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RPN stack and HP-32sii
Message #1 Posted by Jonathan Hanna on 27 Nov 2000, 10:40 p.m.

I have high interest in purchasing an RPN calculator and I'm leaning towards the HP-32sii. The only thing that concerns me about it is the RPN stack. I had a really quick look at one and got the impression it has a basic x,y,z,t stack. Am I right? I'm fairly new to RPN and I just want to know if it's sufficent for university physics and engineering courses. Should I be concerned?

      
Have no fear
Message #2 Posted by Jim L on 28 Nov 2000, 12:03 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Jonathan Hanna

I got through engineering school plus 20 years working (so far) with a four level stack. I also own a 48G but I prefer the four level stack machines. I like using t as a constant and I don't like finding an unlimited amount of numbers whose meaning I can't remember sitting on my unlimited 48G stack.

      
4 level stack is perfect
Message #3 Posted by Jan on 28 Nov 2000, 12:39 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Jonathan Hanna

Go for one as long as they are available. You never will be limited by the stack. I got my first HP35 in 1973 and it was perfectly sufficient up to my PhD. Jim is right - 4 is the limit of practical use

      
Re: RPN stack and HP-32sii
Message #4 Posted by Steve on 29 Nov 2000, 12:20 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Jonathan Hanna

I've grown very fond of my 28S which is an infinite stack. Also, I often using the column-norm of a 1 row array (28S does handle matrices just as readily as any other data type -- sweet!) simply to generate a sum while still keeping multiple values conveniently stored together.

BUT ...

I still remember my days with a 15C and 41CV, and the sheer simplicity of RPN (just try to enter a 5-parenthesis-deep 90 character equation on an AOS calculator!) hooked me immediately. I collect very multipurpose tools (some say I go overboard at times) but still sometimes wonder if a good 15C (perfectly pocket-sized) might be better then the matrix-crunching fragile book format of the 28.

Most really portable and practical calcs are limited to a 4-stack. Don't buy more than you need. Get used to RPN in a usable format, and try out somebody's higher-priced infinite-stack toy at your convenience. Even if you buy the bigger toy later, the portable and pocket-sized 32 will always have some use when you want a smaller, more portable tool.

      
RPN stack and HP-32sii, some more "options"
Message #5 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 29 Nov 2000, 7:40 a.m.,
in response to message #1 by Jonathan Hanna

A 32 S II is a very nice option for you.

If the HP 41 or HP42S were still in production, they may have been better options for you, as more powerful models; alas they are long gone (except for the used and collector market...)

It is almost sure that you will LOVE 4-level stack RPN once used to it (as I and many others here do). Now, there may be an issue of future "pain" since 4-level stack RPN machines are regrettably headed for extintion. From this bizarre point of view, you may:

a) Avoid 4-level stack RPN, so not to miss in the future what you have not had yet. (Pessimistic view)

b) Hope HP will reintroduce 4-level stack machines in some future, at least as a user selectable mode of operation (Irreal view)

c) Embrace the 4-level stack cause, and keep posting about it (Romantic view)

d) Buy an HP 32 S II, learn and profit from it. Future will say, and as per the famous Keynes quote, "In the long term, we all will be dead" (Practical view)

e) Buy some used, mint condition, HP 42S; and never sleep again, because of fear to wear out or lose such a marvel (Collector view)

f) Buy a HP 48 and use an HP 41 emulator in top of it (Virtual view)

g) Buy two or more HP 32 S II now, so to have a backup if your main machine fails (Reassuring view)

h) Buy a HP 39/40, or similar current model, and lose forever the joy of 4-level stack RPN (HP view)

i) Buy another brand calculator ("I-can't-believe-I-am-writing-this" view)

Sorry if this is too much flaming, specially to welcome a new friend to this forum.

            
Re: RPN stack and HP-32sii, some more "options"
Message #6 Posted by Randy Smith on 29 Nov 2000, 9:54 a.m.,
in response to message #5 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina)

Hey Andres, Your post gave me a chuckle! Randy

            
Re: RPN stack and HP-32sii
Message #7 Posted by bill smith on 29 Nov 2000, 12:30 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina)

thanks Andres for an entertaining choice summary. but RE: a), isn't it better to have loved and lost, than never loved at all? OK, it's only a calculator.

for point of comparison, i am concluding a trade by buying a HP 32sii for a former coworker, as a trade for his HP 41cx. when i originally expressed interest in the 41cx, he said he had never used it except as a RPN/scientific (no programing or expansion). after loaning him one of our lab 32sii calcs to review, he readily agreed to the deal.

my own experience indicates true pocket size is important, as my 15C is my most used calculator. the 41cx will join my 41 oriented collection of stuff--i actually still use a couple programs never ported or duplicated to another platform.

