HP Forum Archive 06

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Is there a non-programmable RPN calculator? Message #1 Posted by ryan watson on 25 July 2001, 7:34 p.m. Hi, I need an RPN calculator (because non-RPN calculators drive me nuts) but I need something simple and specifically NOT programmable. I need something I can use on exams where programmable calculators or calculators that can store data are forbidden. Is there any such thing currently available or do I have to get a vintage hp-35? Thanks, Ryan

Re: Is there a non-programmable RPN calculator? Message #2 Posted by John Ioannidis on 25 July 2001, 7:54 p.m., in response to message #1 by ryan watson The only non-programmable RPN calculator currently being made is the HP17BII. It's a "business" calculator, with some math (but no trig). If you need trig and no programmability, you'll have to look on ebay. I have occasionally seen the 32E being offered; that's probably the best scientific non-programmable RPN calculator. Other choices would be the 31E, 27 (extremely rare), 21 (rare), 45 (relatively easy), 35 (relatively easy, which is amazing given the age of the thing). You probably don't want the 35 in an exam, though; 2^3 is not 8, and it has a x^y instead of a y^x key; that will probably confuse you. The main problem you'll have with all these is battery time (oh, and don't neglect to rebuild the battery pack; 20-year-old NiCd batteries won't be holding much charge). LEDs draw a lot of power. You can somehow mitigate that by pressing the decimal point between calculations (or just turn it off if you don't mind losing results). Good luck, /ji

Re: Is there a non-programmable RPN calculator? Message #3 Posted by Raymond Hellstern on 26 July 2001, 1:56 a.m., in response to message #2 by John Ioannidis Hi, the 17BII *is* programmable. Maybe not in the usual way, but you can store many expressions which can interact in some way;-) The nearest to non-programmable may be the 32SII, which has only 390 bytes of RAM... I'm only talking about the models which can be purchased nowadays. I would not want to rely on the older ones, because you have to have a wall outlet for your recharger beneath your desk;-) Regards, raymond

Re: Is there a non-programmable RPN calculator? Message #4 Posted by Ron Ross on 26 July 2001, 8:40 a.m., in response to message #3 by Raymond Hellstern The Hp19BII is a step up from the 17B that is a business calc with trig. It also has Hp solve that is not considered a programmable by some (but Hp solve makes programming unnessary, just key in the eq. and it will solve for the variable you don't supply). I feel that by todays standards an Hp32s would probably be ok. IT DOESN'T say PROGRAMMABLE, and it is not an obvious graphics calculator. Only the hp32s and hp20s are available as pocket programmables, and their small programming space in comparison to a graphics doesn't put them in the same ballpark. Still if you are splitting hairs, the Hp19bII and the Hp17BII are not considered programmables by HP or most others (I consider them easy programmables), and both are RPN/Algebraic selectable.

Re: Is there a non-programmable RPN calculator? Message #5 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 26 July 2001, 10:12 a.m., in response to message #4 by Ron Ross Just to avoid misunderstandings, the HP20S is Algebraic only, with no RPN option.

Re: Is there a non-programmable RPN calculator? Message #6 Posted by Wang on 26 July 2001, 1:52 p.m., in response to message #5 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) How about the 12C?

Re: Is there a non-programmable RPN calculator? Message #7 Posted by Victor on 26 July 2001, 2:44 p.m., in response to message #6 by Wang The 12C is programmable.

Re: Is there a non-programmable RPN calculator? Message #8 Posted by Steven Soto on 26 July 2001, 5:47 p.m., in response to message #1 by ryan watson Ryan, Do you have the option of doing the three finger salute (memory clear) in front of the proctor? If so, I would go for the 32sII (or 42s, if you can get your hands on one.) The equation library (no matter how useless) on the 48 series usually excludes those for exams.

Re: Is there a non-programmable RPN calculator? Message #9 Posted by db(martinez,california) on 26 July 2001, 8:16 p.m., in response to message #8 by Steven Soto for the last 15 years i've thought that it would be great to have a "credit card" rpn. you know: a $5 throw away - 4 functions and trig with one menory. mabye a clock and hms/hr functions and charge $7. i'd buy a dozen and put one in the glove compartment, one in the bike, one by the phone, one in the checkbook.... stocking stuffers! hey - i wonder if one of thoes chinese calculator makers that dave saw could do this? with 10,000 lay offs this year i doubt hp will.

Re: Is there a non-programmable RPN calculator? Message #10 Posted by Dave Shaffer on 27 July 2001, 12:18 a.m., in response to message #9 by db(martinez,california) Is RPN patented? It's hard to believe that the legal beagles, even at the HP of 1972, would let that slip by. Otherwise, I like the idea of an el cheapo RPN machine and can't imagine why one hasn't appeared. The latest, cheapest (non-RPN, sob) from HP costs less than $15 and has far more functionality than you need most of the time! I needed a calculator for grading physics homework, tried the cheap non-RPN offering from HP and looked at TI and Casio -- and wound up buying a used '41 on E-bay, which is WAY more than I needed.

Re: Is there a non-programmable RPN calculator? Message #11 Posted by db(martinez,california) on 27 July 2001, 8:30 p.m., in response to message #10 by Dave Shaffer dave says that jan lukasiewicz (now thats polish) came up with this system in the 1920's. not much room for a patent shister there. btw: now that you have a 41; isn't it cool to use 21 year old technology and still find it the best? poor hp, until the 41 everything was an improvement or at least a useful spin off. imho they've been making replacments for the 41 for 17 years that have never been quite it.

Re: Is there a non-programmable RPN calculator? Message #12 Posted by Dave Shaffer on 28 July 2001, 2:04 p.m., in response to message #11 by db(martinez,california) db - I already had a '41(CV)( as well as an original '35 and an '11C). I tried an E-bay 38G and a new 30S, then gave up in disgust and decided that I really did need another 41 of some sort. (That's about when I discovered this forum and a bunch of like-minded reactionaries!) If the 30S just had RPN, or even an RPN option, for $14 (what I paid for it at the local CompUSA) it would be just fine. Seems to me it would cost HP 30 cents to include this and they wouldn't lose either RPN or the "other kind" of users.

Re: Is there a non-programmable RPN calculator? Message #13 Posted by db(martinez,california) on 28 July 2001, 3:56 p.m., in response to message #12 by Dave Shaffer dave; that 35 must have seemed like science fiction to you people who bought it new; trig tables to ten digit accuracy that fit in a shirt pocket. and built like a brick. /// if you have to write any physics programs be sure to donate them to the museum. you might also find some there. it's great to hear about someone teaching that uses these things. did you ever think that you'ld be a good example? sure i know that ibm type computers do more and do it faster but something like a 67-41-42-48 can navigate an apolo, land a space shuttle, design a bridge, grade physics homework, do it where you are, and not make excuses about illegal comands, disk problems and syntax errors every time you really-really need it to work. welcome back to 41 land.

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