easley Another thought occurred to me: Computer: "Where do you want to go today?" Astronaut: "I wish you wouldn't keep asking that!"

Re: Microsoft's contributions to future space exploration . . . Message #20 Posted by Bill Duncan on 26 Jan 2002, 7:29 p.m., in response to message #19 by Paul Brogger Here's a thought experiment: You're in a hospital in critical condition. They're about to connect you to a life saving device, and you have two choices. One is programmed by that company in Redmond with all the code "secret". The other uses open source programs, reviewed and checked by many people in the field, with no motivation to keep any bugs "secret"...

Re: Life support... Message #21 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 27 Jan 2002, 4:44 p.m., in response to message #20 by Bill Duncan In the first case you may pass in a friendly manner, in the second you may live a terse and boring life... (not to be taken so seriously) I would prefer HP medical support systems, which used to be (are still?) very good in the period when the HP41 was designed...

Re: Life support... Message #22 Posted by Sam on 28 Jan 2002, 1:06 a.m., in response to message #21 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) HP's "medical support systems" has been spun off of HP as Agilent Technologies. Sam

Re: Microsoft's contributions to future space exploration . . . Message #23 Posted by frank on 28 Jan 2002, 3:27 p.m., in response to message #20 by Bill Duncan Not to mention the s/w might need upgraded during surgery, requiring a reboot plus non-existant device drivers that maybe 25% exist and must be downloaded from the still in business suppliers site, and the others........, well the patient probably did not make it through the reboot. Hope they do start doing avionics s/w one day

XEQ LANDME Message #24 Posted by Thibaut.be on 27 Jan 2002, 4:08 p.m., in response to message #16 by Ellis Easley As a teenager, I dreamt about this program of the 41 after I saw the ad with the shuttle, that would save the life of the astronauts if the central computer was dead... Imagine... Computer is out ? No problem ! just take my 41, plug in the IL module connected to the dashboard, key in XEQ LANDME and we're safe home pals ! More seriously, my cousin was studying physics in Namur at that time. He was (and still is 15 years after) studying stuffs with laser in a vacuum environment. I often visited him in his lab. Taking measures over there was critical because it took several days to have the acceptable level of vacuum. It was just reached when the computer that piloted the laser beam went dead. It was quite a easy job, just sending 3 coordinates, but without a computer to do it... My cousin asked me if I had my 41, and the technician said ! Jeez ! we're saved ! he quickly connected a IL module to my 41 and plugged in the 2 IL wires in a home made interface... they could make their measures thanks to my calc... I was 17, ans was so proud of my litlle toy !

Re: First calculator on Moon Message #25 Posted by Spice_Man on 24 Jan 2002, 10:11 p.m., in response to message #15 by Chris Randle (Lincoln, UK) No...Microsoft products have too many "features."

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