The Museum of HP Calculators

HP Forum Archive 05

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HP Calculators - not what they should be !
Message #1 Posted by Dean L. Miller on 20 Apr 2001, 1:28 p.m.

What is HP doing? The 6S and 30S are cheap TI imitations. The 49G is not expandable (like the 48GX). It's like the people who where in charge of creating and developing calculators at HP suddenly became brain-dead!

HP needs to create a new calculator (maybe a 50gx or 52rx) with RPN and algebraic (similar to the 48GX), with 5MB of memory, backlit super crisp screen, much faster processor, able to read PC cards, infrared port, USB port, and maybe a "hot-sync" type cradle for PC connection.

Anyway... I have many HP calcs (old and new and sometimes more than one): 10c, 11c, 12c, 15c, 16c, 27s, 42s, 45, 41c, 41cv, 41cx, 71b, 17b, 95lx, 100lx, 14b, 10b, 32s, 32sii, 38g, 6s, 30s, 21s, 22s, 34c, 38c, 33c, 25c, 20s,8c, 28c, 28s, 19bii, 48gx, and 48sx.

I have many other TI, Sharp, and Casio calcs too.

I remember buying an 11c when it first came out. I thought it was the "Mercedes" of calculators.

And when I got a 41cx (cost about $200 at the time) I was thrilled to death! It was the coolest calc I ever saw.

I just don't get that same feeling anymore when I look at the calculators on the market today. Maybe it's the use of computers and Palm Pilots that has diminished the impact of new calculators. But, I think it's that new calculators have nothing unique or surprising anymore. Have we seen everything there is? I think not!

So, HP, get off you lazy butts and listen to the users of your calculators, and stop imitating the competition.

      
Re: HP Calculators - not what they should be !
Message #2 Posted by Dave on 20 Apr 2001, 2:41 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Dean L. Miller

The calculator business is not what it used to be....

            
Re: HP Calculators - not what they should be !
Message #3 Posted by db (martinez, california) on 20 Apr 2001, 8:20 p.m.,
in response to message #2 by Dave

the 32 is not bad for what it is.

      
Re: HP Calculators - not what they should be !
Message #4 Posted by Jonathan on 20 Apr 2001, 11:55 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Dean L. Miller

I think where the problem lies is that HP IS making good calculators, unfortunately they're NOT putting priority in the scientific calculators. Their financial calculators are pretty nice (and use the classic casing). At least we have the 32sii, but it's no 42s or 15c. The 48g series have great functions, but they're too bulky, slow, and fragile. I want to see something solid like the 15c. If they use that casing for their financial models, why not the scientific?

            
Re: HP Calculators - not what they should be !
Message #5 Posted by Glynn on 21 Apr 2001, 2:13 a.m.,
in response to message #4 by Jonathan

Just some random musings:

Financial calcs are pretty well-defined. Even when you think of ALL potential users and uses, you can STILL come up with a set of functions that pretty well please the lot. Indeed, that's what HP did years ago-- and why the dang things still sell after all this time.

Sci uses and users are more slippery. Each niche of the scientific market is small and sees needs and roles for their tools other niches do not. Some require graphing; others heavy matrix manipulation. Some want data-logging; others low power. PC communication for a few; programmability for most; lots of embedded functions and conversions for others. Programmers and surveyors and nuclear-reactor specialists and math teachers do not all desire the same calc. But they ALL want it cheap and easy to operate.

(How cheap and how easy? Now THOSE things can be pinned down. Because you don't operate in a vacuum. If Palms can sell for $150, a utilitarian "sci" calc can't sell for $250 and come with an inch-thick binder of programming instructions. Not anymore.)

Back in the day, HP VERY nearly accomodated everyone they could have, especially with the protean 41 series. It was NOT cheap, but still sold well, up until alternatives like full computers were attainable by the professional crowd.

The 41s and 71s and so on could be made to do ANYTHING, with enough effort. But this is no longer a selling point. Indeed, the Palms and laptops have made this moot.

So calculators, by which I mean handheld button-based computing devices, might well have evolved into MORE SPECIALIZATION... an educational/theoretical calc, a surveyor's calc, a programmer's calc, an astronomer's calc....

And some of this has come to pass, in a limited way. But a specialized calc has such a small market, by itself, it may well not pay for its own development. (This is, in my opinion, where Xpander got sniffed. The Product development group says yes, this is good technology that people will love us for. Marketing says no, it won't sell to enough people to be worth making, and we're not working for love.)

Some smaller companies, not needing so much volume, are in fact marketing such things as Surveyor's calcs and Astronomer's calcs. But you the consumer pay high prices to make up for low volume.

It's been obvious for some time that HP has de-emphasized development of new "sci" models, in favor of following the large and proven market for student and "swiss-army" tools: replete with built-in functions to attract the casual calc user, but not really expandable or utilitarian as the 41 series was. But within a student's budget, or as an impulse purchase in a WalMart or a BestBuy.

Hmmm, "swiss-army" calcs made cheap and comfortable for mass marketing-- that's what HP is possibly aiming for. Looks like they are doing it as well as they know how.