                  
Re: RPN stack and HP-32sii
Message #8 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 29 Nov 2000, 4:04 p.m.,
in response to message #7 by bill smith

Randy: I assume "chuckle" means some laughter, I hope that is the case.

Bill: Yes, it may be better to love and lose than have not tried.

I currently have an HP 41C, which I don't regularly use, mainly because of size. I also have an HP 42, which come from HP's replacement service; so it is almost mint. And (truly!) I don't use it because of fear of irreparable loss!

As a hardwired user of 4-level RPN, I found that the 48/49 series are disorienting, so I ruled them off... On a daily basis, I use an HP LX200 which runs a decent phone and appointment book, Lotus 123 on MS-DOS 5.0 (!) and a GREAT 4-level stack RPN calculator application. I had a LX100, which was stolen , so a few months ago I bought an almost new LX200 from a friend.

As a matter of fact, I bought a 32 S II two years ago to introduce my first daugther (then 14 years old) to 4-level stack RPN. I feel the 32 S II is somewhat limiting with regard to variables and programming, and personally don't like the equation mode too much. But it is very nice, affordable, handy (size), and has a very good set of preprogrammned functions. My daughter learned 4-level RPN in a breeze, now she doesn't want to use any other calculator... Did I do a good thing to her, assuming these models will soon be extinct?

Would you offer the last dinosaur as a pet to your daughter or son? Will him/her miss it when that last one finally dies?

This year I decide to buy a first scientific calc for my second and last daughter. I was unsure about teaching her to use something that may well be not available soon... I refrained to look for another 32 S II (already difficult to find in my country), and settled for a HP 30 S.

A comment on the 30 S: if the keyboard had a better layout and better feeling, I would recommend it for newcomers. The dual display, showing the just used formula and the answer is not a bad approach (even with parentheses); but I would prefer a better way to reuse the last value than to have to press ANS (for Answer) each time... Oh, it is VERY affordable, even not to miss it if lost!

                        
Re: RPN stack and HP-32sii
Message #9 Posted by bill smith on 29 Nov 2000, 5:06 p.m.,
in response to message #8 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina)

i also will endorse the hp200lx as a possible choice for J. Hanna. i have one, which i tend to carry, though more as a laptop. not as handy around the lab as the 15C, but i love the calculator/solver, 123, and DOS ability.

i also have installed emu41, and calc41, and have been able to run legacy programs through them on the 200lx. in fact, it was that purpose which renewed my enthusiasm for the 41C system. i'll probably keep my 41 stuff now; seems ironic since it was my intent to keep the functionality and get rid of the hardware.

                              
Re: RPN stack and HP-32sii
Message #10 Posted by Jonathan Hanna on 29 Nov 2000, 7:35 p.m.,
in response to message #9 by bill smith

Bill, do you know where I could get some more info on the HP-2001x? I've never heard of it before and I don't see it in this site or on HP's.

                                    
HP 200LX info
Message #11 Posted by bill smith on 30 Nov 2000, 10:48 a.m.,
in response to message #10 by Jonathan Hanna

http://www.palmtop.net/

the HP 200LX is out of production, but actively traded. new units occasionally appear on eBay...prices are high. reconditioned units are sold through the above site, which also has FAQ links, and a great collection of software.

note that the 95LX and 100LX are similar in functionality, and might be a better value, depending on the features you are seeking. for me, a shirt pocket calc (15C), and briefcase unit (200LX) make a perfect tandem. the 41C was a good cross-over, but now is just for fun.

            
Re: RPN stack and HP-32sii, some more "options"
Message #12 Posted by Jonathan Hanna on 29 Nov 2000, 7:32 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina)

What makes the HP-41c or the HP-42s better than the HP-32sii? Should I look for used models of one of those instead of the HP-32sii? Also, I enjoyed your response too Andres!

                  
Re: RPN stack and HP-32sii, some more "options"
Message #13 Posted by Jim L on 29 Nov 2000, 8:09 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by Jonathan Hanna

Something you might want to do is to go to the compare features page which is linked off the home page and select the 41c, 42s and 32s to get an idea of the differences.

The 41c is very cool because you can hook it up to a network of devices including tapes, floppies, printers etc. You can also hook up a barcode scanner, a mag card reader and other goodies - but keep in mind that all this stuff is years old so it may take you a lot longer to track it all down than it's worth to you.

