HP Forum Archive 05

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Postion of + - x / keys Message #1 Posted by Chris Randle on 7 Feb 2001, 3:14 p.m. From my deep & extensive research of about half an hour, it would appear that the HP35 in 1972 and all subsequent handhelds up until the HP10C in 1981 had their four function keys in the order / x + -. Suddenly there's a switch to + - x /. 1) Where did this "odd" / x + - come from? It seems natural, to me, to have the + at the lower corner since it's the most likely to be used. 2) The desktops before, during & after these nine years all had + - x /. 3) Surely there must have been a hoo-har in '81 when, after nearly a decade, a fundamental and, by now, "standard" layout was completely altered? Something akin, I'd imagine, to suddenly having a little piddly enter key hidden away somewhere. What? They have? Oh sorry, didn't notice! I cannot find any reference to this in any history. Any info, reminiscences, comments?

Re: Postion of + - x / keys Message #2 Posted by Dan M on 7 Feb 2001, 5:04 p.m., in response to message #1 by Chris Randle Chris: Don't forget, that not only did the "order" change, but the keys themselves moved from one side of the number keys to the other. From my desktop survey today: HP 97: Keys on right side, /x-+ HP 41: Keys on left side, -+x/ HP 42S: Keys on right side, /x-+ This really bugs me when I try to do calculator math without looking, and I get used to one machine, then use one of the others. From my earlier research into the matter, nobody knows why the "switch" was made or whatever. There is some history of key position dating back to manual or electro-mechanical calculators that I don't recall in enough detail to report on. Anyway, if anybody knows more, please enlighten all us curious users. Dan M.

Re: Postion of + - x / keys Message #3 Posted by Doh Evans on 7 Feb 2001, 6:41 p.m., in response to message #2 by Dan M Where is the "equals" key relative to those? -Doh

Re: Postion of + - x / keys Message #4 Posted by Chris Randle on 9 Feb 2001, 4:37 p.m., in response to message #3 by Doh Evans Couldn't tell you. All my HP calcs seem to have a factory fault and are missing their equals key!

Re: Postion of + - x / keys Message #5 Posted by Steve (Australia) on 9 Feb 2001, 8:04 p.m., in response to message #4 by Chris Randle Have a closer look! It hides on: the 2 key in a 41 the 0 key on a 48GX (and probably on 48S, 48SX, 48G, and 48G+) *somewhere* on a 6 And umm, the 38G has one too, but it's called enter! :-)

Re: Postion of + - x / keys Message #6 Posted by Victor on 11 Feb 2001, 2:30 a.m., in response to message #5 by Steve (Australia) It's right out in the open on my HP-28S (on the keyboard on the left side). But it doesn't work right! When I try to do 2+2= (and expect to get 4) it says "+ Error: Too Few Arguments" (Dang!) ;-)

Re: Postion of + - x / keys Message #7 Posted by Kevin Schoedel on 8 Feb 2001, 9:06 a.m., in response to message #2 by Dan M As Chris points out, (almost) all the desktops have the +-x/ order, and (almost) all the calculators have either +-x/ on the right, or /x+- on the left. Note that for 'matching' pairs of models like the HP67 and HP97, the handheld has /x+- and the desktop has +-x/. Most non-HP calculators I've seen have had the right-side +-x/ layout. (A few old ones have the keys in a square, or some other odd variation.) I think this makes sense from the point of view of the evolution of adding machines, beginning with a large "+" on the right, and adding new operations above in the order of ease of mechanical implementation. I assume HP switched their handhelds to this layout to be consistent with everyone else. As for the /x+- layout, last time this came up I speculated that HP put the most 'important' operation, "+", on the 'home' row of the keyboard, that is, across from "5", and the rest of the layout follows: /x should go together, so they're together where they fit, below "+" , and "x" is adjacent to "+" since multiplication is more important and 'closer' to addition than is division.

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