That they abandoned a tiny demand for well-built but expensive professional tools... well, lament it, but as Dave said, the calculator market is not what it used to be, and if HP brought out a calc that cost like a Palm but didn't offer all the same amenities for its size, and still had to be expanded to serve a part of its audience, well...

You'd have in fact a 48GX, and expect to serve your diverse audience with vertical-market Application Modules, which you would expect to develop over time.

If THAT methodology bombs in the marketplace, you'd timidly stick to whatever the largest identifiable mass market is buying. You would make a 6s, for example. And a 39G.

And a packload of your hoary-old financial calcs, which still bring home their bacon.

As I say, just some musings. Nite-nite. :-)

                  
Re: HP Calculators - not what they should be !
Message #6 Posted by Nick on 21 Apr 2001, 12:36 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Glynn

I can understand HP not developing new calculators. But why discontinue a very popular calculator like the 42s? Or are they so popular because they aren't being made anymore? Hmm... I wonder if anybody has information on wether HP42s sales were down the year they discontinued the calculator.

      
Re: HP Calculators - (times change)
Message #7 Posted by Bryan on 21 Apr 2001, 11:16 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Dean L. Miller

I think HP is fighting for a share of a market that has changed. The demographic that they used to cater to was the scientist, engineer and college/grad students in those fields -- that group has, in the main, abandoned the hand-held calculator in favor of the readily available and more user friendly software on personal computers.

Sure, we all still grab for our old favorites (the 41 or 42) when it comes to some simple number crunching......when we put it back into the desk drawer, we experience a bit of a "blast from the past" and remember fondly our first calculator programs and how much easier these great tools made our work......

But when it's all said and done -- for the big jobs -- it's time to put the PC to work.

NOW -- today's calculators -- the 49G.

Without a thought, I grab the 49G for things I'd have spent hours programming a calculator to do back in 1980's. We take that for granted sometimes. I admit, it lacks the old HP styling -- I wish they'd done anything BUT made it new-wave blue and moved the ENTER bar. Bottom line, though, it and the 48 series do more out-of-the-box (no programming) than any of the old calc's I hear lamented here. The hours spent programming Taylor series expansion algorithms and other time-saving functions....they're there for you at the press of a button.

Analogy: The muscle cars of our youth give way to mini-vans and pick-up trucks. A few cherished history-pieces sit in the garage awaiting the weekend drive. One can't help lament the passing of 'the good ol' days'. So to, the land of HP calculators. Maybe that's why we visit this museum...?

~Bryan

            
Re: HP Calculators - (times change)
Message #8 Posted by Marx Pio on 22 Apr 2001, 11:30 a.m.,
in response to message #7 by Bryan

HP calculator dept. has suicidal tendencies... So, like chess playing, it's my move and I moved to WinCE platform. HP Calculators should be kept for our personal museum. B.Dylan said sometime ago, "the times they are a-changin'". Marx Pio

      
Re: HP Calculators - not what they should be !
Message #9 Posted by Ion Abraham (New Mexico USA) on 22 Apr 2001, 7:46 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Dean L. Miller

Hello,

I just thought I'd throw in my two cents worth. I agree with pretty much everything the other people have been saying in response to this posting, especially Glynn's well thought out musing.

I'd just like to point out that HP isn't the company it used to be. Consider the fact that they recently spun off their entire test and measurement division, and gave it the silly name of Agilent (all it suggests is agitated slowness to me, but nevermind). HP is now basically a computer and printer maker for the slightly upscale mass market. It would not surprise me if they somehow divested themselves of the whole calculator division altogether.

It's sad, but hey that's business. What the suits decide really can change a company in fundamental ways. I agree with Glynn that HP no longer makes the hardcore professional tools that used to be the pride of the company. It started when they went from EduCALC to OfficeDepot, but don't get me started on that rant.

They'll have to pry my 41CX "from my cold dead hands."

Cheers,

Ion Abraham Albuquerque, New Mexico

            
Re: HP Calculators - not what they should be !
Message #10 Posted by db (martinez, california) on 22 Apr 2001, 9:37 p.m.,
in response to message #9 by Ion Abraham (New Mexico USA)

dam little is made like it used to be. thats the way it is. has anyone else seen the RetroCalc Programable Calculator site? he sounds like he is doing what Glynn and others were discussing and building the perfect beast. mabye you tech types should all get together and do it so i can buy one. or two. and if you need someone in the testing dept (lets see if this can survive a real bonehead using it), just call.

                  
Re: HP Calculators - not what they should be !
Message #11 Posted by GE on 23 Apr 2001, 6:34 a.m.,
in response to message #10 by db (martinez, california)

Regarding the HP42S, I read somewhere that their sales plummeted at the end of the life of the product. Actually, I bought my HP28S only 6 months after getting the 42, and the 28 was such a new and powerful concept at the time that I felt cheated with the poor little 42. Fortunately, the bin and my wallet were full then. Probably the same happened to many, and the 42 had to fight uphill with gorgeous, large-screen, symbolic capable machines from HP itself.

Regarding the newest machines, keep in mind the incredibly low list price of the 6 or 30, to keep things in perspective. Yes, low-end and cheap, but the price is right.


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