The 200lx is also no longer made (I think??) and is a pocket DOS computer with a calculator program on it. It's powerful but I never felt as comfortable with it as a "real" calc. Because it is a computer, it may not be allowed on tests where a calc would be.

The 42S is a great choice as well, but also no longer made and you'll probably have to pay twice the price of the (new) 32SII to get it (used). I feel more comfortable programming my 42 than my 32, but that's probably because the 42 is more like my 41. The 32 is a great manual use calculator, but I've never made the transition to programming it. That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it, it's just different and I've been too lazy when I have 41/42s around. Maybe someone else can get more detailed on 42 advantages if you're willing to search and pay for one. Do you think you might be?

                        
Re: RPN stack and HP-32sii, some more "options"
Message #14 Posted by Ron Ross on 29 Nov 2000, 8:27 p.m.,
in response to message #13 by Jim L

I have to agree with Jim L (Lawson?, if so, not many can argue on even footing with). The 42s is the best pocket calc ever made, period. Someone is selling on this site for $150 and if I only had one, I would pay this price. However, I have two and protect both at home also. The Hp32s is still readily available, decent to use and not nearly so expensive. However if number crunching is needed the 42s has so much greater capability and memory that it is hard to compare the two other than RPN and scientific functions. Buy the 32 now and a 42 if needed or as soon as an opportunity presents itself. I have a couple of 48's and use like desktop machines (all functions and conversions needed, but bulky to take to field, but are so cheap that I do anyway)

                  
Re: RPN stack and HP-32sii, some more "options"
Message #15 Posted by Paul Brogger on 30 Nov 2000, 7:37 p.m.,
in response to message #12 by Jonathan Hanna

The 42S has about 4Kb of memory, a two-line, dot-matrix display, a piezo-electric beeper, an infrared output capability, and many more commands/functions. The 32S has 390 bytes of memory, a single-line alpahanumeric display, and fewer commands/functions. Both have identical overall size, weight, and # of keys. (The 42S keyboard is the simplest, the older 32S keyboard next, and the double-shifted 32SII keyboard is the most complex.)

I like the readability of the big characters on the 32S display, and the nifty variable-name interface. (The 26 variables/registers are named A-Z, and are very easy to access.) The two-line display of the 42S can be harder to read, but it's nice having two lines, too.

The reality for me is that I'm a computer programmer, and I don't spend any time programming my calculators, so I find the 32S a far more practical unit for day-to-day use. (I do prefer the 32S to the newer 32SII, but that's just the simplicity of the keyboard -- they're essentially the same, otherwise.)

            
Re: RPN stack and HP-32sii, some more "options"
Message #16 Posted by Paul Brogger on 30 Nov 2000, 7:50 p.m.,
in response to message #5 by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina)

Andres:

To your very entertaining post I would add:

j) Get the calculator you want, buy spare parts in the form of any other Pioneers you can find, and don't be afraid to take 'em apart to fix one. (Mr. Fix-it view)

                  
Re: RPN stack and HP-32sii, some more "options"
Message #17 Posted by Andrés C. Rodríguez (Argentina) on 1 Dec 2000, 6:23 a.m.,
in response to message #16 by Paul Brogger

Paul: I agree with your Mr. Fix approach. I had tried to open my first HP 42 to clean up the display (I think some of the LCD polarizer shifted, when my calc was dropped to the floor, and left a very rare dark zone on the display; it doesn´t seem like dust). I was unable to do a good job and finally swapped it at the HP exchange service then available. Now (really) I am overprotecting my current 42S! I liked your articles on repairing Pioneers, but read them late. I may still buy a 20S just for disassembly, but have little time to invest... BTW, the HP42 has 8 KBy memory. Andrés

      
Re: RPN stack and HP-32sii
Message #18 Posted by Tom Lianza (NH USA) on 9 Dec 2000, 1:10 p.m.,
in response to message #1 by Jonathan Hanna

I own nearly every HP RPN calculator made. I bought my first one in '71-72. In my opinion, the HP32sII represents the best balance in a pocket sized, non graphing scientific. I own 4 32s. I have one to carry and one at work and in the home office (the forth is in an unopened box). It is easy to progam, has great conversions, and has all the math functions that I have ever needed. I can't use the 49 on a day to day basis, although it is a fine machine. It's just hell to program. The 39g was a real disappointment. It really emphasizes learning activities rather than actual programming capablities. The 48gx is superior (in my opinion) to the 49g primarily due to documentation , features and available programs.

If you don't need the graphing capablilites get the 32. If you need a graphic machine, I'd get a 48gx.


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